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(Topic ID: 115112)

Here's one reason I just HAD to buy a WOZ..


By TimeBandit

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 50 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by PanzerFreak
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 5 years ago

Relative value. Look at this Aussie ebay list sorted by price. WOZ the value pick for sure..

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#2 5 years ago

wow, you guys really get shafted by the price there. in this listing, WOZ is the no brainer. however, it is the great machine, too bad often $$$ figures in choices, not general qualities of the pinball machine. if all pinballs ever made cost $1, WOZ would most probably be among the top few choices to have.

#3 5 years ago

Congrats on a great machine!

#4 5 years ago

wow, aveng prem 9k

#5 5 years ago

It really is a great, solid player. Don't let the recent few bad experiences let you think that's normal. If the majority of WOZ didn't play well or kept breaking, I'm sure they wouldn't sell like they do.

#6 5 years ago

The prices are certainly higher, but the difference is similar. For example the list price of WOZ in the U.S. is $8000 and the list price of Mustang LE in the U.S. is $8500, but can be easily obtained for approximately $8000.

In other words, a WOZ costs very close to a Mustang LE or X men LE regardless of country so the judgment on which is the better value doesn't change much by country. (I'm assuming anything within approximately $500 is considered similar.)

#7 5 years ago

Forgot to mention the WOZ is the AULE. Basically an ECLE without the wood apron. And the funniest one there is the RS I think.

#8 5 years ago

You're going to love it. WOZ is wicked tough...an evil machine that definitely rewards you for solid play with an incredible light show and nifty audio.

Enjoy!

-2
#9 5 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

You're going to love it.

Maybe, maybe not… most the guys I know either hate it or think its decent but not a keeper. A couple others I know do love it though.

I would say the "love it" is running about 30%

Good luck!

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Maybe, maybe not… most the guys I know either hate it or think its decent but not a keeper. A couple others I know do love it though.
I would say the "love it" is running about 30%
Good luck!

I dunno Teek. Even my coworkers from the garage seem to like WOZ, a lot. They dig the large screen and tons of shit to do. But right now TWDLE is the clear popularity contest winner.

#11 5 years ago

Maybe Teekee just hangs out with guys that are always in a bad mood.

#12 5 years ago

Yeah. I'm open minded. Took a long time for me to get with the theme. But lots of code updates combined with me on the hunt for depth again, plus this Aussie dollar crapping out all aligned at once for this to be the one. Interestingly, I think a couple of this batch started to get snapped up by guys in the UK, since they are stuck at the same AUD price they were 6 months ago, so in Pounds they were starting to get pretty cheap.

#13 5 years ago

And Teek, that's my favourite shot of Clint yet. What's it from? I can't place it.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Maybe Teekee just hangs out with guys that are always in a bad mood.

Believe it or not, that's teekee coming around on it. He'll be loving it in no time, and talking about how the woz ruby is the refake to the original LE and has no "intrinsic" value.

Come on teekee, it's a great game with great rules. Some hiccups along the way for sure, but if you enjoy KJ rules, this is a real treat.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

And Teek, that's my favourite shot of Clint yet. What's it from? I can't place it.

Harry Callahan… Dirty Harry. 284239__67272.1411107344.500.500.jpg

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Come on teekee, it's a great game with great rules.

Glad you like it, many do… and many DO NOT.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

If the majority of WOZ didn't play well or kept breaking, I'm sure they wouldn't sell like they do.

Unfortunately, you don't know that you have a dog until you've already bought it.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Glad you like it, many do… and many DO NOT.

I'm in the camp of people who can regognize what the did really well, and what they dropped the ball on. Audio, on the whole is ear stabbingly bad (there are some good audio bits, some great audio bits, and the bad is just heard so frequently IMO it is hard to ignore). Every time I think maybe I should buy a WoZ I hear it and snap out of it.

I need more time on the 4.0 code to make a final judgment; there is a lot to do but is it "fun"?

#19 5 years ago

I know the prices are higher in Aus than Stateside but don't people make more money there to offset this? Family median income in Aus is around 67k vs. 51k in the US. How much is a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk in Aus?

#20 5 years ago

IMO WOZ is a great game and last night played one hooked up to a subwoofer and sounded great to me. Same friend has a few Sterns including STLE, LOTR, POTC and SM, several B/W A games, several System 11, DE, EM's etc. I.e. he has a well rounded collection by many pinball makers and eras. He really likes his WOZ including the build quality, LCD, game play etc. However, WOZ can be stop and go and he played a Hobbit and believes it will have much more flow. Personally I don't mind stop and go especially having two games with good flow, but I realize some really want a lot of flow, so just a few thoughts.

#21 5 years ago

I am assuming that it is difficult for you to find a Wizard of Oz on location. It is difficult to say if a game is something you will like until you play it.

That said, some people have agreed with the idea that Wizard of Oz is like Twilight Zone on steroids. Both are more stop-and-go compared to a typical Steve Ritchie title. There's nothing wrong with that - Twilight Zone is clearly one of the top classics of all time, even though lots of people do not like it. But I would suggest that if you do not like Twilight Zone, you are unlikely to enjoy the gameplay in Wizard of Oz.

#22 5 years ago

Is EBay really the best place to compare prices?

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

I am assuming that it is difficult for you to find a Wizard of Oz on location. It is difficult to say if a game is something you will like until you play it.
That said, some people have agreed with the idea that Wizard of Oz is like Twilight Zone on steroids. Both are more stop-and-go compared to a typical Steve Ritchie title. There's nothing wrong with that - Twilight Zone is clearly one of the top classics of all time, even though lots of people do not like it. But I would suggest that if you do not like Twilight Zone, you are unlikely to enjoy the gameplay in Wizard of Oz.

This is where it is ALL about opinion. You're right about the fact that TZ is clearly one of the top classics of all time. However, I totally disagree with WOZ being TZ on steroids. TZ just feels like a lot more fun to play for me. And believe me, this is no indictment of the WOZ theme. I love the WOZ story and everything that it stands for. It is not a case of the theme not doing the game justice. For me, it's the other way around.

I've probably played WOZ on location 30 times. And no matter how much I try to get into it, I find it to be a slow, boring, "clunkfest". It's all sizzle and no steak in my opinion. It's got the lights. It's got the rules. It's got the monitor. It's got the toys. It's got the THEME. But when it all comes down to it and you strip all the razzle dazzle away, it just quite simply is no fun for me. And when you put the cost to fun ratio into play, that knocks the game out of the top 75. Add that to reliability and the potential upkeep costs down the road when only a handful of people can fix them, it all adds up to disaster.

I know this sounds crazy, but with all that being said, there's still a small part of me, albeit a very small part, that still wants to try a WOZ on an at-home basis. Look, I want to love it. So far, I just can't.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Is EBay really the best place to compare prices?

Pffft. Everybody knows when it comes to pinball shopping in Australia, Costco is where it is at
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/interesting-treasure-hunt-item-at-costco

Quoted from usandthem:

I know this sounds crazy, but with all that being said, there's still a small part of me, albeit a very small part, that still wants to try a WOZ on an at-home basis. Look, I want to love it. So far, I just can't.

This sounds like me

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Maybe Teekee just hangs out with guys that are always in a bad mood.

Or ones that just aren't into show tunes...

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

This is where it is ALL about opinion.

Agreed. I'm not saying that someone who likes Twilight Zone will like Wizard of Oz. Mostly, I'm saying that someone who hates Twilight Zone is more likely to also hate Wizard of Oz. Then again, these are generalizations with plenty of room for differences.

You and I are lucky that we have at least two WOZ machines on location within reasonable driving distance!

#27 5 years ago

The last game on that eBay list that I would buy would be WOZ.......I just don't care for it.

#28 5 years ago

Some days I love my WOZ and most days I HATE it! Don't think I'll ever sell it though, because of its beauty. I get tired of working so hard to get all the modes. And on the other hand, a game on my Iron Man is over before I know it! One is way too plodding, and the other is way too fast. Glad I have other pins to play when I get tired of the both of these.

#29 5 years ago

After all the shit you went thru to get it up and running, Mike, I wouldn't sell it either. (I had nearly as many problems.) Great machine, regardless of the haters.

#30 5 years ago

WOZ might be a great earner on location but playing the game out in the wild isnt ideal for passing judgement on the game. I think it takes close to 100 plays before your really GET it on Woz. The rules are brilliant, the light show is second to none, I personally like the music and most of the callouts. WOZ is easily a top 10 game for me and most likely a top 5. It along with MMR will be the last to leave my collection (MM is an alltime favorite and it was a gift from my wife) The bottom line is play what you like, trying to get opinions on pinside will just drive you mad. There are too many agendas online, and even if everyone is honest on here...different strokes for different folks.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from jamieflowers:

MM is an alltime favorite and it was a gift from my wife

One hell of a gift. Congratulations!

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

One hell of a gift. Congratulations!

One hell of a wife!

#33 5 years ago

Yeah she makes great money, is hot, an awesome mom and bought me a MMRLE...I think I will keep her.

#34 5 years ago

I have both WOZ and TWD. I do like TWD, but mostly because of its theme. Remove the theme and it's nothing compared to a WOZ...

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Is EBay really the best place to compare prices?

Certainly not. It was more just a bit of a chuckle than anything else. 10k for a RS anyone?

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from jamieflowers:

I think it takes close to 100 plays before your really GET it on Woz.

I have a similar story. The first time I played Woz over a year ago, I gave it a giant "meh" even after putting in 20 games. In the ensuing year, I didn't revisit WOZ once. But recently, I decided to give it another go and I felt engaged. What changed? Probably me - I read up on the rules and suddenly things made sense and the achievements felt rewarding.

The owner's manual as a PDF is public information. Do yourself a favor and download it. Many pages are devoted to explaining the rules.

#37 5 years ago

I am completely ready to not like it. The problem with playing before you buy is that it is so hard to find stuff on location to play here. And there is one distributor, in Melbourne, so I can't just rock up and have a game on the way home from work. This has been a long decision, and in the end one of the thoughts that kept going through my head was that you may never see another new machine with this level of resources thrown at it. Clear coated cabinet? C'mon, I have to see that to believe it. With all the cost cutting that goes on with these things, WOZ may actually be the machine that had TOO MUCH put into it, from a business perspective.
To me it represents JJP's debut album. You know that amazing album that a new band puts out, that was good enough to get them recognised, to cut through everything else and get noticed, but represented the type of commitment of energy and passion that they can NEVER pull together again once they are in the business of making records for a label, and on real corporate budgets for time as well as revenue.
And as much as pinball is ultimately about gameplay, if this machine is as physically amazing as reported, well, then if it is pretty close to the same price as a Mustang, you've gotta have a shot at it haven't you?

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

The owner's manual as a PDF is public information. Do yourself a favor and download it. Many pages are devoted to explaining the rules

Yes, been devouring that. Great resource.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

You know that amazing album that a new band puts out, that was good enough to get them recognised, to cut through everything else and get noticed, but represented the type of commitment of energy and passion that they can NEVER pull together again ...

Debuts are amazing things. You can only be fresh once. I'm not sure that WOZ is like the nuclear bomb called Nirvana, but it is different.

I think the conclusion of this review hits a similar vein. The reviewer clearly does not like the game, but withholds his usual vitriol to acknowledge that this is the first truly different machine in a long time.

#40 5 years ago

And in my opinion, it appears that The Hobbit will not fall victim to the "sophomore jinx" that many new bands experience.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Debuts are amazing things. You can only be fresh once. I'm not sure that WOZ is like the nuclear bomb called Nirvana, but it is different.
I think the conclusion of this review hits a similar vein. The reviewer clearly does not like the game, but withholds his usual vitriol to acknowledge that this is the first truly different machine in a long time.
» YouTube video

My only issue with that review is that it was using the current software of the time it was filmed. I'm not sure he would like it any better now, but he might. JJP kept doing updates until they had a great game. Just seeing that strobing YBR (Yellow Brick Road) brought back memories. Don't get me wrong, the software was OK then. It just got so much better after that.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

Unfortunately, you don't know that you have a dog until you've already bought it.

True dat. Life is risk. Take em and win/lose. We'll all be dead in a hundred years..

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

JJP kept doing updates until they had a great game.

There are plenty of Stern threads complaining about software updates and lack of communication. Invariably, JJP is brought up as a role model in these threads.

WOZ and JJP have many detractors and their share of problems, but software updates is not one of them. Check out the change log! http://support.jerseyjackpinball.com/downloads/woz/changelog.txt

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

I'm not sure that WOZ is like the nuclear bomb called Nirvana

I should hope not. THAT didn't end too well...

#45 5 years ago

Can't think of a single popular pin that at least some people on Pinside don't love to hate. Different strokes. You need to decide for yourself what you like.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

My only issue with that review is that it was using the current software of the time it was filmed. I'm not sure he would like it any better now, but he might. JJP kept doing updates until they had a great game. Just seeing that strobing YBR (Yellow Brick Road) brought back memories. Don't get me wrong, the software was OK then. It just got so much better after that.

I had the same thought when I watched that review. I think Classic Game Room does great reviews, but his WOZ review was a tad premature. I had a very similar reaction the first time I played it...it took JJ a while to iron it all out and make it all make sense.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

How much is a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk in Aus?

What is this loaf and or gallon you speak of?

1 month later
#48 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Debuts are amazing things. You can only be fresh once. I'm not sure that WOZ is like the nuclear bomb called Nirvana, but it is different.
I think the conclusion of this review hits a similar vein. The reviewer clearly does not like the game, but withholds his usual vitriol to acknowledge that this is the first truly different machine in a long time.
» YouTube video

Problem with that review is it's very, very dated using the older code and game is so much better with the newer codes. And several of his complaints about not knowing what to shoot for the machine now tells and shows you. Personally I don't think reviews are valid whether on Youtube, Pinside, IPDB etc until a strong code has come up and the reviewer has played at least quite a few games and understands the rule set well.

#49 5 years ago

The point about immature code is certainly valid, but the amazing thing to me is that even with immature code, the game was already fresh, but certainly not for everyone. Better code has only made a fresh talent into a mature act, like the difference between Nirvana and Foo Fighters.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Maybe, maybe not… most the guys I know either hate it or think its decent but not a keeper. A couple others I know do love it though.
I would say the "love it" is running about 30%
Good luck!

Still continuing your anti WOZ campaign I see even after all this time. Sad

I would say the "love it" is running around 90% based off who I've talked to. Also, a 30% "love it" game as you call it doesn't out earn every game on route.

Maybe one of the reasons people love WOZ so much is that it actually has completed code with a deep ruleset? Nah, that's crazy talk.

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