(Topic ID: 225528)

HEP This Week 8-3-2020


By High_End_Pins

1 year ago



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Topic poll

“EBD Trim legs will be black regardless ”

  • Stainless/Factory 35 votes
    31%
  • Blacked out 54 votes
    48%
  • Painted Gold matched to cabinet 24 votes
    21%

(113 votes)

This poll has been closed.

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#3951 1 year ago

WW proto 3

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#3952 1 year ago

I have to say that you do phenomenal work. Your attention to detail is unmatched, but with that said, I don't know if I'd ever be able to send you a machine. Not because I wouldn't love to have one of mine re-done, but I'd be afraid to touch the damn thing for fear of screwing it up.

#3953 1 year ago

Chris, for the underside of the play-field do you spray it at all to protect the scribbling's from the techs or is it a matter of they lasted this long no need to do anything?

#3954 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I have to say that you do phenomenal work. Your attention to detail is unmatched, but with that said, I don't know if I'd ever be able to send you a machine. Not because I wouldn't love to have one of mine re-done, but I'd be afraid to touch the damn thing for fear of screwing it up.

I wouldn't be - Chris rebuilds these machines to be played, they probably stay pristine for more games than anything from a factory.

I do get it from an art appreciation standpoint though... maybe that just means you need two HEP copies of every pin

#3955 1 year ago
Quoted from pzy:

I wouldn't be - Chris rebuilds these machines to be played, they probably stay pristine for more games than anything from a factory.

I didn't mean it that way, I meant I'd probably scratch the cabinet, spill a beer on it, or do something else stupid.

#3956 1 year ago

Folded up the WW proto
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Picked Maverick up from the groomers20E6A829-026A-436F-B35D-F6EEB93E1CDC (resized).jpeg
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Started planting some replacement plants and working on that mound of saw dust then got poured on. image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

Cleaned up and poured this one F2D47E11-6F7E-4F22-B21D-E6F7743A4BD6 (resized).jpeg

Now it is time to zero in on another project
I am pretty committed to finishing Spirit 1 up finally.
It has been a huge challenge having had cabinets made,stencils made ,sending the playfield off to Mirco and the waiting.
I even got hooked up with a couple new back glasses
The owners have been mostly patient although I doubt they fully understand how much leg work has went into this never mind the actual labor.

image (resized).jpg
#3957 1 year ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Cleaned up and poured this one

wasnt a big fan of that one, let me know your thoughts!

#3958 1 year ago
Quoted from meSz:

wasnt a big fan of that one, let me know your thoughts!

Me either. It has a a slightly bitter finish.
Going to try this next. Have had it before but wasn’t crazy about it either. My wife thought I liked it though so we will see. It is aged a year longer now. Might help.
image (resized).jpg

#3959 1 year ago

Going with the Pascal all in one board.
It will eliminate 3 of the originals.

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It goes in place of the driver v5F2F23FE-27C5-476B-9B96-2D4060D13424 (resized).jpeg

Good thing 83597977-2771-4E1A-AC77-0F9A23302373 (resized).jpeg
In place

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#3960 1 year ago

Now to start prepping the new playfield.
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I put the original back in the cabinet for a bit while I compare the two.
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I have had the replacement about a month and the clear is settling I anticipated that but when delivered it had no issues at all.

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#3961 1 year ago

With that clear settling it means I will need to sand and recleared. I don’t need nor want perfectly flat but just something a bit more flowing.
Definitely beats the original at this point even with the clear settlement.

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#3962 1 year ago

The Spirit Will have to wait until tomorrow. It is dinner time.

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#3963 1 year ago

Can't wait to pick up the Whirlwind.

Chris has been doing games for me for a long time now. They go in the house and get played. I grew up in the game business forty years ago and worked for big distributors and operators and I unboxed many games. When I get games from Chris they always play the way they were intended to play, which most production machines needed help to get to that level out of the box. They always last better than production machines before something breaks, too. But they're still pinball machines...it's okay to enjoy them.

--Donnie

#3964 1 year ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

Can't wait to pick up the Whirlwind.
Chris has been doing games for me for a long time now. They go in the house and get played. I grew up in the game business forty years ago and worked for big distributors and operators and I unboxed many games. When I get games from Chris they always play the way they were intended to play, which most production machines needed help to get to that level out of the box. They always last better than production machines before something breaks, too. But they're still pinball machines...it's okay to enjoy them.
--Donnie

It's good you play them, and don't let them go to waste! Glad there's more games in the area

#3965 1 year ago

Next up is this TZ.
I think it is the last TZ I have here right now which is rare. Seems like there is always a couple waiting but I have been pretty focused on them so I can put my TZ folders and bins up for a while.
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This is the game that will get the NOS playfield.
The owner wants to leave the cabinet as is but switch the trim to black.
image (resized).jpg

Good thing
About the trim because it looks like the cabinet took a shove from the left.
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I am a little concerned about the head. There is very mild fade on the right lower I can live with and clean it up
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But the head has overspray.
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Chips scratches and fade

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Add to that the face grain and broken joints and I think I might be better off building up a new head to install on the original lower. Sometimes replacement is a better solution than 100 band aids
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#3966 1 year ago

Glass off.
Original playfield is better than most. C4AC16DF-1FAA-4BA2-904D-5CB430716201 (resized).jpeg
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This is probably because of what looks to be a factory applied Mylar.
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Pretty average otherwise. 564B7948-08E0-4ACB-B70F-DF8343BC5B65 (resized).jpeg

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#3967 1 year ago

That TZ playfield does not look bad at all.......

#3968 1 year ago

Inside isn’t terrible either.
Typical sloppiness and corrosion.
Some writing on the connectors

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#3969 1 year ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

That TZ playfield does not look bad at all.......

It really isn’t. Has been in storage for almost 15 years I believe.
I get all kinds of stuff in here from absolute garbage all the way to NIB so I just have to assess each one and see what the owner has in mind in order to make it something we can both feel comfortable with.

#3970 1 year ago

I bet you've done a ton of TZ. What's your favorite and least favorite machines to work on? Does a machine ever come in and your like "Aww not another one of these!"?

#3971 1 year ago

Translite is decent. A little browned with the almost expected lamp panel catch rub.
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Boards are good originals I pulled the battery holder when it came in because the batteries were swelling.
Then pulled the driver the other day to send it out with some other boards to be serviced.

#3972 1 year ago

What are your plans for the translite? Is it possible to repair/patch the white backing for damage like that?

#3973 1 year ago
Quoted from edward472:

I bet you've done a ton of TZ. What's your favorite and least favorite machines to work on? Does a machine ever come in and your like "Aww not another one of these!"?

I would say TAF is my favorite because I have done many and they are almost always beat so the transformation is rewarding.
Least favorite are EMs and Gottlieb System 80s.
Not that I don’t like either but beyond the cosmetics which are universal. The tech side can be more frustrating after the build although I am getting more and more experienced with both.

#3974 1 year ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

What are your plans for the translite? Is it possible to repair/patch the white backing for damage like that?

First break it down 617AD1DE-E588-4E0B-9731-1128EDF29D13 (resized).jpeg

08EFF8E0-D4BA-418C-98E9-5F9E14383E61 (resized).jpeg
Then wet it.
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Now spray it with diluted orange cleaner.
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Now rinse. Do not wipe at all.
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Now lightly pat and air dry

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#3975 1 year ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

First break it down [quoted image]
[quoted image]
Then wet it.
[quoted image]
Now spray it with diluted orange cleaner.
[quoted image]
Now rinse. Do not wipe at all.
[quoted image]
Now lightly pat and air dry[quoted image][quoted image]

Door latch marks, I usually paint black and then white over the patch.
I make dots or circles, seems to look factory? Or factory defect, lol

#3976 1 year ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I don’t need nor want perfectly flat

Why can a playfield be too flat again? Because ball skids instead of rolls?

If that’s the case, that’s more about the surface smoothness isn’t it than about how level (flat) the playfield is?

Perhaps there is even a process that could leave a less smooth surface (orange peel or something) that could impart best roll qualities on the ball?

Your thoughts?

#3977 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Why can a playfield be too flat again? Because ball skids instead of rolls?
If that’s the case, that’s more about the surface smoothness isn’t it than about how level (flat) the playfield is?
Perhaps there is even a process that could leave a less smooth surface (orange peel or something) that could impart best roll qualities on the ball?
Your thoughts?

It can be too flat compared to an original which is what all players tend to judge how well a restored game plays against a routed one.
I think people are slamming way too much clear on playfields these days and bragging about it when really they are creating more problems.
Some clear is good too much is bad.
I will use three examples to highlight what I am thinking or basing it on.
First is a used Diamond Plated Whirlwind. Uncleaned and uncoated.
image (resized).jpg

In the right light you can pick up all common shot paths
Around the loops image (resized).jpg
Out of the multiball lock image (resized).jpg

To the scoops image (resized).jpg

This creates almost like a memory for the ball and as it has made these grooves the shots have become easier or more reliable to make.
This will play easier because the path is worn just like walking down a nature trail.

#3978 1 year ago

Next we have an NOS Dr Dude that I have cleared image (resized).jpg
Like the original Whirlwind the coating is not overly thick and you can still see and feel the inserts. Not raised or too low but simply that your hand can occasionally feel the difference when you go from wood to plastic.
This is much more in tune and adaptable to the factory finish it will produce a game that wears well and plays well.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3979 1 year ago

The final playfield I will use to highlight that too much clear will not ultimately solve insert bordering and only makes things worse.
It is a Centaur repro

image (resized).jpgIt was done by highly regarded playfield clear coater
As far as the clear itself it is fine but there is just way too much of it for my purposes of building a good playing game.
Even with the enormous amount of clear on it the inserts still have sunken edges. The thickness of the clear makes it look worse because it deepens it.
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
The next issue is there is little hope of getting these insert roll overs dialed in and functioning properly without damaging the finish
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The last thing is despite such a thick clear and I am sure thorough process the grain is coming right back through.
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Now before anyone starts bashing or defending I used to do this exact style of clear coating. I am living in a glass house here but I do not do it anymore because of the things I learned along the way not just clearing playfields but also being tasked with assembling them,getting the games playing properly and customer/community feedback over the years.
The point is most issues like insert bordering or wood graining can only be solved short term so there is no reason to over clear something or wait ridiculous amounts of time because game play and surface durability will suffer and those issue cosmetically will probably return.
The chances of reasonably breaking this finish into a decent player is pretty slim.

#3980 1 year ago

The translite is now dry and can be touched up.
Since the wear is only through the white coating not the art
It can be touched up with white base coat because we are touching up the light blocking or balancing element not the art itself
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I only want to touch up the bare spots. Anything past that will make it too dark because it is doubling the light blocking 0801EEA0-EA62-419F-A8E1-482C5B93BB9A (resized).jpeg

Now we can check the transparency.
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Looks good cleaned the glass and refinished the channels since none were broken then reassembled.

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#3981 1 year ago

What product do you use for the white touch up? I recently fried a T2 translite by wiping instead of rinsing the cleaner. Removed large sections of the white layer. The translite now looks like it's printed on tissue paper.

#3982 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

What product do you use for the white touch up? I recently fried a T2 translite by wiping instead of rinsing the cleaner. Removed large sections of the white layer. The translite now looks like it's printed on tissue paper.

Automotive White base coat. As long as the art is still there you can lay it face down and mist a light coat of base to refrost it.
I have done that with excellent results on some seriously damaged translites. You are looking to just put that filtering element back on there.

The cleaning method I use works great but you must wet first.
Dilute the cleaner.
Only spray once with a large mist not stream
Rinse with cold water only.
No rubbing at all until the white layer dries because what you are actually doing is somewhat reactivating it.

#3983 1 year ago

Thanks Chris, much appreciated.

#3984 1 year ago

Back to Spirit 1.
I am going to prep the new playfield set for clear.
Before I do that I want to verify and make some adjustments to the wire guide holes.
These can be pretty unforgiving so any issues need to be spotted and addressed before sanding(shaving)-and clearing.image (resized).jpg
Starting at the bottom and working up.
image (resized).jpg
Holes are there but I want the top ply only oversized so it has no risk of cracking not chipping on install. image (resized).jpg

The barbs are what will keep it tight but what will also chip it going in
image (resized).jpg
Just at a glance it is highly likely this is a disaster waiting to happen without provisions being made.
image (resized).jpg
On Spirit there are 16 or possibly more of these sire guides so The is 32 potential problems if not addressed.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3985 1 year ago

How will I deal with that?

I pick a drill bit as large as the footprint from the barbs in the old playfield. image (resized).jpg
I test it on the old playfield by running it backwards.
image (resized).jpg
I only want to clear out the top layer allowing the barbs to pass through the top layer but then bite in to the following layers. image (resized).jpg
Tapped back in to the old. Nice and tight image (resized).jpg
But there is clearance and no concerns with chipping.
image (resized).jpg
I will apply this technique to the new playfield. By doing so preclear it leaves the ability to seal the holes once enlarged back up.

image (resized).jpg
#3986 1 year ago

The holes are drilled then the guide is is pre installed. E9B31272-374F-47D6-A12B-0A1AD2CBD2B3 (resized).jpeg
E340F48B-EF30-4DBD-B9A8-D8F3813E44A3 (resized).jpeg
This creates a footprint and path for the guide to go into later after the playfield is reworked and it also does any damage it could to the original surface pre rework not after.
That means when I sand and level if any touch ups are needed it can be handled.

10742B44-DFA0-4D96-9AAA-C3212041F788 (resized).jpegF634B394-66B7-4012-80B7-10429BEF31FD (resized).jpeg
#3987 1 year ago

I will continue this process all the way around. image (resized).jpg
Then I will check the larger ones.
image (resized).jpg
Then pre install the screw in wood post style shown as these too can easily lift a finish or ply if not accounted for.

image (resized).jpg
#3988 1 year ago

Wireguides are done.
image (resized).jpg
These are examples of what it looks like when they are installed then pulled.
After I sand and reclearing it will level out then the wireguides will only be going in not coming out. image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
Next will be the screw in post
Right off the bat I spot this is a missing hole on the Mirco.
image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg
I measure it out using easy landmarks or pulling points for the tape measurer.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3989 1 year ago

It is then marked and drilled.
image (resized).jpg
Now the post is pre installed.
image (resized).jpg
This process does a lot of things.
I am verifying locations
I am removing the parts from the old
I am creating a path in the new playfield.
I am dealing with any damage assembly could create upfront and then fixing it if needed so it will not actually happen during the true final assembly.

#3990 1 year ago

All screw in post are located and pre installed

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3991 1 year ago

Now removed
I can see what needs work

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#3992 1 year ago

The playfield can be sanded now.
I want to work the insert and pre assembly issues out.

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#3993 1 year ago

The playfield is sanded aggressively with 320.
I prefer the randomness of machine sanding to the trenching of block sanding.
Block sanding is great on cabinets and show cars but it doesn’t provide the finish I am looking for on playfields.
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Sanding begins and the high spots and low spots become obvious

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#3994 1 year ago

The issues are taken care of through sanding

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#3995 1 year ago

Next I want to put a slight chamfer on the capture holes.
As designed this will chip easily because they have sharp edges.
470EFF1D-A670-4BDD-B545-63B1FB78E10B (resized).jpeg
A wooden dowel is wrapped in sandpaper
01313A69-A980-4C3B-AA9C-F827C6310037 (resized).jpeg
It is carefully run around the sharp outer edges. 7EB5A9D9-88D0-42AE-BF0A-C1173EBC52B5 (resized).jpeg
The result is a very slight bevel7D61F9F4-B873-4F65-A03D-AD5BDF4E0560 (resized).jpeg
This will be sealed up with clear but give the ball a smoother roll in and out which will help prevent chipping at these holes. There’s four of them so it is really important. 2176C7BB-8402-43F7-A597-AB2F2DC5B38D (resized).jpeg

#3996 1 year ago

The playfield is cleaned and ready to clear after some minor touch ups from the pre assembly and releveling process. image (resized).jpg
The benefits of reclearing now are that the playfield has settled but not too much.
The finish provided was still in a flexible state so things that might chip in a couple months only indent now.
By clearing now with the curing window of the existing finish still slightly open my own finish can better bond with it not simply ride on top of it later.

#3997 1 year ago

The smaller playfield is done the same way.
Time to clear them.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3998 1 year ago

Cleared.
We will see how that percolates after a few days.
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#3999 1 year ago

seeing those 4 fluorescent light reflections is like the official HEP cleared stamp lol

#4000 1 year ago

Chris, some questions

1) on the wire guides... I wonder if you could get like a scroll saw blade and maybe run it in the holes to pre-cut some of the grooves? The barbs on those posts look quite big.. I wonder if a 'middle ground' might help in that if you reduced the size of the barbs (without removing them entirely) could help by reducing how much they displace, while still offering their original purpose. Because the groove portion is still going to be a high risk area as you reinstall (or future removals). Will you try to remove some of the clear from the barb 'line' like a star rollover before reinstall?

2) People are having a real problem with the recent POTC playfields from Mirco with the clear being soft and being excessively pushed into mounts by the clamping force of screws/posts. I noticed in your spirit staging, that you got some pretty noticeable mounts even in your staging work.. and from here, it didn't look like just wood movement. Did you notice anything soft or more pushing of the clear on these vs other PFs? In one example, someone could even push their finger nail into the finish on a POTC field.

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