Wow that sucks. I think Stern still has problems with the new Spike system they haven't sorted out yet. I got my new node 8 board in last week and now my right flipper locks on. Game worked fine for about a day. So I've lost the subway coil, the bottom pop bumper coil, and now the lower right flipper because of bad boards. Now they think it's a bad CPU... will be the last time I ever buy a new Stern. This game has been nothing but a pain in the ass.

It does suck. GB was also a dream theme for me, a friend got one, I loved the music tracks, layout & artwork was phenomenal but the damn ghosting issue was inexcusable, especially because they replaced the ghosting play field with another one that ghosted again within a few games.

Meh, it was no big deal. I had a replacement on hand, and Stern sent me a new coil. It was just a 20 minute inconvenience.

I agree, its no big deal. This is why I believe pinball is not really designed for home ownership. Pinball from any manufacturer is trouble and they break continually. If you want a game that's trouble free, then play pinball on a console. It is not a hobby for the faint hearted that's for sure.

Agree 100% these are designed to make money on commercial locationd.. home owners expect too much and are picky

"too much" !?

home users just expect a minimum for the price we've put in these things...

and yes, i know what you're thinking right now, and than i'll reply : no more recent NIB (untested/uncomplete/unreliable pins) for me

You forgot whiny and bitchy

So the play field issues are clearly a problem but my ghostbusters has been trouble free for several months - premium. great game.

Wrong answer. As an operator, a collector, and a technician, these are most certainly NOT designed to make money on location. If they were, they wouldn't break every couple of weeks.

They are designed for one reason, and only one reason.... to make money for the manufacturer.

Yea it sucks, but if it's a dream theme don't give up on it too quickly. Just don't be the guinnea pig either. GB will be in production for a very long time; 2-3 years+. If it's a dream theme, let stern hash out the issues and code over time then see if the issues have been addressed, if so yay! If not, then ya stern sucks move onto the next title.

So many of us love jumping head first in the deep end on these new titles only to find out the deep end is shallow waters. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there really is no benefit to buying new pins early on (unless you're an operator), you're only setting yourself up for grief and frustration. I speak from experience both in buying, reading, and word of mouth. I've been in the stern NIB portion of the hobby for 10+ years. There are very few Cinderella stories that come from buying early; don't try to be that lottery winner unless you have endless patience and an endless budget. And BM66 is no exception and shaping up to be the same as every other pin manufactured; prictag does not equal better designs, faster support, quicker code completion, nor better QC.

There are plenty of good proven titles to still be had NIB if one must buy, and with most the issues/quirks addressed (MET, TWD, GOT, SMVE to name a few).

I have been a lucky lottery winner so far.

Loving my GBLE with zero issues other than a very tiny sliver of ghosting on Tobin insert.

It's a great pin. Huge fun factor!

As for Stern, generally agree with Skb, best to wait on anything newly minted, not just Stern pinball.

But they do a pretty damn good job overall and have excellent service if there is an issue, communication issues aside

Played a GB pro on location last week at a place with 15 games in pristine condition and all were well maintained. All worked 100% except GB and scored 1.3B, with Slimer not registering. Sucks that all Slimer did was hover in front of ramp. This is a big problem and reinforces my decision to hold off considering GB pro for a lot longer. I understand and expect downtime, even broke 2 machines while there. But Slimer was known to break right out of the gate and still hasn't been fixed right.

Ive had issues, sure, but some I fixed, others had help, as well as help from Stern.

I couldnt be happier with my game and Purchase, even with these issues!

I certainly respect if some of these issues are not part of what someone "wants" when they buy a new game.
and certainly Respect that you wont buy a game, unless its perfect, or meets your level of such.

I know my Samsung phone had an issue, my programmers Apple had an issue, all my cars, homes, etc have issues,
I kinda gotta go along with them and fix them. I hate that too.

I just personally, could not give them up, say no, or never. I couldnt slander a company because I wanted something and they
failed to meet my personal standards...

I dont know, I guess Im crazy...maybe others are right...to hell with everyone if they dont make a game at the price I want, the
features I want, the code I want, and the perfection I want.

Except for that Stern deliberately targets the home market. LE editions, SLEs, premiums, and home editions are all 100% geared for the home buyer. If Stern doesn't want to deal and adapt to accommodate for the home buyer, then they shouldn't target them. If they are going to sell to the home, their products should be adapted for that purpose.

And if something is breaking in the home, where it gets MUCH less wear and tear, then your statement is even more messed up. These games need to be much more durable to meet the demands of location play as well. Every issue a game has hurts its ability to earn.

Right now, Stern's games are built poorly for either environment.

Ohh really. Well my HUO GB would be making zero fucking dollars in an arcade right now for the past three weeks. Let me know how many operators would be cool with that...

If yours are breaking every couple weeks, you have terrible luck, really rough players, or extremely heavy use. I help a guy out with his route and we have way more issues with JJP machines than any of the Sterns. The Sterns DO break occasionally, but NOT every couple weeks. I think I replaced maybe three parts in the last 12 months? A Metallica Premium magnet board, a GoT switch, and the GB coil I just mentioned (and that one wasn't technically on location yet).

Exactly. Very disappointing that Stern had these PF issues (ghosting), and there's no question that it has cost them some sales. But if they prove that they have fixed the issue going forward, and this is a pin that you like and a theme that you love, there is no reason not to get one later, when convinced the ghosting issue has been fixed.

So many of us love jumping head first in the deep end on these new titles only to find out the deep end is shallow waters.

Ha! Great quote.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there really is no benefit to buying new pins early on (unless you're an operator), you're only setting yourself up for grief and frustration. I speak from experience both in buying, reading, and word of mouth. I've been in the stern NIB portion of the hobby for 10+ years. There are very few Cinderella stories that come from buying early; don't try to be that lottery winner unless you have endless patience and an endless budget.

I think there are probably only two reasons that people buy a newly announced pin right out of the gate: 1) It's a new pin: there are many things that go along with being a new pin, such as a highly desirable theme, great art, unique layout, code/rules are done by a favorite software designer (Lyman) or simply the fact that it's something new and you are tired of your current collection; 2) They think it will be the next Tron LE and they can actually make money on it.

I think #2 is a thing of the past for the most part with these high prices, and the number of people buying with the intent of making a profit is now very low.

#1 is largely a matter of discipline and someone's own comfort level regarding how long they are willing to wait for mature code, confidence in quality control etc. and how badly they want a new pin (based on theme, etc).

And BM66 is no exception and shaping up to be the same as every other pin manufactured; prictag does not equal better designs, faster support, quicker code completion, nor better QC.

I would disagree to a small extent. Personally, any pin where Lyman is doing the code I'm going to be willing to take more of a chance on ordering it knowing that the code will be good....eventually. Pick your poison: with someone like Dwight, you are going to get a pin that is probably finished code wise pretty early on, but it's not going to be as good as what Lyman does. Lyman tends to take quite awhile to get the game where he wants it, but the payoff is almost always worth it. Which goes to your point: still not worth buying even a Lyman coded pin on day 1.

There are plenty of good proven titles to still be had NIB if one must buy, and with most the issues/quirks addressed (MET, TWD, GOT, SMVE to name a few).

This is true enough, but how many collectors either currently own one of those titles or has already owned them and sold them?

I've owned and sold MET, GOT, and SM, and currently own TWD. So if I want to mix up my lineup because I'm bored with it, I'm much more inclined to order the brand new shiny pin even knowing code will not be done.

Bottom line: yes, it's certainly smarter to wait it out. But many will choose not to be that disciplined. After all, it's a new TOY!

Since these are commercial machines, they're actually MEANT to be played hard and often and NOT break continually. Since home use games are played considerably less than on location, a home game should be relatively trouble free. No operator or homeowner is going to be happy about their game breaking after 40 plays.

I think you are mistaken.

Rob

You are the exception rob but you're still not buying BM66 blind AND lymans track record has more than proven itself that there are safer waters when buying a pin you know he will he working on til the end.

BDK would disagree, unless you count B'66 as "getting BDK right." BDK is still a boring mess, but maybe that's the Lonnie influence? Wasn't Lyman the lead on that, too?

BDK is 100% Lyman.

BDK is pretty much the only pin people can point to that Lyman did not hit out of the park code wise. Needless to say, he's got a pretty good batting average.

At the end of the day, BDK is pretty well coded. Most of its flaws are beyond his control.

Put lightning flippers on BDK and open the outlanes and it's a blast.

They're serious. About profit. And releasing a fair amount of games each year. About what else, I don't exactly know yet.

No need to curse /swear mate... huo is a falicy ..i would rather buy a sited machine due to less plays compared to the thrashing they get in a home environment

not entirely agreeing here.

of course they break, but we have seen, a LOT more than the usual amount of issues, than we have had or expected before..... quality has gone down hill, and prices have gone up.... home collectors, and owners have a right to decent quality, much like it was before....
and its not an excuse to slip up on the quality either.... just because people think they are manufactured to put out in the field to make money.

I don't disagree at all. Just pointing out that, while he's the best Stern has currently, he's not infallible. Fingers crossed BDK is his only embarrassment in recent history and B'66 turns out awesome.

Meh. Can't get past the game slowing teeter-totter and worthless, cheap coffee can "toy."

With all the different threads regarding VE potential, I remember a few comments about BDK VE. These quickly become laughable at best as most dislike BDK so why do BDK VE?

Well they essentially made BDK VE 66 and it sold out at 15 large. Now that's laughable

Got my GBPREM refund check for $6700 in the mail today. Unless Stern releases Tron VE at CES, or Pulp Fiction, guess I have some extra money in the bank. I'll still drop quarters in it on location, and I have multiple options, but I will be glad the problems with it are not mine to deal with.

Stern can also suck it for raising the minimum price, even on distro inventory, what a crock of sh*t

So it's January, anyone has heard anything from Stern on the replacement program? About a half year ago the first issues were reported. Are we still confident that this is worked on?

A half year!!!

unbelievable how long

i know only that distributors have changed games at there own costs and this games are now on route

With a one year guarantee, I just do not know when it's time to take any legal action?

In USA only 90 days what i know

In Europe 1 years
and for all problems from the beginning 2 years

i thought i read a few pages back, someone got a replacement pf.

I don't think the playfield even has a warranty against ghosting. Even if it did, you would spend more in attorney fees than what you could just buy a new playfield for lol. Stern has already said that they will replace people's play fields that are bad, so just chill and be patient instead of threatening legal action. Stern is probably just as pissed that it happened as you are. They will fix your playfield, Gary even said so.

True. Now my gb has had over 2000 games played, no coil locks, no centre drains, no switch problems, no ramp issues, no major airballs, no this game is too hard, no hissy fits, yes ghosting. So based on my experience I can declare that stern products are 100% mechanically and electrically fault free. Now we know this is not the case, but people here are making out like this is an inferior product based on how many people? I don't know the number, does anyone really? And how many units sold? Poll all the tz owners and ops from release date to this very day and see how a Bally game stacks up. What about the Bally SS drop target bricking issue that was never really sorted out?? I've had many tz issues, but consider all manageable with my tech knowledge and came into this hobby knowing the risks.

These things in reality are not designed or built to high tolerances and by design pretty mediocre with what we have available today. Would you buy a car with such technology and workmanship?

What I was basically eluding to is, don't go into pinball ownership if you like living in the ideal world because it ain't gonna happen. If you're going to rely on reliability, you're misguided, if you're going to rely on a tech, then its going to cost you a fortune and/or frustrate the hell out of you. Most problems I have read here are part and parcel of pinball, the major ones are the far and few and do not even make up a sizable minority in the scheme of things

You are correct, but the only way to stop this, of it is the case, is for consumers to stop buying the product. I hate Apple, no ipads or iphones since number 2 in my household.

But point take thanks

I don't think there is a correct time frame, but please keep us posted on how you go in the courts. You starting may help others to follow suit.

Did Gary say that, I did not hear anything, any statement... Just hearsay. Did Gary call you? I did not get a call. Nothing, not even that my complaint was received....
The replacement strategy is not clear to me. I also read the post of the guy that got a replacement and that it was an old field with the spelling error. I still want to believe and work on trust, but time is running out. That's what's troubling me.
It is a lot of trust for a 9K machine. A legal letter will not be that expensive and will force them to reply.

as mentioned, im not sure any of the warranty, or fine print, does say the PF even has a guarantee.
its more like the selling of defective machine, that regardless of warranty, should be replaced or hey, even refunded....

but from earlier posts it does seem the plan was to get the ball rolling early this year, with regards to the replacement PFs.

so lets see what happens this month.

Yes Gary did say that, there's even a video on YouTube where he talks about it. I don't blame you for being concerned though for sure. I don't know exactly what route you need to take to get someone's attention, but I would probably start with my distributor and if that don't work I would be blowing the phones up at Stern and and emailing the hell out of them. I don't like being ignored when I have a problem either so I understand your frustration. If you happen to live close enough I'd drive to the factory if I had to, to get someone's attention. I'm sure someone on here can probably point you in the right direction on what to do.

Status update of my trashed GBLE playfield:

Was originally told October by Gary Stern himself.. then was told November possibly.. now Patrick Powers latest email he wont give me a time frame and now just says "It has been pushed back".

Awesome.

Stern is giving the run around and might be hoping this shit will die off quietly. NOPE. Not going to happen.

I am considering taking the legal route at this point. I would want to this to help all people affected by this, as it seems no one with a GBLE has had Stern make this right with them. They seem to be more focused on selling and releasing new games, then making it right with customers who already purchased their defective products.

If they think they can pull this shit - then they will learn quickly there are some customers who won't easily disappear, thats for DAMN sure.

Sounds like they either don't have a real fix identified, or like you say would rather just keep pumping out new games to sell instead. Maybe a nice class action lawsuit would be appropriate to get their attention?

(I don't have a horse in this particular race, but it really rubs me the wrong way the sh*t that Stern is pulling recently).

I'm still waiting for things to get moving on my GBLE playfield replacement too. It's starting to get really old playing this waiting game. There's absolutely NO REASON why a manufacturer defect should take so long to correct other than that Stern simply doesn't care. There's absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

Holy crap guys....wtf!!!! They're seemingly putting good new playfields into Premiums right now...sooooooooo why aren't some of those good playfields ready to rock in your game? Is it cuz Trudeau has to sign them all? I'm not sure if you guys care about the signature (I wouldn't) ...but could you get them to swap your playfield w/ a new Premium one?

I have gone as far as to email Gary and ask for Stern Pinball Inc. to buy back my GBLE at the full retail price and ship it to them at their cost, because I was sold a lemon.

I absolutely do not feel like this is an outrageous request whatsoever.

There has to be some risk to buyers of their new games - if they get crap playfields .. GOOD LUCK getting Stern to replace them. They are great at calling you and telling you what you want to hear, but not delivering on the promises.

Not happy. I really want to pull the trigger on AS Pro right now, but sorry- I can't put more money in their bank account when they can't even deliver a quality product and then stand behind it. Total bullshit if you ask me.

Oh, they care- they care to pump out new machines and sweep the playfield defect issue under the rug so it doesnt affect sales moving forward.. that's what I gather from this.

I was happy when Gary personally called me.. and I gave it months... and now nothing. Now it just feels like a PR move to get us to shut up for a while.. Gary.. if you are reading this.. no more calls man... unless it is to tell me replacement playfield is on its way or that you will buy back my lemon GBLE!

I have been told as of early December that my Pro (with a couple ghosted inserts and drain chipping, and a few new ghosting inserts since I got my name into the system) would be replaced with a new fully populated playfield, and am standing by for a date for it to arrive... my dealer will be doing the swap. Hoping to hear soon, but I am playing and enjoying the game in the meantime and not worrying about wear and tear anymore on those problem areas. Will let you all know how it goes when it happens.