Me and Franchi had a good laugh on this one ha
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Console games from the EM guy. What has the world come to.

The LSU vs Texas A&M games was long enough to make me cranky though.

Sure. We played 10 games of Pit Stop last night all the time laughing about how bad that one is.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Yes! I have a complex... like a little boy that wants to see the demise of every stern pin - wonderful compliment! Thank you!

... I did try to explain WHY I will be defensive.

As I said Opinions are fine - it’s the lack of understanding and respect for the teams efforts when the facts aren’t reality that I take issue with.

Stern was contracted to build this.

Not one person at stern phones it in btw - they work weekends for a year so you can level their thousands of hours of effort in a single dismissive impulsive comment...

Complaining about cost & value are fine when it’s based on facts and in those in the actual reality... 90% of complaints here miss the entire point and paint this as a cash grab...

To be fair it was Madden 93 on a Sega.

You sure that wasn't tecmo bowl? If so Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson all day.

Game looks gorgeous. To me at least the 'better art' part of the equation has definitely been fulfilled not only on this title, but just having you in the hobby in general. I hope you feel appreciated and not just frustrated, because you've earned lots of props, and the weird and rough journey that got you to Stern really did improve the hobby. No hyperbole there.

But let's be real, the 'new ideas' part isn't even remotely there on this. Woah Nellie is a recycled layout to begin with. My friend owns the original conversion Greg and Dennis made, Woah Nellie #1, I've played it. I'm aware of what changed from Continental Cafe to the EM prototype to the digital Stern commercial version, and it's not some amazing transformation into new thinking. It's a basic ass game with old ideas that's cute and fun for what it is, and that's it. Sorry. Even the digital score reel has already been done before Stern by hobbyists.

Then it got reskinned into a freaking beer commercial, and that was hilarious in its own way, but kind of a sad indictment of how bad Woah Nellie did. If anyone has any illusions about it Stern utterly fucked Dennis on Woah Nellie. All these sad "wah wah that's business!" posts can eat shit really, I don't want to hear anything about poor Stern in this thread. The legacy of that game is tarnished and shitty, and the way they keep Weekend At Bernie's-ing the corpse is mostly just sad. I hope he's seeing more than pennies for these, but I haven't spoken to him about it since before Pabst, so I have no idea if he's getting a dime for any of this. If you think he was happy about how the original game and deal worked out think again though.

I love Primus, been a fan since 1991, they were a local band, and Sailing the Seas was a big deal for us when it came out. Super cool that they got a game, and with some killer art that really represents their style and history. Knocked it out of the park, great work. Seriously, looks awesome!

It's also, from a *game* standpoint, a lame reskin of a beer game that was a tacky boob game that was a frankensteined woodrail that Stern fucked the designer over on. So yeah, "new ideas" ain't it, and don't be mad that people aren't dumb and can see that. If you treat this like one bad ass concert poster collectible then it's all good, killer work, props to you. If you look at this as pinball, which is about playing games, and not jerking off over limited editions and not caring about the actual gameplay then it's a wet fart. Don't ask us to sniff it and call it roses.

Please reread my post - I don’t take the attacks as personal on my work - I’m appreciative of all that support my work... I’m defending the project (which includes my work but it much more than me) because I believe it was done as it should be. I say this as the only guy in this room with intimate knowledge of the process and project...

I ask that you THINK about the effort of people involved before you make assumptions and dismiss away peoples efforts.. not mine - the teams

No it was Madden 93 and I thought I had this game dialed. That was until we started playing for money.

New ideas? So there was another way to get a Primus machine made? You’re missing the point - if this succeeds as it can only exist currently THEN the message to stern is ‘hey maybe we could make a studio project here’... again, missing the point and dismissing the effort based on your disdain for stern and woah Nellie...

...and I never said hold back - I said remember people did lost sleep and time with family here - so choose your words maybe?

You can paraphrase my statements all day to make the point you wish to make - I’m exhausted by the negativity and have worked nonstop for over a year so I could revel in it...

Jeremy, 142 people have posted in this thread. Pinside gets 5000+ users a day. Of the 142 who knows how many are critical of Stern in this thread, but obviously its a number lower than 142. Most critical posts are repeated over and over, so it seems more than it is.

You're never going to get 100% love and support on any project or from any group. Realize how small a percentage those critical voices are (even though they get a disproportionate amount of attention).

Stern makes money. Their factory produces dozens of games every day and they get bought. That is the metric.

I'm just trying to offer some perspective here.

And on that note - I realize why no one from stern posts here or engages

I’ll stay away - but please read what I asked - it’s not about me... pinside is sort of like reading some tweets - impulse over patient reflection... I get it

Have a happy holiday everyone! Even if you think I have a complex

I am thinking a Train theme. All aboard.

Let's just face it. They are making these games with minimum effort for maximum profit now. After all that's the American way!

I wonder how many WNBJM playfield blanks they have left.

Aurich, rarehero, et al... my case is made...

Thousands of hours by dozens of people made insignificant by flippant words on a forum... now reread my post... ?

And o-din I hope your job is made as insignificant by the people you respect some day.

I respect the people that use a fresh patty on my hamburger. And don't serve me cold fries.

Wow. No one insulted you or your work or had anything but positive things to say about your contribution, and then you come back with some personally insulting garbage like that? You really couldn't have said something shittier to me. Go outside or something, you're way out of line with that nonsense.

Congrats, you reinvented retheming Woah Nellie with hand drawn art for a boutique hipster theme. What an amazing new idea you have there.

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Has it?

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Tune in next time when Odin continues to troll and aurich gets offended..

It wasn't very long ago that most new releases had lame Photoshop backglasses and playfields. Many of us definitely craved a return to hand-drawn art and we finally got it with Metallica. And over the last few years, with much credit due to you and Donny, we're getting all kinds of awesome pinball art. In case you don't hear it enough, we appreciate it A LOT.

I'm sure it's difficult not to take it personally when you read comments from people bitching about your project, in this case Primus, but it's primarily some disappointment that it's a reskin, or that it's pricey, or both, not the art. You nailed it.

From theme, to art, to layout, to sound package, to rules, to price, there are so many ways to critique a pinball machine. It's nearly impossible for companies to please everyone in all categories. At least with you they've got the art covered, which is big.

Do you remember the time when you liked pinball? You are one of the first to literally criticize everything. If pinball pisses you off so much why do you waste your time here?

To be fair though. Gottlieb used to use the same play field layouts for as many games as the could keep selling.

CGC doesn't even go that far, they just remake the same game with some cool upgrades. Maybe I should head over there. I bet they are getting torched in that thread........

You don’t comprehend what you read, do you? Sorry to upset you man - I was making an analogy to responses on a forum

Liking pinball doesn’t mandate one cheerleads every new game. I love pinball. I don’t much care for most of what’s going on in new pinball manufacturing. Both feelings can coexist.

It has - read my original point. Also a guy who calls himself ‘rarehero’ shouldn’t throw stones in glass complexes...

He’s anti Dongload Clump, that’s why he took offense to the comparison.

Rarehero is a song from Ridge Racer. No other meaning is attached to it.

It’s weird how I always praise you, yet you still think I’m your enemy.

You dont have to cheerlead anything. Theres just no need for the constant bashing and hate that goes on. People get so worked up over shit that doesn't matter or affect them in any way. And in most cases its stuff that they know little to nothing about. That's not directed at you, just a general statement about pinside.

I didn't think I was trolling.

I love Primus. And I think the game looks cool.

And I played WNBJM and decided it was cool for a while, and I know the production version is not an EM, but just the same it didn't really have the geometry or features or replay ability I like on some of the other EMs or even solid state games I own. Kudos for the two inch flippers though.

That's all.

There's no need to dismiss people's opinions as "bashing" and "hate". This is a hobbyist site, filled with pinball hobbyists and customers who are educated about pinball and are entitled to share their opinions, even negative ones, without being shamed for it or ganged up on by sycophants.

Now go help get my Munsters done!!

Lunch break is over today.

LOL

Understandable, but that comparison was pointed at Pinside in general. Aurich had to go and make it about himself, which is bogus. ZY clearly did not insult him personally.

Wrong artist.

Politics on pinside sucks.
In before the moderator lock.

It would be fun if just for one day we all had to read comments from 15 idiots criticizing how we do our day jobs, completely missing the point of whatever projects we are involved in at work, and generally pursuing conspiracy theories about how and why we do our job rather than accepting the most logical and simplest explanations.

I bet most of us would take it personally. People here go out of their way to completely misrepresent and misunderstand what these people do and why they do it.

It would be kind of funny. I can only imagine the Shit they’d say about us. It would be like when Seinfeld showed up at that heckler’s office job to yell at her.

Like when you had your GB hate tangent were you chased everyone around telling them how it sucks. Or how no one can dislike TH without hearing from you about how wrong they are?

I have no issue with negative or critical opinions. People just go around stating them like facts and crossing lines and making things personal. Theres really no need for it. I try not to say things on here that I wouldn't say to someone's face. It's hard to do from time to time but it's a rule that pretty much always keeps me from being a giant ass for no reason.

That is why I said go help! Vs get it done!

Re: GB. I didn’t chase anyone, but when I expressed my opinion with facts to back it up, I was chased down by the Pinside opinion police as a scapegoat even when TONS of other people expressed the same opinion.

Re: TH. Most people ARE wrong about Hobbit, haven’t played it with newer code, and are still repeating lies like the upper flipper doesn’t do anything. Correcting people with facts isn’t wrong.

So, now even in this thread - am I to be the skapegoat for non-positive consumer opinion even though the thread is full of similar sentiment?

Oh, Pinside.

Is this the same guy who left pinside after people criticised his art on Alien?

Doesn't sound like criticism to me.

These are big toys that we want to spend our money on. I think the criticism stems from disappointment at not be able to buy a desired theme due to some problem, like cost, lack of features, recycled layout, etc.

When GB was revealed, it was heaped with praise. Until it turned out to have gameplay, code and playfield quality issues.

When Metallica was revealed it was also heaped with praise. It received some criticism due to the voicing but with great game play and code, it has continued to receive praise.

Not a scapegoat at all. I think you missed my point on your post about cheerleading and hating. You do both plenty. Even still refusing to accept that someone may not like a game that you love and if they do they are wrong. Uneducated morons that you are correcting with facts.

Did you even read the posts?

This is a fantastic looking, boring and overpriced remake. Stern really showing his true colors lately. Starts to look like a company from China in 1990.

I like pinside much more and thend to post much less shit since I started to use the "ignore" function when the Beatles "shit" hit the fan.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORUM!!!

Only positive words on Primus now.

(Well, inbetween all that "ignores user post"s that is.)

I think this may be yeti's best work yet. Amazing color scheme, his passion really comes through on this project. If i had the money id buy one just to look at it.

why do we have another profile for zombieyeti now? vs just re-activating the old profile?

As someone who works in an industry that did have a bunch of armchair quarterbacks on forums about our products and company actions... it was quite comical to watch from the inside and seeing what the so called 'informed' people had to say about why things were done

Hey zombie yeti, thanks for bringing politics into pinball. It's not like politics hasn't ruined sports, movies, TV etc.... Thanks for making your motives clear. Now back to pinball not politics please

I didn't (and still don't) ignore you (in case you thought so, because you disliked my comment).

It's ok to be negative (to tell what you think, what a Forum is about). But I think it's not ok to just shit all over the place, over and over again.
You're not that kind of user.