at this stage are we even sure there is a list?

i tend to agree that they will put this right. But I have doubts now as this has been going on now for months and I call bullshit that they couldn't have details of a proper programme with dates etc by now. Its simply not acceptable for them not to have done that and as kpg says feels like they are too busy with new customers etc care about the existing ones.

Date: 20-07-2016 15:46:32
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: GB inserts ghosting/moving, clearcoat cracking...

Hi Mic,

Thanks for the pictures. We are investigating these problems with the clear coat. We will add your name to the list of customers with this problem. Can you give me the game serial number?

Best regards,
Chas Siddiqi
Stern Pinball Tech. Support
800 542-5377

... this was last time i got news from their "program replacement"

"since Avengers NIB"

only for that, you deserve a big respect (lol inside)

Stern promised to swap all play fields this month

told to my distri in Okt.

so lets see if this will happen or they hope the market forget this.

they have now the 2nd new game since GB
and it does not care any new sellers if YOU have a problem.

thats how Gary do the business.

do you believe we will see a lot of new PF the next days at pinside?

how long ago did your distro hear about that?

Jeezz..and didn`t your distributor tell you that the next Stern title will not be a music related pin (according to Gary Stern)?? And now we have Aerosmith
Maybe you should`t believe everything your distributor is telling you all day...

you are right

but i know that my distri swapped all machines at his own costs for his clients
this machines are now on route

he is very lucky about stern.

I'm sad for stern. Best hit they have had in a while, and it's plagued with this.

What's even more sad is their overall lack of engagement with their new bread and butter

Gary Stern is no better than a used car salesman who will spew any BS he can to try and get people forget the real issues and pony up more cash. He does NOT care about customers or quality or ANYTHING other than padding his pockets with more money by selling overpriced defective games.

Sad for Stern? It is their own fault for trying to cut costs and cheap out on every physical element of the game on a theme they knew would be a huge hit and to not be addressing the problems directly with those customers as a priority and keeping them informed is BS.

Read above KPG was promised a swap by Gary Stern himself, yet he hasn't heard a single thing other than the usual radio silence, we are working in it "stay tuned".

Feel sad for Stern?? I feel sad for all the GB owners with defective playfields & board sets being left in the dark when they are going to get their issues resolved.

16 Games/66 balls on a Premium, playfield date stamped Dec-07/2016.

gb_playfield_date (resized).jpg

gb_playfield_starting (resized).jpg

No reason to feel sad for Stern. Since we as buyers picked up the pace in buying machines, all they did was reduce cost and increase price. They filled their pockets with lots of our money as far as I can tell.

I hope for them that BM66 will not be a very bad seller in the second hand market or all the flippers will not buy the LE's anymore unseen. That has happened before and it will happen again. Stern does not realise it, but the fact that the machines sell so well second hand is what gets them the sales. If that is not the case anymore they will struggle again.

I am not in this hobby to make money (and I cancelled my BM66LE also) but I also do not want to lose 1500-2000 euro on every NIB I buy. I like buying new but will not anymore. I am joining the boycot until quality is up to par and price is normal again.

Sheesh!
New game comes out….BAM!…Sold Out!
Bitch & Moan

Next game comes out…(cost a fortune)…BAM! …Sold Out!
Bitch & Moan

Next game RUMORED to come out…BAM! …Sold Out!
Bitch & Moan On Ready

Yeah, we're showing them!

That's what I'm saying Ted. All this bitching and moaning seems like nothing more than pissing in the wind.

Not that it's not justified it seems to have no effect at all. There is a pinball world outside of Pinside that doesn't care about this stuff I suppose

I would have ordered AS already had I not been screwed over on my GBLE and promised a new playfield that seems like it will never show. I am not alone if you read the comments here as well.

On a side note, I discussed this situation with a person that has previously advised me on Defective Products and Consumer Rights and it was extremely positive. I was advised not to go into too much detail yet here obviously. I sent a final email request to Gary Stern and Patrick Powers regarding the promised playfield replacement program last week, and also had my distributor, Trent @ Tilt send one on his behalf as well.

Once the ball gets rolling I won't be providing any updates on the forum for obvious reasons. The rest of the communication will be handled by the legal entities involved. I may, however, work with them to compile a list of affected customers in order to expedite the process.

I have many DM's I have received on this asking to be part of the legal proceeding that has not even begun yet. I kindly ask to not DM me this info, but await some sort of official communication on the matter as I can't do anything about it yet and won't spend any time on it until I am advised to do so.

Something to note that I was told.. the acknowledgment by Stern Pinball Inc. on video and in writing about the defects. That is huge

Nice ghosting even on a December playfield

Does how their warranty is stated have anything to do with this?

Thats ridiculous! Second December playfield with ghosting ive seen. Wait till a BM66 SLE guy post his $15k game is ghosting!

No.

Manufacturers defect is a manufactures defect, regardless of warranty.

I hope they are ok with that game dropping big time in value then, and waiting who knows how long (or ever) to get a replacement playfield.

100% accurate and I'm guilty somewhat myself, I was fully aware of the problems with SMVE & GBLE, but as it seemed the playfield issues had been sorted I ordered a BM66 LE, however I will not be buying any more NIB from Stern at this point, not because I can't afford too or don't want to

I might like a SW & would love a JAWs pin. I would just do what I can to help out other pinheads like the GB owners who Stern seem to be leaving in the dark, if we don't start coming together then at some point the lucky ones this round won't be lucky next time round and we will all be telling each other we are idiots

Sometimes you have to stand together, Mr Spock said it best "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few" so I can go without anymore NIBs Sterns if it helps give them a wake up slap and sort their shit out.

My premium has the same playfield date but I haven't played it yet. I just took off the glass to check the playfield and plugged it in for the first time. No ghosting yet that I can see. I was inclined to let the playfield cure for another month, doubt if it makes any difference for ghosting but maybe would reduce dimpling?

Wow ghosting at that date....No wonder they are not swapping them all out now they do not have the fix and they sure in the heck don't want to have to swap multiple times.

They aren't getting a replacement PF for a tiny amount of ghosting. Neither am I. Nor would I want to go through the pain in the ass to replace it.

Your situation was totally different. You are getting a newly populated PF

Is that a large crack / score mark on the Scoleri insert, as well as the ghosting? Looks way bigger than the usual micro scratches.

Yea we really have Stern over a barrel! I don't think they can take much more of this.

Dimpling is going to happen regardless... it's not a big deal anyway

Let's hope it doesn't get any worse. Looks like it can still happen even on later PF's. That's disappointing.

I work for a distrib. but had the owner send my playfield photos to Stern. Apparently I was approved for a swap in early December and they were given my private email and mailing address and was added to a "list".
Haven't heard a peep since.
If December playfields are doing it still, I hope I'm a little ways down the list.
What a nightmare.

Earlier on I stated the reason they were NOT making a public announcement about it was for legal reasons and exposure. Yet two lawyers over here shot me down and said "that wouldn't matter". Ice and Rob I believe (...they ARE lawyers right? Darn ballbusters )

Of course Gary's remarks matter... nothing like a recorded "confession" of the issue to move things along. See I knew I was right

Sure you can win a case *without* a "confession" but that recorded statement makes it a hell of a lot easier. I was surprised when he made that announcement actually...any lawyer worth his salt would advise his client NOT to make any statements pertaining to something that could become a legal matter.

.

He may have seen the BM66 with the deep dimples and divots in the magnet... but if you are hoping for the wood to possibly dry and harden a bit more I doubt if a month would do it.

Not really sure why his magnet is so beat up already. Maybe they got a batch of them in with a softer alloy somehow.

Win what?

Stern ain't Apple or Tesla. There aren't millions of plaintiffs and big $$$ recoveries here.

Stern has agreed to fix the "defective" PF's so what are the damages?

A lawyer is going to take some case here on a % based recovery? Seriously doubt it. And I wouldn't waste a penny on legal fees to pursue this matter.

Now IF they don't remedy the defect like they said they would then its game on. Kpg is leading the way!

I can't wait to see the lawsuit filed for dimpled PF's and ghosted inserts.

I never mentioned money... in this case the "win" would be actually getting them to fix the problem. I also think they'll come through eventually but if not... not everybody will quietly roll over.

You are indeed consistent though... so far you have loudly advised against any legal action against Predator, John P and now this issue affecting a 9k game. I don't think they'll get anything back financially either but they seem to enjoy trying to corral Kevin and JP to get their pound of flesh

It's a good thing not everybody thinks like you do or a lot of lawyers would be painting houses right now

I suspect dimpling will be described by Stern as "normal wear" as they have always done in the past. Unless it's really egregious and then they simply send a blank PF to mollify the customer. I've seen that happen quite a few times.

But yeah - I can see a group of customers threatening them with legal action to get them to send populated PF's if they fail to implement their "program". Or whatever they called it. Heck people were already living with the fact that Stern gets to decide if their PF is properly ruined enough for the replacement program. Now the worry is when they'll get around to it. I think they'll take their sweet time.

I did see that. That did not look like normal dimpling that I have seen in other photos.

Lawsuit for dimpled playfields? No one ever mentioned that.

Lawsuit for chipping and ghosting playfields? Yes.

Dimples are like suing a car manufacturer for normal wear and tear like worn tires and brakes. Ghosting and chipping would be like suing for shoddy paintwork that chips and fades prematurely, significantly damaging value due to premature failure due to manufacturing defect.

Another thing- there are attorneys who specialize in all areas of the law. Ice and Rob specialize in specific areas not pertinent to this case of the laws protecting consumers, and are likely very experienced and educated in whatever specific laws they deal with.

Look at Lemon Law attorneys.. could they give legal advice on a medical malpractice case? Maybe, but I would take it with a grain of salt.. and they would tell you the same.

I value Stern as a company anywhere from $40-50m, give or take a few million.

There's plenty of incentive for an attorney to take a case like this, as they will attach legal fees onto any suit filed. That's not even a question.

Consumers always get the short end of the stick, and some are fine with that and will come on here and defend the company they buy products from and that's fine. Maybe they haven't been affected and that's good for them. But for those who have been, I'm going to once again see that something is done and made right for us, and that these promises made by Stern actually come through.

As for anyone buying a NIB Stern, just know there has been no evidence they have fixed the playfield issue. Best of luck.

for this issue in the EU its a no brainer... they either pony up and fix it, or pony up and refund it.

Kpg has a point, I don't know much about consumer protection laws

Generally I know a lawsuit has to be brought in good faith to recover hourly fees. And the system is obviously set up to benefit us lawyers. . Probably true in Illinois?

I've got a client going through a will contest, got her after the husband died or there never would have been one in the first place. I would have properly stacked wills and trusts etc

The other side is churning and burning hours hoping that even if they lose on the merits of the case, which they should, that they will be awarded attorney fees anyhow. It's part of our probate code.

My client has spent $385k so far and we still have several depos to go and trial in July! 20 mill estate

Regardless, I'll be happily cheering you guys on. I suspect Stern knows that 2+2 = 4 and remedying an admitted defect is a given. ?? No point in just shoveling cash to the lawyers here

Wondering if you could establish venue outside of Illinois? Buying from the distro not Stern direct so should be able to. That would certainly hurt!

My Lasagna is ready! Time to take it out of the oven! Yum

Surely Stern is doing their replacements on a regularly scheduled basis. There is no way they would sent notices to everyone at the same time and have them all stacked up to put your old parts on a new playfield. Its doubtful they are sending out new playfields with all new mechanisms on them. What would they do with your old mechanisms? Thats a lot of money to throw away, and they cannot put your old used parts on a new playfield to install in a brand new game for another buyer.
So its going to take them awhile to get everyone scheduled and repopulate a new playfield with your old parts. I would certainly want to be on the end of this program opposed to the front of the line to see how the new playfields work out for others first.
I am just glad I got my refund on this game when problems started to show and nobody was getting answers. I hope all of you who stayed with it eventually get your games all fixed to the proper quality level that they should have been in the first place.

I feel your pain, and im not saying this is the case, but sometimes those that yell the loudest. get moved to the end of the line.

Also, i believe the program just started, we just finished New Years a week ago, weather has sucked, vacation, and end of year shit has to be done on business.

I wouldnt be surprised you are on some list, just not up to speed, and with no info.

I believe youll be whole, eventually.

Powers said it has been delayed.... no time frame given. but thats what one person hears... who knows if this is even
consistent information.
yeah key word there is.. eventually

Sorry am I missing something here? Apart from anyone who has an 'unplayable' game what is the big deal about the wait? Now if the replacement plan is a sham ok but I'm looking at it more as an opportunity to play the death out of mine and then have a mint game again once the novelty has worn off. Even if you've been given months to live, you still can play. I'm picturing grown men watching a ball go around a playfield and when it passes a ghosted insert raising their arms and walking away. Are the ghosted inserts diverting the natural path of the ball? Does it stop scoring or completing modes? Again am I missing something here.

Oh I forgot to mention. I read on pinside complaints of stern sending out dud replacements. Could the delay be that they wanted to ensure the problem is solved? Is it solved? No lets send out numerous pfs NOW and waste my time. The next gripe if and when they are sent out will be, its not easy replacing these things or they have not been play tested an switches don't work. Fellas I can see this coming a mile away. Now lets hear from REAL ghostbusters owners only

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