(Topic ID: 256796)

HEP Williams White Water Playfield Set


By Texasff78

7 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by Texasff78
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 days ago

Price

$ 1,000 (OBO)

Open for offers


for sale

HEP Williams White Water Playfield Set
Featured Ad

Added: December 3rd, 2019
Condition: New

Item description

This Mirco playfield was sent to Chris at High End Pins for clear coating. Unfortunately, by the time I opened the shipping box from HEP the Wet Willie's and Multi Million inserts had both developed hairline cracks at their tops. The rest of the clear coat looks amazing. Chris also T-nutted the playfield. The playfield itself was over 1000.00 and the clear coat was an additional 700.00. Willing to accept 1000.00 or best offer. Obviously, I will be losing quite a bit on this as is so not looking for any lowball offers. Willing to ship at buyer's expense. Will accept wire transfer, Venmo, or PayPal Friends and Family.

I had planned on eventually using this playfield in a restoration but do not have the time and will be selling most of the pinball parts I have and possibly a couple of games.


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Item location

Arlington, TX, US


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#2 6 days ago

What a shame ... fixable

#3 6 days ago

sand and reclear...

#4 6 days ago

Heat, then wet sand then high speed buff. Cracks gone.

#5 6 days ago

This makes me wish I still had a White Water. I miss this game. Good luck, great deal!

#6 6 days ago

Major bummer on the clear cracks. Assuming you opened the shipping box within 30-90 days of receiving the newly cleared PF's, I'm *shocked* Chris didn't offer take care of this for you!(especially if you offered to cover the shipping to/from HEP). A $700 clear shouldn't have large cracks in it when taken out of the box! If this damage occurred during a PF swap, that's another story (but that doesn't appear to be the case). Most buyers don't have the ability to "sand and reclear...".

#7 6 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Major bummer on the clear cracks. Assuming you opened the shipping box within 30-90 days of receiving the newly cleared PF's, I'm *shocked* Chris didn't offer take care of this for you!(especially if you offered to cover the shipping to/from HEP). A $700 clear shouldn't have large cracks in it when taken out of the box! If this damage occurred during a PF swap, that's another story (but that doesn't appear to be the case). Most buyers don't have the ability to "sand and reclear...".

If an insert shifts after it leaves here it is beyond my control because the work I do is on top of those surfaces. I always provide detailed pictures of the work after completion just to verify there are no issues at that time. That is all I can control
Sanding it down and reclearing it again is nothing to me and something I could easily do but sometimes it is just the moral of it and offers no guarantees it couldn’t happen again or somewhere else.
For “$700” you are paying for a service. That service was completed you are not buying a playfield guarantee. That would cost much more
Why should I be punished for something I have no control over?
How does this fall on me?
This is precisely the reason I quit doing playfield only work.

Here is the $700 service I performed on the playfield set.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/31#post-4725032

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/31#post-4725200

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/31#post-4725475

#8 6 days ago

My opinion is this is not hutch's fault. if a pf is less than 20 years old I dont worry about the insert glue job not being right. I dont believe this is just from insert expansion and contraction, which is common. That is when the insert lifts or drops a little and you can feel the insert under the clear (and see it). Some inserts do it some dont.
As long as chris was using the clear he usually uses, I would guess the inserts were not glued right, but thats my guess and it dosent help the seller. Just more opinion.
I have never seen it before but maybe if the clear was mixed wrong like a 4 was mixed like a 2 on accident. I did it once but caught myself before pouring it in my gun. So I have not seen if it looks normal but is brittle. Long shot but who knows.

#9 6 days ago

I dont know what those stupid imogies are but I was saying 4 to one mixed like a 2 to one

#10 6 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

My opinion is this is not hutch's fault. if a pf is less than 20 years old I dont worry about the insert glue job not being right. I dont believe this is just from insert expansion and contraction, which is common. That is when the insert lifts or drops a little and you can feel the insert under the clear (and see it). Some inserts do it some dont.
As long as chris was using the clear he usually uses, I would guess the inserts were not glued right, but thats my guess and it dosent help the seller. Just more opinion.
I have never seen it before but maybe if the clear was mixed wrong like a 4 was mixed like a 2 on accident. I did it once but caught myself before pouring it in my gun. So I have not seen if it looks normal but is brittle. Long shot but who knows.

Makes sense, but this outcome must be extremely rare (especially so soon after delivery).

Both you and Chris do world-class pinball restoration (and I know first-hand, since I've worked with both of you). The restoration/clear you did on my 40 year old NOS Paragon PF was stunning! In that instance (given the age), I remember how much work you did on setting/glueing the inserts.

From my perspective, both service providers and game manufacturers need to take care of their customers when rare events occur. If defects like this become more common (possibly because Mirco didn't glue/set the inserts properly), then restorers would have to spend more time on the inserts (or refuse to work with Mirco playfields, or charge more when working with them, or lower the bar to their clients, etc.).

If this were my PF, I'd sent it back to the restorer so they could figure out what went wrong (assuming there was some ambiguity). Living with these 2 major cracks wouldn't be an acceptable option...would be a "showstopper" for a PF swap. I'd actually be thankful that the cracks showed up prior to investing time in the swap (which is considerable).

#11 6 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Makes sense, but this outcome must be extremely rare (especially so soon after delivery).
Both you and Chris do world-class pinball restoration (and I know first-hand, since I've worked with both of you). The restoration/clear you did on my 40 year old NOS Paragon PF was stunning! In that instance (given the age), I remember how much work you did on setting/glueing the inserts.
From my perspective, both service providers and game manufacturers need to take care of their customers when rare events occur. If defects like this become more common (possibly because Mirco didn't glue/set the inserts properly), then restorers would have to spend more time on the inserts (or refuse to work with Mirco playfields, or charge more when working with them, or lower the bar to their clients, etc.).
If this were my PF, I'd sent it back to the restorer so they could figure out what went wrong (assuming there was some ambiguity). Living with these 2 major cracks wouldn't be an acceptable option...would be a "showstopper" for a PF swap. I'd actually be thankful that the cracks showed up prior to investing time in the swap (which is considerable).

If it were something I could take care of or control I gladly would and always do but not everything that happens is.
It isn’t about taking care of a customer it is about inheriting someone else’s problem.
Taking care of a customer is no problem.
Inheriting someone else’s problem is.

#12 6 days ago

I don’t think people should reclear Mirco playfields. Same thing happened on mine and I don’t blame anybody but I wouldn’t be willing to reclear them if I was in the business.

#13 6 days ago

The strange thing with this playfield was the fact it was over a year old Mirco when it was recleared by HEP. The inserts had no visible crack lines prior. Could just be timing but it did not begin to crack until it was recleared.

#14 6 days ago
Quoted from Texasff78:

The strange thing with this playfield was the fact it was over a year old Mirco when it was recleared by HEP. The inserts had no visible crack lines prior. Could just be timing but it did not begin to crack until it was recleared.

Not true.

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#15 6 days ago

Chris that was the mini playfield NOT the large playfield where the two inserts cracked. So yes true.

#16 6 days ago
Quoted from Texasff78:

Chris that was the mini playfield NOT the large playfield where the two inserts cracked. So yes true.

Any cracks in the mini now?

#17 5 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Any cracks in the mini now?

No inserts have moved or cracked in the mini playfield Chris. Unfortunately looking though your clear did not completely fill in the original insert line. It can clearly be seen with clear over it.

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#18 5 days ago
Quoted from Texasff78:

No inserts have moved or cracked in the mini playfield Chris. Unfortunately looking though your clear did not completely fill in the original insert line. It can clearly be seen with clear over it.[quoted image]

Yeah the material settled back in the crack after a years time. This is exactly why I wouldn’t waste the time and effort revisiting the main playfield at the time.
Playfields like these are just a can of worms and even if your happy the day you get it back it doesn’t mean you’ll be happy a year from now and there is no way to guard against it other than just to avoid them.
The playfield actually has a past here as is and I don’t think it is right to try and now make it seem like I am some how at fault or leaving someone high and dry when the truth is I only agreed to take it in as a favor at a discounted rate and you were already in a tight spot with it to start with.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/restoration-rough-water-to-white-water-#post-4612611

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/restoration-rough-water-to-white-water-#post-4613409

We did a CPR TAF together and that went fine and I bought a MM from you and that went fine
but sometimes things don’t go as well as we would like and there’s no science behind it nor investigation needed it’s nobody’s fault it just sucks.
I can live with that and have no hard feelings.
If someone were to buy this playfield set from you and wanted to send it back through here I would sand and clear it again as a goodwill gesture but I will never inherit this particular playfield as a problem of mine.

#19 5 days ago

Chris I didn’t blow you up on this until you started touting it as charity work and insinuated the main playfield inserts were already cracking. There were some slight waves in the clear on the lower left side when you got it. You make it sound like it was salvaged off the Titanic and you took on this job in order to save an orphanage.

I’ve had this playfield back from you for almost a year. I didn’t list this out of spite angry over what happened. I simply wouldn’t have time to deal with the repair myself in the near future. I didn’t mention the fact you were unwilling to fix it. You did. Do I think most people in your position would have offered to reclear the playfield? Absolutely. Do I think the clear “settled” into the crack you repaired? Not a chance. There is no way that much solvent cured out. The crack was minuscule when you got it and the insert hasn’t moved at all. This isn’t to say most of your work isn’t great. In this one case it wasn’t.

#20 5 days ago
Quoted from Texasff78:

Chris I didn’t blow you up on this until you started touting it as charity work and insinuated the main playfield inserts were already cracking. There were some slight waves in the clear on the lower left side when you got it. You make it sound like it was salvaged off the Titanic and you took on this job in order to save an orphanage.
I’ve had this playfield back from you for almost a year. I didn’t list this out of spite angry over what happened. I simply wouldn’t have time to deal with the repair myself in the near future. I didn’t mention the fact you were unwilling to fix it. You did. Do I think most people in your position would have offered to reclear the playfield? Absolutely. Do I think the clear “settled” into the crack you repaired? Not a chance. There is no way that much solvent cured out. The crack was minuscule when you got it and the insert hasn’t moved at all. This isn’t to say most of your work isn’t great. In this one case it wasn’t.

Lol!
Wet willys orphanage. It was absolutely at a discounted rate of $650 for the pair including t nutting. Time,materials and even t nuts cost money so I can’t lose money doing something even if it is a favor and this is two playfields not one.
The work I do is a process. That process gets carried out the same way each and every time
There isn’t a good job or a bad one there can be a better or worse outcome based on factors I DO NOT CONTROL.
The playfield set left here looking perfect or else I would not bother sending it out at all.
This is what I am trying to explain to you.
It isn’t an issue between us personally.
I am always willing to help and work with anyone but please understand that it was two months after I shipped the playfield that you stated you notice these flaws that makes it difficult to be of much help.
If it were the day Or week you received it then no questions asked I would have ate it but two months after is tough to swallow even if you say you just opened it I have no idea if it actually arrived that way after so much time passes and you would find others would feel the same most likely.

#21 5 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Lol!
Wet willys orphanage. It was absolutely at a discounted rate of $650 for the pair including t nutting. Time,materials and even t nuts cost money so I can’t lose money doing something even if it is a favor and this is two playfields not one.
The work I do is a process. That process gets carried out the same way each and every time
There isn’t a good job or a bad one there can be a better or worse outcome based on factors I DO NOT CONTROL.
The playfield set left here looking perfect or else I would not bother sending it out at all.
This is what I am trying to explain to you.
It isn’t an issue between us personally.
I am always willing to help and work with anyone but please understand that it was two months after I shipped the playfield that you stated you notice these flaws that makes it difficult to be of much help.
If it were the day Or week you received it then no questions asked I would have ate it but two months after is tough to swallow even if you say you just opened it I have no idea if it actually arrived that way after so much time passes and you would find others would feel the same most likely.

Chris we significantly discounted the Medieval Madness pinball that was shipped to you the same time this playfield set was. You seem to be a little confused on what favors and charity are. The final text exchange discussing price is below. It consisted of me asking how much it would be, you saying 650, and me shipping the playfield with the game. Since we discounted the MM $700.00 for you I am guessing that means we should be put in for some sort of humanitarian award?

You were getting a MM to restore for a customer which I am sure you charged handsomely for. You’re running a business and I don’t fault you for that at all but it’s ridiculous to call this clear coat a favor especially with how the playfields turned out.

Your text pictured below regarding the upper playfield seems to indicate you noticed an issue with the upper playfield after your first clear job, kept it a little longer to try and fix it, and failed. It had to be shipped separately.

Your main points in this thread seem to be:

Every job you’ve ever done is exactly the same and without flaw

Your clear coats are suited for already perfect playfields

Mircos playfields are at fault yet you continue to clear coat them for people

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