(Topic ID: 300745)

Here's a Tip - Don't Buy A Flip!

By Ecw0930

32 days ago


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  • 110 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 days ago by Tranquilize
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    There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    29
    #1 32 days ago

    Godzilla LE already going up on market for $14k+

    Too many people complaining and then people buying.

    Get it under control. Don't buy the flips. That simple. Not sure it could be anymore clear than that.

    I roll my eyes, and laugh, and then feel mad because we see these flipper prices, then complain about it in every forum and thread. But they still get bought. The FOMO in this space is ridiculous. If we (collectively) don't want the prices to continue like this, then we (collectively) need to not buy them at such "unreasonable" prices. (isn't capitalism grand? I say "unreasonable" because it's worth "what someone is willing to pay")

    Ok, that is all. GO PINBALL!

    13
    #2 32 days ago

    Oh Danny, this isn't Russia, is it,

    11
    #3 32 days ago
    Quoted from Ecw0930:

    Get it under control. Don't buy the flips. That simple. Not sure it could be anymore clear than that.

    By any chance are you the same person that came up with Nancy Reagan’s Just Say No To Drugs campaign in the 80’s? I’m sure this will be just as effective.

    16
    #4 32 days ago
    Quoted from Ecw0930:

    Godzilla LE already going up on market for $14k+
    Too many people complaining and then people buying.
    Get it under control. Don't buy the flips. That simple. Not sure it could be anymore clear than that.
    I roll my eyes, and laugh, and then feel mad because we see these flipper prices, then complain about it in every forum and thread. But they still get bought. The FOMO in this space is ridiculous. If we (collectively) don't want the prices to continue like this, then we (collectively) need to not buy them at such "unreasonable" prices. (isn't capitalism grand? I say "unreasonable" because it's worth "what someone is willing to pay")
    Ok, that is all. GO PINBALL!

    This is like telling a manic depressive to "just cheer up!"

    Your heart is in the right place but it's kind of pointless. Obviously, plenty of people care more about obtaining a game they want than they do about discouraging flipping. You can do your part by never paying a cent over face for a pinball machine, but expecting others to behave the same way is a waste of time and energy.

    On the plus side, we have the makings of yet another two-digit page pinball pricing thread!

    YAY!

    #5 32 days ago

    Won’t buy NIB. JP last one for me. Used for me now on. Prices for NIB are too much for me to justify.

    14
    #6 32 days ago

    LE buyers are check-cutters, and check-cutters gotta cut checks.
    I've never looked at how much an LE is because I would never buy one, unless it was the same price as a premium.

    #7 32 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    This is like telling a manic depressive to "just cheer up!"
    Your heart is in the right place but it's kind of pointless. Obviously, plenty of people care more about obtaining a game they want than they do about discouraging flipping. You can do your part by never paying a cent over face for a pinball machine, but expecting others to behave the same way is a waste of time and energy.
    On the plus side, we have the makings of yet another two-digit page pinball pricing thread!
    YAY!

    Is the pin flipping bubble about to burst?

    #8 32 days ago

    Pssst: The guy paying $14k for gzle thinks the guy who’s flipping it to him must not have his shit together in life financially to feel the need to make a measly few thousand on a flip.

    #9 32 days ago
    Quoted from BudManPinFan:

    By any chance are you the same person that came up with Nancy Reagan’s Just Say No To Drugs campaign in the 80’s? I’m sure this will be just as effective.

    That was my uncle.

    #10 32 days ago

    Just seeing this now. Was busy posting on the Corvette-Lovers forum that Corvettes are too expensive.

    #11 32 days ago
    5nolqf (resized).jpg
    #12 32 days ago

    Good luck with those 17 pins on your wishlist

    #13 32 days ago
    Quoted from Ecw0930:Godzilla LE already going up on market for $14k+
    Too many people complaining and then people buying.
    Get it under control. Don't buy the flips. That simple. Not sure it could be anymore clear than that.
    I roll my eyes, and laugh, and then feel mad because we see these flipper prices, then complain about it in every forum and thread. But they still get bought. The FOMO in this space is ridiculous. If we (collectively) don't want the prices to continue like this, then we (collectively) need to not buy them at such "unreasonable" prices. (isn't capitalism grand? I say "unreasonable" because it's worth "what someone is willing to pay")
    Ok, that is all. GO PINBALL!

    Can you explain how or why you sold the second highest rated machine for you?

    Seems you have lots of truely highly rated games on your wish list.

    You did not just highly rate your Getaway to flip it for more money did you?

    #14 32 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    Can you explain how or why you sold the second highest rated machine for you?
    Seems you have lots of truely highly rated games on your wish list.
    You did not just highly rate your Getaway to flip it for more money did you?

    Not at all. I played the mess out of it for a long time. It ran it's course. I ended up grabbing a star trek after that which I loved. But it too ran it's course. I now own a g'n'r se and I'm not sure it will ever leave. But with my track record it probably will at some point.

    I do have highly rated games on my wishlist. Because those are the ones I like. that does not mean I want to pay way too much for them, or am willing to.

    Alas, some people will be willing to which seems to be the problem.

    #15 32 days ago

    There are different levels to a "Flip". If you buy a game and do nothing but resell as is, you're a flipper. However if you buy a non working pin and fix it up, shop it out and resell you are a "restorer". I still consider the latter "flipping a game" because I bought it to resell. But the difference is I take a non working pin to one that works and is fully shopped and ready for a newbie to enjoy without issue for years.

    14
    #16 31 days ago

    Just get a premium. Who gives a shit about that foo foo stuff. Same game. Go play pinball you fools

    #17 31 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    There are different levels to a "Flip". If you buy a game and do nothing but resell as is, you're a flipper. However if you buy a non working pin and fix it up, shop it out and resell you are a "restorer". I still consider the latter "flipping a game" because I bought it to resell. But the difference is I take a non working pin to one that works and is fully shopped and ready for a newbie to enjoy without issue for years.

    what about buying a game, playing it until you beat it, and then selling it. no reconditioning, same condition you got it. does that make you a flipper too?

    11
    #18 31 days ago
    Quoted from CrisCrow:

    what about buying a game, playing it until you beat the hell out of it, and then selling it. no reconditioning, same condition you got it. does that make you a flipper too?

    I think the thing here is all the NIB, "pay for my spot", "I just got this", etc etc.

    You buy the newest game with all the hype, secure your spot (LE, CE, SE, Premium, Pro, whatever) with ZERO honest intent to ever play or even open the damn box. The sole purpose of purchase was to flip it. And THOSE people drive the prices up. So to get the game the buyer then has to (theoretically) sell their game at a higher price to afford the new game. So there's this huge trickle effect for the entire industry.

    I don't really think playing the hell out of a pin and enjoying it and then selling it is a flip. That's like buying a house, living in it, then getting your value out of it.

    But the FLIPS in pinball drive the prices of all the other machines up.

    It sickens me to see $12k for a Mando and $14k for a Godzilla NIB when you know what they paid for it and are just taking advantage of landing a spot on the wait list. It sickens me because there are HONEST people that want to enjoy the hobby for what it is. It takes games out of the lives/hands/families of these hobbyist people and puts the games with the greedy, money hungry people that are collectively pricing the hobby out of a good percentage of enthusiasts capabilities.

    #19 31 days ago

    understandable. The NIB being unloaded for way more than asking is lame. But there's also the issue of supply and demand. In any industry there has always been people willing to pay more for a product that is hard to obtain from someone that has it on hand. Even if there were no people flipping NIB games and just selling used there will always be someone willing to pay outrageous prices to have what they want immediately.

    12
    #20 31 days ago

    I can stop any time I want to.

    #21 31 days ago

    Dammit wish I saw this earlier. Already bought Mando LE GNR LE and Zilla LE flips. Fudge!

    #22 31 days ago
    Quoted from Charger68:

    Oh Danny, this isn't Russia, is it,

    You’re not being the ball Danny.

    #23 31 days ago

    Go, go, go Godzillas!

    #24 31 days ago

    Who gives a shit how other people spend their money. Pinball has always been crazy. It will get crazier and crazier.

    Enjoy the ride!

    #25 31 days ago

    I’d sell my GZ LE spot for $16k. Why? Didn’t buy it to flip but with that kind of profit I’d just go buy a premium.

    #26 31 days ago

    In this hobby nothing brings my piss to a boil more than this complete sh*thouse practise. I freaking HATE seeing LE's for sale 2nd hand still in the box, or even before you've received the damned thing.

    Basically destroy the chance of a real pinball + theme fan getting an LE just so you can then take advantage of that "enthusiasm" and make a bit of cash.

    Yeah yeah, who cares let people spend their money how they want, let people charge for what they want etc... But if you think this sort of crap isn't also driving up prices across the board and now even pricing some folks out of the market (which is happening here is Aus) you are being naive. It doesn't belong in this hobby, no matter what anyone tries to tell me about supply and demand. I wish there was some way to ban this sh*t, but what can you do?

    14
    #27 31 days ago

    Why does everyone just focus on LE prices as if that's the only game you can buy? They are limited to raise demand by design. If you don't like the limited madness then just buy a premium.

    #28 31 days ago

    You will never ever stop it.

    If you can't beat them, join them. How do you think many people afford LE's? They flip two of them for a 4-5k profit and BAM! - next LE is paid for.

    #29 31 days ago

    The only way this stops is very simple. Stern needs to keep escalating the LE cost and increasing the LE quantity until buyers tap out at MSRP price and the variance for flipping is reduced to zero because of lack of interest.

    Stern should increase the next LE to $11,499 @ 1250 units. At some point the market will be satisfied through the MSRP / distributor model and it is in Stern's best interest more than anyone to push to find that equilibrium.

    If they raised to 1250 units @ $11,499 and only sold 1,119 through to distributors (making up a number here) - then they just don't build the remaining few and they now have a successful litmus test for what the market actually will absorb. Right now as Godzilla has shown us, the market wants to absorb more than 1000.

    #30 31 days ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    The only way this stops is very simple. Stern needs to keep escalating the LE cost and increasing the LE quantity until buyers tap out at MSRP price and the variance for flipping is reduced to zero because of lack of interest.
    Stern should increase the next LE to $11,499 @ 1250 units. At some point the market will be satisfied through the MSRP / distributor model and it is in Stern's best interest more than anyone to push to find that equilibrium.
    If they raised to 1250 units @ $11,499 and only sold 1,119 through to distributors (making up a number here) - then they just don't build the remaining few and they now have a successful litmus test for what the market actually will absorb. Right now as Godzilla has shown us, the market wants to absorb more than 1000.

    why would any company want to do this? what benefit is there for them? if it was me id be happy that my product was next to unobtainable and people were charging and paying double what I initially charged. means I was successful

    17
    #31 31 days ago

    LE's are easy to avoid, because it's the same gameplay as a premium. So if you are buying to actually play your game. Who gives a shit if LE's go for 20k or not? Buy the damn premium.

    #32 31 days ago
    Quoted from CrisCrow:

    why would any company want to do this? what benefit is there for them? if it was me id be happy that my product was next to unobtainable and people were charging and paying double what I initially charged. means I was successful

    I dunno...capitalism?? The market continues to demonstrate to Stern with each release that they are repeatedly leaving money on the table. Why would they want to do that on their premier product line? The margins are the biggest on the LE and can be even bigger in their favor. They don't make pinball machines out of the goodness of their hearts. They aren't a not-for-profit existing for the love of the hobby. Its a balance and any smart business would be constantly evaluating the variables in the market, beyond just market absorption of product, to establish price points and quantities.

    #33 31 days ago
    Quoted from Ceemunkey:

    In this hobby nothing brings my piss to a boil more than this complete sh*thouse practise. I freaking HATE seeing LE's for sale 2nd hand still in the box, or even before you've received the damned thing.
    Basically destroy the chance of a real pinball + theme fan getting an LE just so you can then take advantage of that "enthusiasm" and make a bit of cash.
    Yeah yeah, who cares let people spend their money how they want, let people charge for what they want etc... But if you think this sort of crap isn't also driving up prices across the board and now even pricing some folks out of the market (which is happening here is Aus) you are being naive. It doesn't belong in this hobby, no matter what anyone tries to tell me about supply and demand. I wish there was some way to ban this sh*t, but what can you do?

    How much would you like to see the overall price of pins drop? 10%? 50%?

    #34 31 days ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    The only way this stops is very simple. Stern needs to keep escalating the LE cost and increasing the LE quantity until buyers tap out at MSRP price and the variance for flipping is reduced to zero because of lack of interest.
    Stern should increase the next LE to $11,499 @ 1250 units. At some point the market will be satisfied through the MSRP / distributor model and it is in Stern's best interest more than anyone to push to find that equilibrium.
    If they raised to 1250 units @ $11,499 and only sold 1,119 through to distributors (making up a number here) - then they just don't build the remaining few and they now have a successful litmus test for what the market actually will absorb. Right now as Godzilla has shown us, the market wants to absorb more than 1000.

    Start calling them Custom Orders or Custom Shop. No limits.
    "Each Custom Shop order is built by hand by our top technicians"
    Which is what they are already doing.
    Its the limits on production that are feeding flippers.
    It worked for awhile with Beanie Babies to drive hype.
    Returning to the guitargument, I would rather have a Custom Shop then a Limited Edition.
    All about perspective and Marketing.

    #35 31 days ago

    Meh...capitalism
    Buy a premium if you cant stomach it

    #36 31 days ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Start calling them Custom Orders or Custom Shop. No limits.
    "Each Custom Shop order is built by hand by our top technicians"
    Which is what they are already doing.
    Its the limits on production that are feeding flippers.
    It worked for awhile with Beanie Babies to drive hype.
    Returning to the guitargument, I would rather have a Custom Shop then a Limited Edition.
    All about perspective and Marketing.

    Spot on. They don't need to do anything to the price. If they make the high end model unlimited there would be No flip value over list as you could just buy one anytime. Or make the "limited" a variation vs "qty" and say 5000 units. If there is no limit to accessibility there would be no value to flippers! There are Thousands of products in the world defined as "limited" that are not defined by quantity.

    #37 31 days ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Spot on. They don't need to do anything to the price. If they make the high end model unlimited there would be No flip value over list as you could just buy one anytime. Or make the "limited" a variation vs "qty" and say 5000 units. If there is no limit to accessibility there would be no value to flippers! There are Thousands of products in the world defined as "limited" that are not defined by quantity.

    Except once they stop the run, you now have a custom that no one else has, and the after market prices will still be all over the place. Imagine advertising you have the only lizard skin paint job that Stern did on the Godzilla pin.....or maybe one of 10 known, etc.......so long as people have money to throw at anything they deem limited, they will do it. It's just like the white-woods that float around and go for a premium....I have never understood the attraction to those and what makes them special other than they are something that no one else has. Many aren't even complete, but they get snapped up fast.

    I learned a valuable lesson after my brother passed away and I was in charge of liquidating his business and assets. I attached sentimental value to everything, and thought it ought to go for a million dollars, when in reality, it was just a piece of metal or a piece of wood, which had far less value to others than I thought it should. At some point pinball will be old news, and the market will correct, and we will all have game rooms (myself included) full of wood boxes with blinking lights that are nowhere near as valuable as they once were. So long as you are good with that fact, I say to "rock on" and pay what you want to get what makes you feel complete....just don't count on them for long term investments.

    #38 31 days ago

    New flash...

    People like money.

    And businesses are there to make money.

    As long as people are stupid enough to overpay for things there will always be others lined up to sell them as high as they can.

    #39 31 days ago

    If we raise the price of pinball enough to price out the poors, will that cut down the bitching? Pinball should only be for rich (moderately rich doesn't cut it anymore!) /s

    Sarcasm, folks.

    Hey, I think that people are nuts to buy LE's when you have the premiums but let people do what they do. Look at it this way: Flippers get on the lists and get the games because they buy volume from distros. If you want to get higher on the list, it is going to cost you. I know folks hate flippers but it is part of every hobby.

    #40 31 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Why does everyone just focus on LE prices as if that's the only game you can buy? They are limited to raise demand by design. If you don't like the limited madness then just buy a premium.

    4F3D7344-8BCF-4B1F-8B07-8287CDCA5644 (resized).jpeg
    #41 31 days ago

    Logistics time:

    - Powder coating $250
    - Art Blades $100
    - HD Glass upgrade $200
    - shitty speaker upgrade $50

    Premium MSRP $8,999
    LE MSRP $10,500 (for the lucky ones that were able to snag one)

    You nerds are spending 1k for a backglass with a stupid mirror on it presuming you got this for MSRP. Add on the extra 2k-4K flipper tax if you happen to not be down with a local distro, which makes it 3k-5k for a mirrored backglass vs. the premium.

    I used to feel like pinball folks are generally smart to be able to afford this kind of stuff, but I’m reconsidering lately. Would anybody like to buy a chromed out bridge? Asking for a friend.

    #42 31 days ago
    Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

    Logistics time:
    - Powder coating $250
    - Art Blades $100
    - HD Glass upgrade $200
    - shitty speaker upgrade $50
    Premium MSRP $8,999
    LE MSRP $10,500 (for the lucky ones that were able to snag one)
    You nerds are spending 1k for a backglass with a stupid mirror on it presuming you got this for MSRP. Add on the extra 2k-4K tax if you happen to not be down with a local distro, which makes it 3k-5k for a mirrored backglass vs. the premium.
    I used to feel like pinball folks are generally smart to be able to afford this kind of stuff, but I’m reconsidering lately. Would anybody like to buy a chromed out bridge? Asking for a friend.

    What jurisdiction charges 38% sales tax? I’d hate to live there!

    #43 31 days ago

    Ah crap was my math bad? Well, it’s probably NY state hahahha

    #44 31 days ago

    I mean flip tax btw hahha

    #45 31 days ago
    Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

    Ah crap was my math bad? Well, it’s probably NY state hahahha

    I was just joking. There are a few states that are around 9.5%, but that’s about the max.

    #46 31 days ago

    Hah all good. I’m terrible at communicating properly. Adjusted my earlier rant!

    #47 31 days ago

    Didn't expect to find an LE but my distributor called and hooked me up because a few on his list wouldn't get back to him. My intentions are to get the game an play the shit out of it but if there are people out there throwing crazy money on the table just for an LE, I won't hesitate to sell and just buy a premium. It sucks people are buying just to flip but I doubt that will make the "gotta have it at any price" people go away.

    #48 31 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Who gives a shit how other people spend their money. Pinball has always been crazy. It will get crazier and crazier.
    Enjoy the ride!

    No, it has NOT always been crazy. Back in the late 80's/early 90's, you bought the games from operators at VERY reasonable costs after they were routed for some time. I guess the craze came when different games were made in "limited edition" - models and people started wanted them in the house more often.

    #49 31 days ago

    It's okay to be priced out of an LE pinball. Your life will not be substantially poorer or less significant without it. It is the very definition of a luxury item and those with excess means will set the price.

    #50 31 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    LE's are easy to avoid, because it's the same gameplay as a premium. So if you are buying to actually play your game. Who gives a shit if LE's go for 20k or not? Buy the damn premium.

    THIS
    But it just seems so obvious.
    “Collector’s” chiming in in 3…..2…..

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