Arlington Heights, IL
ART!
(Topic ID: 213693)
Linked Games
Firepower
Williams, 1980
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Quoted from jawjaw:Thanks for all the pics and sharing the process. Absolutely stunning! Love the cab colors and the flawless shine of the playfield. Wish I could play it. How do those clear pop bodies light up? I would think not very well since bulbs mostly shine up but just curious.
These actually light up really well.
Quoted from mof:Questions on thought process:
1. How do you choose between custom forming a lexan piece below a middle plastic or going with corner round pieces?
2. Is protection still needed on the older games (like firepower) where the flippers just aren't as strong?
3. How do you choose between colored plastic nuts and other options?
thanks,
mof
I usually avoid plastic protectors in general because it can create fit issues but in this case I had a hard time finding a set so I noted what was broke and where at teardown and added the protections.
There are a couple things in place there.
The first is the dense target foam then the second is the plastic washer/protector.
That softens the blow(foam) and slightly raises the plastic (washer).
The color schemes and such are always changing and evolving as there are more options.
I usually just figure it out as I go with what I have on hand at the time or what looks to be working well.
Quoted from Frippertron:The only problem is that I would be afraid to play it! As Todd Tuckey likes to say, this is the nicest Firepower on planet Earth! Blown away, as usual. You should start a pinball restoration academy or something. Professor HEP take my money!
The only time I am afraid to play these games is before I take the final pictures after that I cannot wait
It is nice to give the game a new life but it would be worthless if you can’t use it or it doesn’t play well.
Today I will spend most of the day playing it making adjustments as needed. They are very few because the effort put in during the build but as it gels together with use it feels and plays better and better so using it is the best thing you can do from this point on.
You inspired me to tinker with firepower last night.
I found out I can light up the right outlane plastic through the ten point hole with a flex, better than nothing. I wonder if anyone has made a super long flex. I'll ask @RyanWanger...
Mof
Quoted from LTG:I once uncrated one of these for my business when new. And you did a whole lot better than when it was made.
LTG : )
Thank you Lloyd and all others. I appreciate the positive feedback.
London
Stunning work as usual. Glad you found a playfield in the end, I dont feel so guilty now. I will be stealing a good few of your build choices once I get round to doing mine as what you have done really ties the playfield look together.
The younger brother is done.
Not a game I can see taking outside for detailed pics because it is for a non pinball person and has a CPR second playfield set with some slight registration issues but that was still a huge upgrade.
This game has been here for 6 years waiting on the owner to be ready for it as it is going into some old renovated house and that renovation took a lot longer than expected.
Used the clear body on that one too with a red LED.
And just like that, Chris Hutchins created a trend that would sweep through the pinball community like wildfire. Clear pop bodies with colored LEDs. It was everywhere before anyone even realized any time had passed at all.
</the history books>
High_End_Pins amazing work as always.
I love the small solder tabs you put on the lights to help solder the ground wires. Where can you purchase those? I’m doing a PF swap and would love to use them.
Thanks!
Quoted from Pmaino:high_end_pins amazing work as always.
I love the small solder tabs you put on the lights to help solder the ground wires. Where can you purchase those? I’m doing a PF swap and would love to use them.
Thanks!
You can get them from Mouser I think this is the correct link
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/keystone-electronics/7312/?qs=xAjc%252bIZFyb73p5xd%252bbYg5w%3d%3d&countrycode=US¤cycode=USD
Viewing Amazing threads like this Confirms our 25th anniversary TZ restoration is an Good hands with HEP!!! SO excited to finally be on this journey and can't wait to see his magic first hand!!!!!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-hep-awesome-anniversary-tz-dream-comes-true
Quoted from High_End_Pins:You can get them from Mouser I think this is the correct link
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/keystone-electronics/7312/?qs=xAjc%252bIZFyb73p5xd%252bbYg5w%3d%3d&countrycode=US¤cycode=USD
Thanks!
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Delivered and set it up today at the owners house.
Quoted from epthegeek:And just like that, Chris Hutchins created a trend that would sweep through the pinball community like wildfire. Clear pop bodies with colored LEDs. It was everywhere before anyone even realized any time had passed at all.
</the history books>
I am trying these yellow ones out on TAF build.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:trying these out...
How to have this much fun while restoring a game:
1. Stock up on lots of colorful supplies (and re-order the moment you use up a color)
2. Try things out!
3. If you don't like it, try something else! (you can even do A/B testing, and leave in 2 colors at once, and see which one looks best by blocking the 'other side' with your extended hand) to help you decide...
--
Well done man, this green/yellow/black pop combo -- allows the brain to actually calmly look at the green PF and notice what yellow/black/grey art is there -- there's PLENTY of blue and red on that PF already, that it doesn't need more...
Once again, this is: Better than factory.
-mof
I'm not convinced. Obviously all this is a matter of taste but I see no point in making the insides of a bumper skirt visible. IMHO there's nothing fancy about wires and led modules (at least not on the upper side of the playfield).
I remember having seen a HEP MM restore long time ago where he had put black heat-shrink tubing on the wires along the ramps, which made them blend away and hardly noticeable anymore. I definitely prefer that approach. But again: it's all a matter of taste. Fun is all that matters.
Sana'a
Quoted from g94:I'm not convinced. Obviously all this is a matter of taste but I see no point in making the insides of a bumper skirt visible. IMHO there's nothing fancy about wires and led modules (at least not on the upper side of the playfield).
Old pop bodies were translucent.
But nowadays all the replacements are opaque, and don't illuminate the playfield.
If you don't like seeing the guts, but you want the playfield lit up, you can spray the interior of the clear ones with window privacy "frost" spray.
Quoted from vid1900:Old pop bodies were translucent.
That is possible. Compared to current bodies. But these are truly transparent. Your solution makes sense to hide the guts whilst adding light.
Quoted from g94:That is possible. Compared to current bodies. But these are truly transparent. Your solution makes sense to hide the guts whilst adding light.
Actually you don’t really see the guts unless you get eye level with the playfield.
The benefit I am finding with these is that they are allowing better lighting in the jet bumper areas because the light is coming out fully all the way around not just through the cap.
On some games that is more needed than others but still experimenting and perfecting it on my end. I never build the same game twice.
Quoted from vid1900:Old pop bodies were translucent.
But nowadays all the replacements are opaque, and don't illuminate the playfield.
If you don't like seeing the guts, but you want the playfield lit up, you can spray the interior of the clear ones with window privacy "frost" spray.
A slight confusion of terms. These new colored pop bodies are transparent, allowing you to see the insides. Translucent would only be semi-transparent. The original white pop bodies, I don't even think I would call them translucent - that implies you could somewhat see what was inside, when really all you can see is light.
Not really saying this to nitpick, other than to say I'm not a big fan of these clear colored pop bodies on an older pin. Maybe I need time for them to grow on me, but I prefer the old white original style. I do understand "they don't make 'em like that anymore" which is too bad.
Richard
Quoted from someotherguy:A slight confusion of terms. These new colored pop bodies are transparent, allowing you to see the insides. Translucent would only be semi-transparent. The original white pop bodies, I don't even think I would call them translucent - that implies you could somewhat see what was inside, when really all you can see is light.
Richard
The old White pop bodies were always translucent - light would shine through them, and illuminate the playfield (this is a Bally, but you can see what I mean).
pop_bumper_03-8325-5_mop-png (resized).png
The new White pop bodies are opaque - no light shines through them at all, thus they are crap.
598a73edcbc9c05d30336178035b92485cb91ae2 (resized).jpg
I was getting the transparent bodies from Pinballcenter eu for a while, and then Pinball Mods in TX started carrying them locally.
Pickering, ON
I'm not sure how I completely missed this thread but that restore was awesome! I did my FP playfield swap a few years ago. Too bad it wasn't after seeing the work that Chris did. I learned quite a bit just by reading through this thread. Great tips for the next playfield swap I have to do.
Now I'm debating adding the in-lane lighting as I really like that effect. Just don't feel like pulling things apart and drilling the playfield while it's in the cabinet. I did put in some post flashers that trigger off the slings and the pop bumpers to add a bit more to the lighting. I added clear saucers and bulbs and tied them to the green arrows rather than to the GI. I'm not a fan of the original pop bumper caps so I went with coloured, clear ones with LED rings underneath. To each his own though.
Thanks for all the pictures and detail Chris. Great learning experience. And I'm working on a BK as my second machine so that made me smile as well!
Honestly on the transparent bodies debate it is not as big a deal as I see some making.
The transparent caps show the “guts” much more than the body because from overhead that is what you see.
The body itself isn’t noticeable to the player but what I am seeing as a gain is the ability of that light to glow out of the body with the transparent body not just the cap. I think especially on games where the jets light individually as a reward it is more rewarding.
Certainly have no stake in it but these are honestly pretty cool and like everything else in this world beside death and taxes totally optional.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Honestly on the transparent bodies debate it is not as big a deal as I see some making.
I agree. It's no different than some guys saying they hate LEDs compared to incandescent. You can't make everyone happy. And it's funny how lots of "newer" games have transparent bodies. If you are complaining about what you can see inside a pop then have a look around the playfield and check out all the other obvious stuff you can see like sling arms, point switches, stand-up brackets, etc...
Quoted from dzorbas:I agree. It's no different than some guys saying they hate LEDs compared to incandescent. You can't make everyone happy. And it's funny how lots of "newer" games have transparent bodies. If you are complaining about what you can see inside a pop then have a look around the playfield and check out all the other obvious stuff you can see like sling arms, point switches, stand-up brackets, etc...
Nobody's making anybody pick sides. Observations are not arguments by default.
Richard
Quoted from vid1900:The old White pop bodies were always translucent - light would shine through them, and illuminate the playfield (this is a Bally, but you can see what I mean).
The new White pop bodies are opaque - no light shines through them at all, thus they are crap.
I was getting the transparent bodies from Pinballcenter eu for a while, and then Pinball Mods in TX started carrying them locally.
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just the terminology. Translucent really isn't the best term for those old white pop bodies; they're more in the middle between translucent and opaque. Light gets through them but you really can't see what's inside other than a light source.
Anyway wasn't trying to sidetrack the discussion with a nitpick over terms. Again, I'm in agreement. The new white pop bodies are not good replacements for the old style. 
Richard
Quoted from someotherguy:Nobody's making anybody pick sides. Observations are not arguments by default.
No argument here. Just saying everyone has different opinions on what they like and don't like. I'm pretty easy going to be honest with you and I can see both sides of the discussion. I'm just saying there are lots of other exposed parts on pinball machines and to get hung up on what is visible inside a pop bumper seems a bit trivial compared to everything else.
But I'm good with it either way.
Now back to the original discussion! Again, fantastic work Chris!
Quoted from High_End_Pins:For the final coil assembly I am going to change it out entirely in favor of this.
They are identical with the exception of the bracket on the newer style being just a little lower profile.
That isn’t an issue though since it goes under the apron. Coil will be just a touch stronger since it is a 23-800 replacing a 23-850 doubtful it will have any negative consequences.
Hey Chris, did this change the behaviour of the outlane kickback? I still have the original coil in there and when the ball gets sent back into the playfield the result is inconsistent. Sometimes it comes out strong, sometimes weak, most times it's somewhere in between. When it's weak, it tends to loop over and go straight down the right outlane. I can't imagine that this was the intended design of the game.
Quoted from dzorbas:Hey Chris, did this change the behaviour of the outlane kickback? I still have the original coil in there and when the ball gets sent back into the playfield the result is inconsistent. Sometimes it comes out strong, sometimes weak, most times it's somewhere in between. When it's weak, it tends to loop over and go straight down the right outlane. I can't imagine that this was the intended design of the game.
This actually proved to be a good upgrade.
I did find it necessary to switch to a slightly more pointed tip plunger to reliably clear the hole cut out in the apron.
I will post a picture here in a bit of what version plunger I ended up going with.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:This actually proved to be a good upgrade.
I did find it necessary to switch to a slightly more pointed tip plunger to reliably clear the hole cut out in the apron.
I will post a picture here in a bit of what version plunger I ended up going with.
Me too - would love to solve this 100% -- send it to rollover lanes EVERY time would be ideal. Glad to know it's not specifically a coil strength issue.
-mof
I would be really interested to see how these transparent bodies looks with one of the Comet Pop Bumper lights, since it has both up AND down LEDs.
http://www.cometpinball.com/Pinball-Pop-Bumper-LED-Light-p/11smdbmpring.htm
Quoted from vid1900:Old pop bodies were translucent.
But nowadays all the replacements are opaque, and don't illuminate the playfield.
If you don't like seeing the guts, but you want the playfield lit up, you can spray the interior of the clear ones with window privacy "frost" spray.
This.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Honestly on the transparent bodies debate it is not as big a deal as I see some making.
The transparent caps show the “guts” much more than the body because from overhead that is what you see.
The body itself isn’t noticeable to the player but what I am seeing as a gain is the ability of that light to glow out of the body with the transparent body not just the cap. I think especially on games where the jets light individually as a reward it is more rewarding.
Certainly have no stake in it but these are honestly pretty cool and like everything else in this world beside death and taxes totally optional.
The pop caps with the starburst etched in them hide the guts pretty well, although I am not sure if you can get all colors:
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:The pop caps with the starburst etched in them hide the guts pretty well, although I am not sure if you can get all colors:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-9007-16
Yes those are cool sometimes too only real caution there is they are slightly taller I think and won’t fit under some ramps and other parts on some games.
Same problem with the “universal” or Data East body commonly sold as a Williams replacement.
You have to shave those down.
Quoted from RobertWinter:I would be really interested to see how these transparent bodies looks with one of the Comet Pop Bumper lights, since it has both up AND down LEDs.
http://www.cometpinball.com/Pinball-Pop-Bumper-LED-Light-p/11smdbmpring.htm
I have just purchased these including a set of clear pop bodies, new Blue pop caps and blue skirts for my Fish Tales, another pinsider has done the same. Sure brightens up the top area of the PF, I am excited to get to this on mine during refurb
Quoted from RobertWinter:I would be really interested to see how these transparent bodies looks with one of the Comet Pop Bumper lights, since it has both up AND down LEDs.
I'm using these on my FP with the white bodies and clear coloured caps. I like the way it looks. Clear bodies would have been even nicer.
High_End_Pins I have a question on your stencil method on that Black Knight above. When you do your automotive paint, how long does it take before you feel comfortable removing stencils, and how long before you feel it's safe to apply new ones? I'm always worried about making tape leaving residue or pulling up paint as well. Just curious your thoughts.
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