He wants to charge it to a credit card. No big deal.

I have sold pins to a few pinsiders that have been around for a long time, but rarely post. They always ask me what im comfortable with...in form of payment. If there was to be a 2nd dealing with them, i would do pay pal gift.

I always go cash the first time around with people I dont know. Just saves you from any unwanted headaches. Also, the guy lives 170 miles away.....hes not around the corner if something squirrelly happens.

I will tell you a little story about Paypal and how heavy handed they are. I had some people paying me as a gift even though I didn't ask and at one point Paypal got wind of it (large amounts is a tip off to them) and they FROZE my account. I had maybe $ 20,000 in there from business transactions and they told me 'if you want your money build your account up to 100,000 and then you can withdraw OVER that amount'... lol ya right... WELL, it literally took me a month to BEG and I mean BEG them to get them to release my funds to me. And frankly the only way they did it is they looked back at my history and saw some funds coming in for my children's hospital game donation charity and they asked about it and I explained what I had done donating 5 WOZ's to hospitals. I think the person I was dealing with just then felt a soft spot and lifted the freeze. BUT they took the gift option away from my business account AND my personal account as well. So... If you want your money DON'T use F&F - it's clearly used to avoid paying them their fees they honestly do deserve and if they catch you trust me it's not fun. If you're sending $ 20 here and there ya, but if you're sending 1000's then be prepared to be flagged and at some point called to the carpet. I will add there is no reasoning with them no matter how much you beg - they have you over a barrel and pretty much tell you so. Imagine putting your money in a bank and not having your bank give it to you when you want it.... THAT's what it was like... Wasn't fun. I need them for my business so I had to agree to anything they demanded. My advice, don't do it. This is probably a reason nobody would think of unless you were in my shoes. And the whole dispute thing as well - all your buyer has to do is get home and say a rubber is worn and he didn't get what paid for and BOOM, your money will be frozen while you fight a dispute.

Yes I believe there is a fine print agreement that friends and family is not to be used for sale of goods.

I have used paypal a lot...both for sending and receiving money.
I would recommend contacting some of those that have dealt with him and find have someone that can vouch for him over PM.

He is likely either using paypal credit or he just has a lot of paypal funds...but as long as he is sending friends and family, you should be good.

I would recommend doing it unless you get an uneasy feeling.

Of course, if it is a sought after pin at a reasonable price...if you aren't confortable, you can always go to the next buyer.

I wouldn't be worried based on his feedback the OP stated. Buyer is paying fees to make a friends & family payment if he uses a credit card. Only free from you paypal balance. Have buyer sign a sales agreement game is as-is as-seen and he accepts condition. Boom, no chargeback.

I always prefer cash and even when I've sold games over 4K buyers who were hesitant to travel with cash would when they wanted the game enough. Franklins rule. However being a holiday weekend may require an adjustment if that's the only time buyer can make it.

This is why Zelle is better, no fees for either side, it’s as good or better than PayPal f&f, once it’s sent, its your money, no chargebacks. The only drawback is the first time you send money, it takes three days for the other party to receive it. After the first time, its instant. All you need is a phone number linked to your bank account. Limits vary by bank, but you can send at least $1000 per day.

Have him ad 4% to transaction amount. That covers fees and no FNF.

The paypal insurance does not cover items picked up in person so you can use F&F as well.

Umm, when I was a kid I used to buy & sell a LOT of cars..maybe bought 3 a week and sold another 3. These were ~2k cars (1980's) I was never"afraid to carry cash" to buy a car, nor did I have any issues with buyers asking me to take checks, etc. It was always cash. It still exists today. More people should use it. It's very handy.

Zelle is great, I use it all the time to make various payments because they can't be reversed. It's main limit is how much you can do per day. If you add someone new then you can generally only send them $500 per day for a while. Eventually that bumps up, but it's still capped typically at around $2500 per day.

Regarding Paypal I'll say only one thing, if I ever wanted to rip off Pinsiders I'd use Paypal because it's just that easy, even with friends and family. I use paypal all the time for < $100 amounts. For large amounts you are basically asking to be ripped off. You call.

Screw that. I'd insist on cash on the glass. If you're concerned have a friend there with you for the transaction.
If the purchaser is concerned, he can bring a friend with him for the transaction. I think everyone is overthinking this.
If he doesn't have the cash now, he can put $100 down and meet you tomorrow for the deal.
Is this too complicated???

If you have to question it, don't do it.

I can verify that Friend and Family paid from a bank account CAN be reversed.

So only proceed if you’re comfortable because only cash on the glass is final.

Some people (including me) don't really have an easy way to get large amount of cash. The only bank I use is an online bank so I have to take cash out of the ATM $400 max per day. It's a real pain in the butt for me to rustle up a ton of cash - Paypal or Venmo is way easier. Also, in the Magic: the Gathering world, which is my other main hobby, everyone uses paypal all the time, so it's always surprising that pinball folks don't trust it. Lots of people say cash is king, but I say reputation is king. Just make sure you vet the person you're doing business with and you'll be good no matter what.

2.9% is the fee paypal charges you nowadays, and paypal always agrees with the buyer, so well worth the insurance to pay for goods and services.

If you just get a PayPal business debit card (free), you only have to pay any ATM fee (usually $5 or less) to get $. Only negative (typically) is that there is a $1000 single transaction limit. I’ve done this many many times and find it to be the easiest way to get cash from PayPal without using a bank account.

I don’t think they have this in the states.

I have taken payment via bank transfer from a friend overseas that I trust. The bank does charge me a flat $10

Any Paypal transaction can be reversed via bank account, happened to me. Worse Paypal admitted they knew the person in question had done it several times and his account was under review. As soon as I mentioned the attorney general of the state of CT was getting involved since Paypal was assisting a known fraudulent user they backed the clown car up and gave me my funds back.

You should open an account at a local bank so you have access to cash. Online banking has its advantages, including higher deposit rates, but having an account at a local bank, regardless of the interest rate, gets you physical cash when you need it.

Dead horse fully beaten.

Cash until you, or someone you know well, knows the buyer.

The only way he can screw you through f&f is if he used a cc to fund the payment... so simply tell him you will take f&f as long as he's not using a cc to fund it. Once he makes the payment check you account and make sure the money is available to you and not pending. If its in you account and available immediately then ask him to log into his pp account and show you the summary page of the specific payment he just made to you. There it will show you exactly how he made the payment... cc, bank account or paypal balance. As long as its not funded by a cc you're good to go!

This is false as I have already pointed out having gone through it.

If drawn on a local bank it can be reversed just like credit card.

Doesnt a bank transfer require you to physically go to the bank?

Interact e-transfer can be done with your phone at a buyers house and it takes 30 seconds. No bank staff required.

Yup...after googling it looks like it's not available in the US.

Ok then just make sure it comes through his PayPal balance... and still not sure if drawn from bank account is a risk like cc. Hell, he could give you fake bills as well. Just make sure it isn't funded with a cc and you'll be fine.

I have just been on the receiving end, so only can answer on that. Nope. Money showed up in my account and I got a letter in the mail 2-3 days later indicating there was funds transferred in and a $10 fee.

Yea, it's not the same thing at all. I've helped a buyer move a pin and the guy sent an interact e -transfer to the seller just before we moved it out of his basement. Instant and both parties used their online banking to make it happen.

It's a shame that's not an option for you guys in the US.

Well it was instant, just my banks policy to send a letter.

This is a solid way to do it, time tested and proven in my book.

Since 2014, yeah, he's running a long con on you. Give the guy a break.

I've had a couple of pinsiders trust me with PayPal. They felt comfortable with the deals after explained why I wanted to use PayPal. On another front, a local marijuana delivery service started using PayPal friends and family. I was having a health issue yesterday that is helped by eating an edible, and didnt want to drive to ATM to get cash. I woke up today feeling much better, and liking PayPal even more. I just say no to opiods,and yes to PayPal under the right circumstances.

Just tell the buyer to read this thread and hopefully he will bring you cash.....

I did exactly this on Friday buying Deadpool, and I don't really have a ton of Pinside posts either. It's a holiday weekend, so the soonest you can really get cash out is Tuesday. I keep all my money in an Ally account, which doesn't have physical locations, so I have to transfer to my local bank, then pull out of there. So I generally go F/F if the seller is willing.

This. I had my account frozen once too because suddenly I had more activity on it (Shadow translites heh). Took a while to sort it out. They can hold your money hostage during the process.

I don’t care about bashing using F&F because it’s “cheating” PayPal, but you’re doing something that might get flagged and turn into a headache.

I doubt this guy is scamming you, but just be aware that these things happen.

I’ve used F and F both ways for a few pinball transactions. So far I haven’t been burned.
Do a little research and if it feels ok go for it. Way more people are honest than are scammers.Long time pinsider with 3 reviews, probably fine imo.
Of course it only takes 1 to change my perspective.

I have firsthand knowledge of PP freezing account and how much of a pain it is. If you won't be impacted by your payment possibly being held up for months, go for it. If you need that money, don't do it. I think it's that simple.

It seems these PP warnings and caveats -- though mostly accurate -- are assuming that THIS BUYER is planning/going to rip him off. Really?

Of course, don't be an idiot when selling. And you've been burned. I get it. But if you wouldn't trust even the buyer this OP described, I feel sorry for you.

I've acquired 13 pins over the past 3 months using PayPal. Very grateful to those sellers that worked with me. Only once did I relent to a cash deal (with a seller in my region) and one seller requested a wire transfer. Going forward those methods would probably be a deal breaker for me as it derails my workday.

In the modern economy, many busy professionals have moved away from cash-based transactions. Sellers who require "cash on the glass" may not feel like they are missing out on any sales but for sure you are selling to a smaller market and possibly undervaluing your pin. Who knows. Certainly folks need to stay in their comfort zone and use best judgement as they see it.

Thanks to those in the thread disclosing personal experience with PP freezing accounts due to perceived F/F abuse. Timely point of education for me. Also the ethics of bypassing the fees; good points.

Due diligence comes in many forms. Inviting strangers into your home may not be all up-side if you think about it. All transactions carry a certain level of risk so try to control as many variables as you can.
Cullen

All this checks out. Zelle is irreversible once you see the funds in your account. When I sold a game via Zelle, the seller could only send $2k per day, so he just broke it up over a few days and I shipped it when everything cleared. As mentioned in the quote above, transactions (after your first one) are instant.

I'm all about the EMT, it really is the best thing since sliced bread. My account even has all free EMT's. no matter if it's $5.00 to $3K.

E-transfer was great. I miss that. Maybe one day - but for now people still write cheques (oops i mean checks) for stuff. And use pennies. Don’t get me started on those....

If only there was some way to transfer a currency between individuals without having to go through a bank, Paypal, Zelle, etc. Somebody should really look into inventing that...

Being burned sucks. Hearing of other folks being burned sucks too. Letting it turn you into an untrusting cynic who has no faith in ANYONE. EVER. ... Sucks even more. Sad.

I've been using PayPal since it started I don't understand all this talk about having accounts Frozen and reversing charges what exactly are you guys doing is causing your account to be frozen there always seems to be that little bit of lack of information

From what I have seen , you sold a game or part. You describe it well and many pictures sent. You follow all rules to a T. The buyer sees a blemish or a scratch ( lets say it was under where the legs go and would be covered up.) Buyer raises to stink with paypal, and paypal will then come for you....

Pretty much. They buyer doesn't even have to prove anything usually. The last time I used PayPal to take money was an eBay auction for a videogame console. I sent it tracked and insured and took pictures of me packing the item in various stages with the buyers address on the package. The buyer filed a claim with PayPal that they never received the package. PayPal froze my account (and money) while they did an "investigation" in which I provided the tracking number (showing delivered), the post office receipt for the insurance, and the pictures and the buyer provided a claim he never received it and nothing else. Guess who got their money back? That was the last time I used PayPal and never will again.

Having a buyer sign something doesn't help. It's not a legal document. You can ask me to sign a piece of paper that says "I give you my house for free!" but the second I want my house back good luck getting it to hold up in court.

If anyone wants to use PayPal that's fine, but I won't and that should also be fine.

Do a better job describing what your selling. List everything good and bad. If there was a scratch somewhere, whether it can be seen or not when installed, it should have been mentioned.