(Topic ID: 252691)

Hey Guys! No System 6 Interlock Switch - Unable to Access Diagnostics

By Pecos

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Pecos
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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GE 631 Flash! (resized).png
GE 631 LED Replacement (resized).png
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#1 4 years ago

I thought I must be missing something at first, but after some searching I'm thinking that there really is a problem. As I understand it, all System 6 Williams pins had coin door interlock switches and the door must be open to access the diagnostics. There is no interlock switch on my Flash and I cannot get into diagnostics - pretty important if I want to route this game.

It looks like this game got little play which makes me wonder if it was played with factory settings and diagnostics never accessed:

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System 6 MPU with custom ROMS?

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No interlock switch!

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I will be needing to access the diagnostics now to configure the game and then monthly to get bookkeeping, so a remote switch on or near the coin door is a must.

I would guess that the switch might have been removed at some point but there are no detached wires and no holes where the interlock switch bracket should have been mounted. It's as if it left the factory this way. Any insight what might be going on here?

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

I thought I must be missing something at first, but after some searching I'm thinking that there really is a problem. As I understand it, all System 6 Williams pins had coin door interlock switches and the door must be open to access the diagnostics. There is no interlock switch on my Flash and I cannot get into diagnostics - pretty important if I want to route this game.
It looks like this game got little play which makes me wonder if it was played with factory settings and diagnostics never accessed:
[quoted image]
System 6 MPU with custom ROMS?
[quoted image]
No interlock switch!
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I will be needing to access the diagnostics now to configure the game and then monthly to get bookkeeping, so a remote switch on or near the coin door is a must.
I would guess that the switch might have been removed at some point but there are no detached wires and no holes where the interlock switch bracket should have been mounted. It's as if it left the factory this way. Any insight what might be going on here?

Diagnostic switch/setting menu not functioning:
IJ4 plun is connected incorrectly:
Move plug over to the left 1 pin.
Check diagnostic function.

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#3 4 years ago

Oh my gosh @pintec!! You’re a genius! Tears of joy are running down my face!

You are right. Such an obvious mistake and yet the old eyes ain’t what they used to be. I could have spent hours trying to figure that one out.

Thanks so much! I am able to get into diagnostics mode and should be able to get Flash out on route this week, thanks to your observant observation.

#4 4 years ago

For informational purposes, the switch isn't needed to *enter* diagnostics. If the switch is closed, however, your changes won't save. I don't think the game even knows whether the switch is open or not; the switch directly disables writing to the 5101 CMOS ram when closed.

#5 4 years ago

Another silly question/mistake that I have posted about SS problems. zacaj answered my first stupid question. This is my second. I get 12 a year, right?

I want to share another problem that I found when configuring Flash. I went into the setup menu and changed all of the settings to my preferences. I had changed setting #30 to '1' and #31 to '5'. Then the game would never stop spitting out balls. The ball number on the display showed 5 then 6 then 7 then 8. Well you get the idea - no game over. Can't route it and make money like that!

mystic on another thread had the answer:

Quoted from mystic-:

Problem Solved..
Apparently if you update the boards with new Roms it changes the machines set up numbers. The original roms are set to #31 for the ball count and with the updated roms the number changes to #30. after I made that change all was good..

Setting #31 that was the 'number of balls' changes to 'background sound' - '0' for off and '1' for on. Setting #30 that was the 'background sound' changes to 'number of balls (03 or 05).' Got it? Simple, right?

Then I found a chart that showed the changes thanks to @barakandl:

I will be using this chart to reconfigure my settings. I only have to worry about functions #25 and higher. It's problems like this that make me want to pull out my hair!

One more problem to solve. My flash lamps that used to work no longer work. It might get fixed when I change the settings. When I checked the lamps, I found that one of them was burned out. The flash lamps on Flash are #631 - at least that's what I found on my Flash and they look like the original GE lamps. Please correct me if I've got the wrong lamp number. #631 lamps are hard to find. None of the pinball vendors I use carry them. I found them at Amazon and eBay. Bulb Town has them for 50 cents. Here is more information than you will ever need, from Bulb Town, about the flash lamps used in Flash.

"Ba15s Base - 14.0 Volt 0.63 Amp 8.82 Watt G-6 Single Contact (SC) Bayonet (BA15S) Base, 2C-6 Series Filaments, 6.0 MSCP. 1,000 Average Rated Hours, 1.44" (36.56mm) Maximum Overall Length (M.O.L.), 0.75" (19.05mm) Maximum Outer Diameter (M.O.D.), 0.75" (19.05mm) Light Center Length (L.C.L.)."

Surprisingly, I found them at a local electronics store. Even more surprising, the price was reasonable.

#6 4 years ago

631 is the GE part number, but it cross references to a LOT of different part numbers. #89 is the usual part number that you'll see most often.
Essentially any BA15 style lamp with a 12v-14v rating will work.

Whomever worked on that CPU board in the past looks like they do good work. New sockets where needed, used a 6802 processor to eliminate the 6810 RAM chip, 3-chip ROM set, and most importantly your 5101 is in a socket too. Stupid easy to convert that game to an NVRAM, just remove the batteries and plug in the new chip.

-Hans

#7 4 years ago

Memory protect doesn't allow the machine to boot on route after your specific game environment settings were lost so selected coin/game setting parameters could be restored before returning machine back to service. While memory protect was available the machine isn't wired from initial production however could be added.

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#8 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

For informational purposes, the switch isn't needed to *enter* diagnostics.

That's where I went wrong. Thanks for the clarification @zacaj.

Quoted from zacaj:

If the switch is closed, however, your changes won't save. I don't think the game even knows whether the switch is open or not; the switch directly disables writing to the 5101 CMOS ram when closed.

So, the switch prevents any spurious voltages from corrupting the 5101 RAM. I hope the lack of the switch will not cause problems with my Flash on route. I have had all kinds of problems with this chip in the past.

Quoted from HHaase:

631 is the GE part number, but it cross references to a LOT of different part numbers. #89 is the usual part number that you'll see most often.
Essentially any BA15 style lamp with a 12v-14v rating will work.

Good to know. I was looking for this information last night. However, the GE #631 has two heavy duty filaments and the #89 has only one filament. I want to find the brightest lamp I can find. The whole game centers around the flash lamps.

Here is an LED replacement (be sure to get the 14 volt version):
https://www.pilotlights.net/ge-303-led-replacement-ba15s-base-g8-sc-bayonet-34

They are a tad expensive at ten bucks, but I bet they are bright! Look at all the LEDs on that thing! I might give them a try. If you do want to go with the LED substitute, you will need to cut one leg of the 330 Ohm warming resistor, the big one on the resistor board next to the lamps, or the LED will always be slightly on.

Quoted from HHaase:

Whomever worked on that CPU board in the past looks like they do good work. New sockets where needed, used a 6802 processor to eliminate the 6810 RAM chip, 3-chip ROM set, and most importantly your 5101 is in a socket too. Stupid easy to convert that game to an NVRAM, just remove the batteries and plug in the new chip.

The whole machine is well cared for. But yeah, I can appreciate the workmanship that went into that rework, including all new male header pins. I would like to thank that man or woman personally! I didn't have to do any work on the MPU.

Quoted from PINTEC:

Memory protect doesn't allow the machine to boot on route after your specific game environment settings were lost so selected coin/game setting parameters could be restored before returning machine back to service. While memory protect was available the machine isn't wired from initial production however could be added.

I had no idea. Thanks!

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

Here is an LED replacement (be sure to get the 14 volt version):
https://www.pilotlights.net/ge-303-led-replacement-ba15s-base-g8-sc-bayonet-34

They are a tad expensive at ten bucks, but I bet they are bright! Look at all the LEDs on that thing! I might give them a try. If you do want to go with the LED substitute, you will need to cut one leg of the 330 Ohm warming resistor, the big one on the resistor board next to the lamps, or the LED will always be slightly on.

As a follow-up, I ordered and got the GE #631 LED replacements today. They are bright, not as bright as I would like, but bright enough. I was hoping for almost blinding brightness! The GE #631 have a lifetime of only 1,000 hours. These have a lifetime of 30,000 hours. I won't have to worry about ever replacing these again.

GE 631 Flash! (resized).pngGE 631 Flash! (resized).png

GE 631 LED Replacement (resized).pngGE 631 LED Replacement (resized).png

I did have to clip the 330 Ohm warming resistor so the lamps wouldn't be on all of the time. Overall, I'm very happy with them.

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