(Topic ID: 225528)

HEP This Week 1-20-2020


By High_End_Pins

1 year ago



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  • 366 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by High_End_Pins
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Topic poll

“EBD Trim legs will be black regardless ”

  • Stainless/Factory 35 votes
    31%
  • Blacked out 54 votes
    48%
  • Painted Gold matched to cabinet 24 votes
    21%

(113 votes)

This poll has been closed.

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#5701 44 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

BH is about as far as it goes for now.
I finished working over the pop bumper “touch ups”
[quoted image]
Now I can copy the coin door for my Spirit 2 rebuild. I know Bally doors,Williams door by heart but not these.[quoted image]

Thanks for these updates! It's always really helpful for me to see somebody else's process on these sorts of things.

#5702 44 days ago

The Spirit 2 mini playfield has various condition issues.

The main ones are the tin like trim for the surround is bent up in a way that makes plating or polishing impossible because it needs to be filled. A127D49B-B830-407E-AA57-6BEB6F4A1B22 (resized).jpeg
The other is just pitted549AD42D-0828-46B0-B712-033940EEDC61 (resized).jpeg

The small pivot brackets are corroded badly.
AC86EC3F-E81E-4480-8930-1A95AB2777AD (resized).jpeg

Best solution for me on this today is to blast them. 80CE51BC-3C1A-4AAC-9E0D-56D6246B9C24 (resized).jpeg
Straighten then black Metal etch
86CDD544-B22F-44D1-999D-0D8E069AEA9E (resized).jpeg

After they dried it gave a much cleaner look to the part and knowing what it is and where it goes helps with the decision making.
35D45E6D-3FC6-4BC9-8368-E1CAFCEDCB8C (resized).jpegA07FF8A7-0B16-4314-B51A-9B9B528856B1 (resized).jpeg

#5703 44 days ago

Now for the assembly.
I clean and polish as I go.
Making some changes

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#5704 42 days ago

Finished the Spirit 2 upper playfield.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5705 42 days ago

The Black hole shop out is complete.
Not sure if it is common knowledge but the replacement blue window I received did not fit
it was too big and had to be carefully shaved and shaped to fit.
I got that from Marco.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5706 42 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

The Black hole shop out is complete.
Not sure if it is common knowledge but the replacement blue window I received did not fit
it was too big and had to be carefully shaved and shaped to fit.
I got that from Marco.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted

The windows are correct, it was variance in the playfields. I have shopped a half dozen Black Holes and only one replacement window fit 100%. The reat I had to shave down to fit.

Pin looks Great. I love seeing this era of pin working. Was always my favorite game.

#5707 42 days ago

I think it's safe to say Marco's parts are becoming more and more garbage. As pinball enthusiasts, we should all be vocal to them about this.

#5708 41 days ago

I don’t know if you covered this before. With your restorations what do you do for all the factory stickers. Like model and serial tags, all the little s/n tags, inspection tags? If you don’t want to make public you can pm me.

#5709 41 days ago
Quoted from nitrojcrawf:

I don’t know if you covered this before. With your restorations what do you do for all the factory stickers. Like model and serial tags, all the little s/n tags, inspection tags? If you don’t want to make public you can pm me.

I have wondered the same.

#5710 40 days ago
Quoted from nitrojcrawf:

I don’t know if you covered this before. With your restorations what do you do for all the factory stickers. Like model and serial tags, all the little s/n tags, inspection tags? If you don’t want to make public you can pm me.

There are a couple people on here that make these by request.
The generic ones like fuse,power outlet etc I keep a stock of.
The really specific ones like the serial tags I include if I can or they are requested.

#5711 40 days ago

I was pretty busy over the weekend. With the holiday coming up and all that but I managed to get a few things done here and there.

First up is Spirit 2s transformer panel.

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#5712 40 days ago

Then I have been working through the POTO coil assemblies.
Right now I am just in a run of train wrecks and it can be really hard to get any momentum going when everything you touch needs so much extra attention outside of what is already really tedious and time consuming work.

I know there was some question earlier about having the multi part brackets plated as one piece instead of a total breakdown.
As I mentioned at that time this is done to protect the threads and keep the piece count down/parts reasonably easy to keep up with for the plater.
Now that I have them back I am able to break them down and install new screws.
For a coil bracket application it works very well and keeps the part from being ruined if it were strictly based on appearance not a mechanical part I would take a different approach.

062C6244-F18D-4D6C-8C19-8E65BA57BF8B (resized).jpeg82E29DCC-FAD0-4657-BC74-9ABEDD071B4E (resized).jpeg433D0D97-6437-4C76-B892-30E6178A195F (resized).jpegFC447C3D-B6A0-4B46-9BBA-F4A4E142E176 (resized).jpeg5F0F56F6-FDDD-44BA-B78B-9C3EFAB4E054 (resized).jpegDDB4E520-0A4A-4077-A00B-977ACD384A3D (resized).jpeg0112A46F-FF11-420D-8C65-2811A9D69A85 (resized).jpeg
#5713 40 days ago

POTO flippers.
These were trashed

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#5714 40 days ago

Then there are the POTO pops and slings.
I had to start off with new pop bumper assemblies and then adapt them for the Data East switch stacks.

The slings were beat. I used clear tubing to protect the pivots and c clip slots from plating.
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#5715 39 days ago

I finally made it through the POTO coils.
That was a job.
The assemblies were all butched together,wrong screws,wrong springs wrong plungers,broken ball cups could be found on nearly every one.
Stuff like that plus the metal conditioning makes a job that should take a couple hours take a couple days.
Even the trough switch plate had to be done.

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#5716 39 days ago

So the one thing left to figure out and address on the POTO is the apron
image (resized).jpg
It’s not in terrible condition but it also isn’t going to be in good enough condition to match up with the rest of the game once completed.
The biggest issue is the chalkiness of the gold
It is very fragile.
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There is a scratch in the lettering as well
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The trough entrance is a bit hammered.
image (resized).jpg

The first steps will be to clean it but I already know from past experience that this gold like color on the apron is going to be hard to deal with and I may have to make some changes if I want to get a better overall look.

#5717 39 days ago

The burr is ground off the Aron. These tend to nick the surface of the balls up.
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The apron was then blacked out and cleared.
98609FBE-B60C-4E13-818F-30DC589D84EA (resized).jpeg

#5718 39 days ago

The playfield for the Poto has settled very well I could easily sand and polish it and begin assembling and that was my plan
75DB82C1-6804-4280-AB96-9163B78A47AC (resized).jpeg
I did notice two things though that are more obvious as the clear settled in and everything gels together
There is a little insert settling in the phantoms hat area.
Very tough to spot unless the light hits it just right. I could work with that but I also notice a break in the black. BEC61EC9-167F-414C-9EB1-8FE36DC2A959 (resized).jpeg
One other concern is that there are just a couple lines of deeper grain settlement. 254999C1-4AE5-4B45-BE9B-9503C58BC181 (resized).jpeg
Those two things are enough to make me decide to hit this one more time since I am doing the apron now anyway.
Sanded 4133ED12-8584-4DDC-A92C-99B08DA15E19 (resized).jpeg

Masked and painted
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Cleared for the final time. Just lightly at this point because the heavier coats earlier in the process have built the foundation. This is just detail work.

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#5719 39 days ago

The other playfield in the mix right now is the poorly stored NOS BSD

That one also could easily go as is after sanding and polishing but again I feel like I can squeeze just a little more out of it.
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There is a faint line in Dracs hair A0CDB739-1831-4C6F-B604-E7D77147379E (resized).jpeg
Small divot that was previously a deep gouge

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Sanded F7510B95-078B-4DF7-AACD-C7D59BB8D60D (resized).jpeg
Masked and painted
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Cleared.

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#5720 39 days ago

chris,
does jetsy offer a set of stencils for the PotO apron? that would be killer if he did and you could re-do it just like a cabinet

lots of weeding though

#5721 38 days ago

Starting to close in on Spirit 2.

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#5722 38 days ago

New beer shipment has arrived just in time for Christmas.
Going with the CBS tonight.

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#5723 38 days ago

umm chris… the canadian mountie appears to have fallen of his horse on your bottle. was it the 11.3% that caused him to do so?

#5724 38 days ago
Quoted from j_m_:

the canadian mountie appears to have fallen of his horse on your bottle.

I think they got sued or were asked to stop using the mountie. It's no longer Canadian Breakfast Stout, it's just CBS. I thought Canadians were supposed to be polite!

#5725 38 days ago
Quoted from j_m_:

umm chris… the canadian mountie appears to have fallen of his horse on your bottle. was it the 11.3% that caused him to do so?

Yeah but it’s what’s inside that counts

#5726 37 days ago

I love seeing your work posted. It makes my work look like I'm just dickin' around, and i love it!

Very inspiring

-Paul

#5727 36 days ago

OK. I'm throwing in the towel. I need advice. I am restoring a pin and love how HEP puts plugs on coils and switches underneath the playfield. I have looked everywhere through this thread and countless sites online and I can't seem to find a standardized molex configuration. Hopefully it's something so simple that I'm just missing. Trying to determine which wire goes into the pointed end of the molex plug. I thought I've see it both ways... The positive in the point? The negative in the point? I tried blowing up pictures to see the band on the diode to see if there was a consistent side for the plug.

I've see Chris even reverse the male and female pins so that someone couldn't plug in the wrong coil/switch. Is the pin/wire placement random or is there a system people follow? Thanks.

#5728 36 days ago
Quoted from hd60609:

OK. I'm throwing in the towel. I need advice. I am restoring a pin and love how HEP puts plugs on coils and switches underneath the playfield. I have looked everywhere through this thread and countless sites online and I can't seem to find a standardized molex configuration. Hopefully it's something so simple that I'm just missing. Trying to determine which wire goes into the pointed end of the molex plug. I thought I've see it both ways... The positive in the point? The negative in the point? I tried blowing up pictures to see the band on the diode to see if there was a consistent side for the plug.
I've see Chris even reverse the male and female pins so that someone couldn't plug in the wrong coil/switch. Is the pin/wire placement random or is there a system people follow? Thanks.

Doesn't really matter as long as you're consistent on your machines, IMO. It's just to keep you from getting connections backwards. Since it's not a factory thing (except for recent pins by AP, etc), it's open to invention.

#5729 36 days ago
Quoted from hd60609:

OK. I'm throwing in the towel. I need advice. I am restoring a pin and love how HEP puts plugs on coils and switches underneath the playfield. I have looked everywhere through this thread and countless sites online and I can't seem to find a standardized molex configuration. Hopefully it's something so simple that I'm just missing. Trying to determine which wire goes into the pointed end of the molex plug. I thought I've see it both ways... The positive in the point? The negative in the point? I tried blowing up pictures to see the band on the diode to see if there was a consistent side for the plug.
I've see Chris even reverse the male and female pins so that someone couldn't plug in the wrong coil/switch. Is the pin/wire placement random or is there a system people follow? Thanks.

when I did it on the joust playfield swap that I just recently completed, I tried to use the following standards
- always keep the common wire at the bottom of the connector (this gives you a visual sanity check) that you're not going to inadvertently reverse the [hot] wire and the ground from one coil to the next
- if the harness connectors that I added were in the same proximity as another same-type connector, this is where I started to vary the pins (pins on the coil side, socket on the harness side, or combinations there of when 3 or more were close enough that they could be accidentally plugged into each other
- I used 0.062 for switch and lamp connections and 0.093 for power (except where I was passing a harness through the playfield with a very short run and had a very small hole to push the connector through

the easiest way to do this is add the connectors to your existing harness one at a time with everything still in place. this way you can double-check your work immediately (rather than try and track down a potentially bad crimp, wire that has slid out of the connector, etc...)

#5730 36 days ago
Quoted from j_m_:

when I did it on the joust playfield swap that I just recently completed, I tried to use the following standards
- always keep the common wire at the bottom of the connector (this gives you a visual sanity check) that you're not going to inadvertently reverse the [hot] wire and the ground from one coil to the next
- if the harness connectors that I added were in the same proximity as another same-type connector, this is where I started to vary the pins (pins on the coil side, socket on the harness side, or combinations there of when 3 or more were close enough that they could be accidentally plugged into each other
- I used 0.062 for switch and lamp connections and 0.093 for power (except where I was passing a harness through the playfield with a very short run and had a very small hole to push the connector through
the easiest way to do this is add the connectors to your existing harness one at a time with everything still in place. this way you can double-check your work immediately (rather than try and track down a potentially bad crimp, wire that has slid out of the connector, etc...)

Excellent advice!

15
#5731 36 days ago
Quoted from hd60609:

OK. I'm throwing in the towel. I need advice. I am restoring a pin and love how HEP puts plugs on coils and switches underneath the playfield. I have looked everywhere through this thread and countless sites online and I can't seem to find a standardized molex configuration. Hopefully it's something so simple that I'm just missing. Trying to determine which wire goes into the pointed end of the molex plug. I thought I've see it both ways... The positive in the point? The negative in the point? I tried blowing up pictures to see the band on the diode to see if there was a consistent side for the plug.
I've see Chris even reverse the male and female pins so that someone couldn't plug in the wrong coil/switch. Is the pin/wire placement random or is there a system people follow? Thanks.

You can always make your own system as long as it is consistent and you put some fool proof provisions in to protect the components.
My system is pretty well thought out some of it is just what I absorbed from years of teardown other things implemented are common sense or wish list type items.
Here is a overview off the POTO harness since it is close by.
First coils.
.93 pins and either a two or three pin connector.
Generally two for regular coils with female pins on the main harness and male on the actual coil pigtail. image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
The common wire is always placed in the number one position or “tip”
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Three pins on the flipper or larger coils it’s the same female pin/male pin set up
image (resized).jpg

On the occasional situation where a coil plug must pass through a smaller hole a .62 set up is used.
This
image (resized).jpg
Must pass through here for example image (resized).jpg
Can’t be done with a .93

When it comes to the switches they are done on a .62 connector base and I order banks within the connectors exactly as they are laid out on the playfield.
Common tips followed by that order so for example. This connector is for the left mid target bank.
image (resized).jpg
Colors used are Green/Black(common each target shares this)
Top target White/Orange
Mid target White/Red
Bottom Target White/Brown

I noted this on the teardown playfield
image (resized).jpg
Then copied it to the assembly.
image (resized).jpg

Then ordered it the same way within the connector housing using pin 1 as the very top and working towards pin 4 as the very bottom just like the playfield layout.

Pin 1 Green/black(common)
Pin 2 White / orange(Top)
Pin 3 White /Red(Mid)
Pin 4 White /brown(Bottom)
image (resized).jpg
Doing this makes things make sense and easy to isolate or follow.
There is much more thought put into than that but I will leave it there for now.

#5732 36 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Doing this makes things make sense and easy to isolate or follow.
There is much more thought put into than that but I will leave it there for now.

Thanks, this is a ton of info. Pure gold.

10
#5733 35 days ago

Black hole was shuffled out and delivered. Right in time for Christmas.
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Judge Dredd arrived
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Now I am ready to prep Spirit 3 for paint then the POTO and BSD playfield for polishing.

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#5734 35 days ago

Spirit 3 cabinet is ready to start painting.
I will probably just do the base and speckles first then clear that before proceeding later in the week with the stenciling.
This is because the speckling can take some fine tuning ,creates a tougher texture initially and I don’t want any part of the stenciling to be hampered by that.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5735 35 days ago

Based in blue.

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#5736 35 days ago

Speckled.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5737 35 days ago

Cleared.

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#5738 35 days ago

POTO and BSD playfields are sanded and ready to polish.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5739 35 days ago

POTO playfield polished.
I will clean the holes then start prepping it for assembly.
BSD is also polished and will be prepped for shipping.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5740 35 days ago

Spirit 2 cabinet is moved into the final assembly space.

I painted a set of skids for it.Also the interior parts on this one for a little cleaner look.

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#5741 34 days ago

Looking forward to see the JD work as I have been putting off doing mine for nearly two years as there seems to be just some much stuff/ramps on the playfield!

10
#5742 34 days ago

Merry Christmas to you and your family, Chris.
Thank you for the greatest thread on pinside and I look forward to following along again next year!

#5743 34 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Merry Christmas to you and your family, Chris.
Thank you for the greatest thread on pinside and I look forward to following along again next year!

Thanks same to you!

#5744 34 days ago

Spirit 2 cabinet is slowly building up. These system 80s are a lot of work.
Everything is built like a tank and they use so many brackets and bolts to do so many things.
The condition of this one in particular has been adding to the workload.
Anything I need to reuse comes with rust,corrosion or a surprise. Sometimes all three like this part.

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#5745 34 days ago

What I am doing on these type of brackets that need to be reconditioned but still maintain threading and A good ground is to blast them.
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Then lightly metal etc. this will give them a decent look,protect from rusting and be light and thin enough to still thread and ground easily. B018FF4A-5365-4DBC-9E2B-0AA61A002FD6 (resized).jpeg
41247515-20C3-4E48-95DA-8BEDAC9B7E0E (resized).jpeg

After they are installed a full set of skids are installed.
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#5746 33 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Spirit 2 cabinet is slowly building up. These system 80s are a lot of work.
Everything is built like a tank and they use so many brackets and bolts to do so many things.
The condition of this one in particular has been adding to the workload.
Anything I need to reuse comes with rust,corrosion or a surprise. Sometimes all three like this part.[quoted image][quoted image]

Wow! I hope Spirit 4 (mine!) is less of a headache!

#5747 33 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Wow! I hope Spirit 4 (mine!) is less of a headache!

It Is probably about the same but might be a little better in the metal condition department.
In general I don’t do EMs or Gottliebs because I don’t have the infrastructure here to turn them out and support them like I do for the 70s and up solid state Bally Williams games.
Many of these parts had it been a Bally Williams game I would have spares of already plated,polished and ready to go.
Same thing with boards etc.
My knowledge and comfort level with those is much higher so I can get really deep into them without documenting or concerns and keep them moving through the process.
When I am dealing with games like this Spirit I have to do the best I can with what my resources are at the time or keep pushing it to the back of the line every time something pops up I don’t have or wasn’t expecting.
The need to document each and everything no matter how minor is also an issue.
The good news is on Spirit 2 I am able to go much deeper than I could on Spirit 1 and I am getting a much better understanding of how things are built and creating a system for that.
It is not that there is anything wrong in my eyes with EMs or these Gottliebs it is just simply that in the last almost 20 years only a handful of them have passed through here and you can’t build a knowledge base or infrastructure with such a limited exposure or demand.

#5748 33 days ago

Spirit 2 is continuing on.

The head is building up and almost ready to place in the lower.
These games use a very complex latching/locking system for the glass and lamp panel.
Locating and placing each and every bracket and part of that system accurately is tricky.
All measuring is done from the front because I had the cabinet heads built with 1/2 backs instead of the paper thin material originally used so the means if I were to measure from the back now everything would be roughly 3/8 off.
Lots of math there and something few could appreciate when just glancing at the game.
This is critical. If off the glass won’t lock or fit,the lamp panel won’t open correctly and the lock could be difficult to operate.

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#5749 33 days ago

The rear glass channel installs by sandwhiching between the rear spacer panel.
Countersink screws are used then touched up with the actual cabinets paint for a more seamless look.

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#5750 33 days ago

The old Spirit 2 line filter and cord are replaced then relocated within the new cabinet.

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