(Topic ID: 222199)

HEP presents a Tale of Two Medieval Madnesses


By High_End_Pins

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 604 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by mschonbrun
  • Topic is favorited by 108 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,318 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

096E16E2-E2B1-41F8-84A0-332FE049489E (resized).jpeg
IMG_7181 (resized).JPG
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

There are 604 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 13.
25
#1 8 months ago

Next HEP documentation will be the tale of two very different Medieval Madnesses.
This is a title that still comes in regularly despite the ability to buy a “new” one.
I will use it to highlight how different two games can be both in build from the factory and condition from use and maintenance.

image (resized).jpg
#2 8 months ago

We will call this MM 1image (resized).jpg

This will be MM 2
image (resized).jpg

#3 8 months ago

MM 1 from the factory has a purple cast to the cabinet.
image (resized).jpg

MM 2 has a blue cast to the cabinet.
image (resized).jpg

#4 8 months ago

MM 1 has a very bluish purple shade playfield.
image (resized).jpg
MM 2 has a more vivid purple shade
image (resized).jpg

#5 8 months ago

MM 1 is a wreck in a way that is hard to describe but I will try as I go.
The underside is always a good indicator. image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

MM 2 is in closer to what would be considered average condition using the underside as an indicator. This is always a good way to get a sense of the true condition or games life. image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

#6 8 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

despite the ability to buy a “new” one.

Has anybody sent you one of those new one's yet ? Ya know, maybe to re-ink the play field or fix those cabinet decals?

#7 8 months ago

Watching....this should be a good one!

#8 8 months ago

Wow, you can really see a difference in those colors when they're side by side.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Has anybody sent you one of those new one's yet ? Ya know, maybe to re-ink the play field or fix those cabinet decals?

Not yet. I have had many inquiries but it never seems to happen.
I think it is the price point that defeats the purpose when talking about reworking a remake right now .
I will say that I see LOTRs and TSPP now coming in and they were NIB games when I started doing this so time will tell.

#10 8 months ago

Subscribed. Here we go!

#11 8 months ago

Another great thread by HEP! Can't wait to see how these two turn out.

12
#12 8 months ago

These threads make me wish there was a HEP Garage show on cable. Thanks for taking the time to document your work.

#13 8 months ago

Love these threads, subbed!

#14 8 months ago

+1 following!

#15 8 months ago

+2 following!
Can’t wait to see it all!

#16 8 months ago

This is going to be great I’m in.

#17 8 months ago

Never heard of these differences. Was that because one was a prototype or early build?

#18 8 months ago

Starting with MM 1 we will go over conditions from the inside out.
This is without a doubt the worst MM I have seen. Not so much cosmetically but mechanically. Although the cosmetics are bad too.

Top to bottom.
At the flipper section underside I will do my best to show everything that is wrong compared to MM 2.

MM 1image (resized).jpg
MM 2
image (resized).jpg

MM 1 auto fire bracket broken and welded together crooked
image (resized).jpg

MM 2 autofire bracket as it should be image (resized).jpg

MM 1 flipper assemblies are complete garbage.
Wrong plungers,wrong switches,missing parts and more. image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

MM 2 has at least a respectable normal flipper set.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#19 8 months ago

Moving down
MM 1 slingshot section.
image (resized).jpg

Masking tape covered repairs
image (resized).jpg

A stripped down target used for a slingshot switch. image (resized).jpg

No such problems on MM 2

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#20 8 months ago

Center underside trolls and catapult area
MM 1 image (resized).jpg

The troll carriages are braised together,have the wrong screws and hardware image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

The catapult is peiced together with a nut and bolt for the plunger link. image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

Again no such problems on MM 2
image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#21 8 months ago

MM 1 jet bumper area.
image (resized).jpg

All three jet bumper coil assemblies are peiced together with homemade armatures , missing screws,wrong coils,taped together,welded brackets you name it. The only thing worse is if they were not there at all. Maybe!
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

MM 2 ? It is all there and correct.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#22 8 months ago

Wow!!!! I sincerely hope that whoever purchased MM 1 got it for a REAL good price....lucky for them all parts are now available due to MMr production, but still......Wow!!!

Would love to know a little history on MM 1!

#23 8 months ago

Now for the most area.
MM 1 continues to disappoint I have come to expect no less.

image (resized).jpg

The most is busted image (resized).jpg

The flasher bulbs have been relocated to the playfield instead of the moat image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

The moat popper is braised together. image (resized).jpg

MM 2 is all fine in comparison although the way the wiring is routed it is just begging to get smashed by the moat popper.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#24 8 months ago

Last for the underside of the playfield will be the drawbridge mech.
MM 1’s drawbridge could not possibly escape the hands of the butcher
Missing the plunger spring
image (resized).jpg

They cut part of the bracket away to make the wrong screw fit. Much better to do that than to source a better fitting screw image (resized).jpg

I dont even know about this myself at a glance only that it is wrong and will be revealed once removed. image (resized).jpg

MM 2
No problem s

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#25 8 months ago

Was MM1 a re-import?

With MM1, considering so many parts needing to be replaced and the cost associated (plus labor), isn't it just more cost effective to buy a new MMR instead?

Rob

#26 8 months ago

Inside cabinet MM 1image (resized).jpg

The first red flag
image (resized).jpg

The second one image (resized).jpg

Then just normal kind of. For it.
image (resized).jpg

MM 2 looks normal inside there apparently was an attempt to install a shaker so that is a plus being that it has the parts on hand.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#27 8 months ago

Both are US games with build dates less than 2 weeks apart.
MM 1
image (resized).jpg

MM 2

image (resized).jpg
#28 8 months ago

What I'm getting from this is that MM1 is a heavy use route game with a lot of "do what you have to" cheap repairs, and MM2 was either a low use route game or a home use game where it just didn't get beaten to the point of breaking a lot.

#29 8 months ago

Are there games so bad you refuse business? This looks like a very expensive restoration.

#30 8 months ago

At least all the hacked mechs should be available to buy these days.

#31 8 months ago

How are you ever going to restore MM 1 and yet retain the essence of it ? Color coordinated blue flipper coil shiny wrappers and yellow plastic plunger links. The brazed moat popper bracket with the rubber grommet on it when they brazed it. Pop bumper ring with the threads worn off and home made yokes. How will you ever plate that welded auto launch bracket ? The melted wire casings from a soldering iron.

As you take it apart, I wonder how many other surprises you'll find ?

Best wished Chris !
LTG : )

#32 8 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Are there games so bad you refuse business? This looks like a very expensive restoration.

From what I know, he can fix it all. So its not so much a matter of him refusing the business, but more so for the customer being willing to pay. I would presume the bill for #1 is gonna be a bit higher than for #2!!!!!!

#33 8 months ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

From what I know, he can fix it all. So its not so much a matter of him refusing the business, but more so for the customer being willing to pay. I would presume the bill for #1 is gonna be a bit higher than for #2!!!!!!

In this example it appears #1 is a piece of #2.......

#34 8 months ago

Are you actually more excited about #1 because there will be so much more a tangible difference after you've restored it compared to #2?

#35 8 months ago

I wonder if the difference in cabinet and playfield colors is due to sun/fading.

#36 8 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I wonder if the difference in cabinet and playfield colors is due to sun/fading.

No.

LTG : )

#37 8 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Inside cabinet MM 1[quoted image]
The first red flag
[quoted image]
The second one [quoted image]
Then just normal kind of. For it.
[quoted image]
MM 2 looks normal inside there apparently was an attempt to install a shaker so that is a plus being that it has the parts on hand.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I've got some parts that might help, if interested.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-nos-wpc-95-power-box-assembly

#38 8 months ago

Had to run over to the warehouse and grab my MM bin.
I am definitely going to need it and we haven’t even looked at the topside yet.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#39 8 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

No.
LTG : )

How can you say that for sure? Red is what really fades. The one that is more blue would just be lacking the red to make the purple, no?

#40 8 months ago

Following! Good luck Chris!

#41 8 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

How can you say that for sure? Red is what really fades. The one that is more blue would just be lacking the red to make the purple, no?

It would be weird to have the same fade on three sides. And the color difference on MM's has come up in the past.

LTG : )

#42 8 months ago

I'm sure the owner of MM 1 knows what they are in for. Sticker shock won't be the problem, I'm more worried for Chris.

#43 8 months ago

As far as the cabinet colors go, I thought about the red fading also, but then realized the actual red sections on each game are nice and bright still. Definitely looks like differences in production somehow.

#44 8 months ago
Quoted from shirkle:

As far as the cabinet colors go, I thought about the red fading also, but then realized the actual red sections on each game are nice and bright still. Definitely looks like differences in production somehow.

Not uncommon in playfields or cabinets. PFs more than cabinets as they seemed to have more suppliers for them.

#45 8 months ago

So will there be a big difference in cost between the 2 when done? Do you charge for used parts out of your bin? I'd hope so.

#46 8 months ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Do you charge for used parts out of your bin?

They might not be used. Could be parts ordered and then not used.

LTG : )

#47 8 months ago

I have seen and restored several MM’s with these two color variances in the cabinet and playfield. Some more purple and some more blue tint. Williams definitely had two different color variations printed for MM. Early MB games were more green while most production games were blue.

#48 8 months ago
Quoted from Mitch:

So will there be a big difference in cost between the 2 when done? Do you charge for used parts out of your bin? I'd hope so.

Probably not a huge difference between two outside of extra parts needs on MM 1
and around $500 in additional labor to offset the extra efforts needed.
Anything I have in the bin is free to the job because it is in hand and has no real cost or value to me right now outside of doing the best I can for these two games. Glad to donate it to the cause.

#49 8 months ago

Topside starting at the apron area
MM 1
image (resized).jpg

Apron has rust bubbles and a hardened clear glue(I HOPE that is what it is!)
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

MM 2
image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg
#50 8 months ago

Lower playfield flipper and sling area
MM 1
image (resized).jpg

Screws and hardware that are not worth salvaging. Corrosion that just does go away through tumbling or polishing. image (resized).jpg

Shield inserts trashed. image (resized).jpg

MM 2
image (resized).jpg

Hardware is reusable and should polish up nicely image (resized).jpg

This is where there starts to be some minor chinks in MM 2s armor
It has some insert bordering at the Magic Shield and chipping/ghosting at Sir Psycho
image (resized).jpg

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 999.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 16.00
$ 16.95
Playfield - Protection
ULEKstore
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 89.99
$ 25.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
$ 55.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
€ 3.70
$ 8.50
Lighting - Led
Bright Lights Pinball
From: $ 16.95
€ 95.00
Lighting - Led
FlipperLED
$ 87.00
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 22.00
10,500
Machine - For Sale
Arlington, TX
From: $ 19.50
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 98.00
Playfield - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 36.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
€ 9.10
$ 129.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
$ 11.95
$ 40.00
Lighting - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 604 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 13.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside