(Topic ID: 2331)

Help!....Major problem... Sega Frankenstein.

By manowar43

13 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 51 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 years ago by Brokedad
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

rect.JPG
PIC_0500.JPG
PIC_0504.JPG
PIC_0500.JPG
frankcircuit.PNG

There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 13 years ago

Rookie here....
I just got this machine 2 weeks ago (my first).

It played fine for the 2 weeks except for some DOT Matrix resetting issues.

A few nights ago, I installed a new harness for the DOT matrix that I found Sega put out to fix the occassional "resetting" problem (that I was having) with their machines.I also replaced all my gamefield lights with LEDs , and after spending all night doing this and cleaning while things were off, I fired it up and played a game (good one that lasted 15 min. or more and everything was fine. I was on cloud 9 because these lights made this thing sparkle!! Couldn't wait to get home the next day to play more.

The following day while I was at work, my son played a game or 2 without any issues, and then later on turned it back on and there was nothing but accent lights on the playfield and backbox lit up? There is no sound,DOT matrix screen, and nothing will work. He showed me when I got home from work, and I immediately noticed a blown fuse (F1). Thought that was the problem, but I replaced it, and still nothing worked, and it will blow the fuse in about 20 seconds.

I also noticed, that it looks to me (in the manual) that the fuse in this slot (F1)is supposed to be a 7 amp slow blow. but the one the machine had in it here is a 15 amp slow blow. The F2 slot beside it was/is empty, and (worked fine this way), but the manual says there should be anothe 7 amp slow blow here as well.

The first thing I assumed was that I caused a short somewhere while changing the bulbs OR it was the new harness, But what doesn't mesh with that is that I played a long game when I finished and it worked fine? And my son played a while the next day. I also thought maybe I left a screw lay on the playfield and it ended up somewhere causing a short.I switched it back to the old DOT matrix harness with no results, and cannot find any obvious wiring short (plus as I said it played flawlessly for 15 min. after my changes, and a game or 2 the next day).
When I first looked it over I noticed when you turned it on (2) of the kickback plungers would be engaged. this has stopped now and when you turn it on there is no display, actions or sound just the backbox lights and the playfield accent lights (not any of the gameplay lights).

Any Thought would be appreciated!

#2 13 years ago

Check the 3J1 connector on your power supply board. Data East / Sega has known issues with these. Pull the connector and look for discoloration, If it's brown or black ( probably going to be the top right wire on the connector) you'll need to replace the wiring connector and pins on the PS board.

#3 13 years ago

Here's a good read on the issues....I'd recommend bookmarking this link,valuable info here..
http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index1.htm

You'll want to go to section 2c. Before Turning the Game On: Burnt Connectors (Power & G.I.)

If it's any consolation, my TFTC decided to have this issue just last night..... First issue I've had with it in 10-12 years....

#4 13 years ago

Do you have a meter available? Hopefully damage is limited to the power supply. First thing I'd check is the rectifier at DB1. Sounds like it might be bad and it easily could have been damaged from being over fused.

Start reading pinrepair.com. You are going to need to start testing with a meter to narrow down what the problem is. And you are probably going to have to remove the power supply and look for anything that appears burned and damaged.

#5 13 years ago

Have you replaced the electrolytic filter capacitors on the power supply ? It's the first thing I do if they are over ten years old. The older machines have one HUGE capacitor mounted alone to filter the +5V.

You might also try removing and reconnecting all your cables. As mentioned above you might find a burnt one. This will let you know it's a cable/connector problem.

(I'm working on a old Williams System 3-7 right now for someone. It needs all new wiring connectors. It will work sometimes. I have all new Molex connectors and pins on order.)

#6 13 years ago

BD... I've got the connector jacks and receptacles. What PN# did you order for your male & Female .093 pins?

#7 13 years ago

I really want thank all of you guys for the info.

I will check the items stated, and hopefully fuing something obvious. The only thing I've seen so for that abears "burnt" at all is the path to the F1 fuse holders on the PS board. It has a brown look to it. I have to head out to get the (2) 7 amp slow blow fuses for F1 & F2. One question..... If it needs a 7 in both of these, why was it working fine with the 15 in only F1 ? Also when I first got the machine I placed another 15 amp (before I got my manual and saw it should be a 7) in the F2, but it blow right away?

Thanks again!

#8 13 years ago

Have you pulled the power supply to be sure that someone hasn't jumpered F2 on the back or done something fishy to make the PS work without F2? You never know, people do crazy things to get by when they don't have the right parts available.

#9 13 years ago

Just pulled the power board and no signs the F1 and F2 were jumped.

Sorta at a stand still since I couldn't find any & amp slow blow fuses anywhere today.

#10 13 years ago

7 amp that is.

#11 13 years ago

I sold my Sega machine and the manual went with it so I don't have the PS schematics in front of me. But Data East power supplies are basically the same and I do have those schematics. That being said, I don't know why you didn't notice anything strange with F2 missing.

I've bought 7A slow blow fuses from Radio Shack. greatplainselectronics.com is a great place for parts and Ed's shipping prices are always low. You can probably buy several different fuse sizes and have them shipped for less than what you'd pay at Radio Shack.

Do you have your general location in your profile? I didn't see it. Maybe if someone is close they could help.

#12 13 years ago

Stangbat------ I like your profile pic!!!!! Mine's got Elwood on the left and Jake on the right too............

#13 13 years ago

HI I have a frankenstein too. I was looking at the manual on the IPDB, and check out part 2 of the schematics page 81L or 24/54. It looks as if the only real spot there could possibly be a jumper to connect the circuit is in this area.

Something seems to have been linked in the bridge rectifier from both fuses to one. Maybe one side of the bridge was bad so instead of replacing it they jumpered it/ solidered the traces, And now the whole thing failed, just a thought.

best of luck getting it going again, it's a great machine.

#14 13 years ago

What erak posted is what the PS schematics look like in my DE games. I figured it was the same for Sega and MSF. This is why I suggested he look for jumpers and to check the rectifier at DB1. With the information we have available, I still think it points to someone monkeying around to try and use one fuse because they didn't have a 7A available. This is a case where being able to look at it would really help, we could be barking up the wrong tree.

#15 13 years ago

While crawling through this thing with a fine tooth comb, the only thing I (just) found that appears "burnt" is the (GI Relay?.. directly above the F1 and F2 fuse holders.

On the top side ofit has a white smokey discoloration on the inside of the plastic. Could this be the culprit? Also, does this thing plug onto the power board, or is it soldered?

#16 13 years ago

I keep an assortment of micro breakers with clips for troubleshooting. It's alot easier just resetting a button than going through fuse after fuse.

As for those parts numbers I can ask at work MCO. I just gave samples of the old ones I needed to our parts dept. who sent them to Newark to match up and order for me.

#17 13 years ago

I don't think that relay would cause the problems you are seeing. All it does is flash the GI lighting. It might be bad though. It gets its power from CN3 on the power supply and it is controlled by CN12 on the CPU.

Let's look at something else. Do any of the LEDs on your CPU light up when you power up?

#18 13 years ago

Yes the "general" lighting bulbs ( side, sligshots, etc.).

I just installed the new 7amp slo blo fuses in F1 and F2. Turned it on and all gamefield lights lit, and there was a loud buzzing and F1 lit up and blew in a few seconds and the gameplay (not the "general" lighting lights) lights went out. Surprisingly to me the F2 fuse did not blow, but the machine buzzes loudly.

I didn't get to see if the matrix lit up though because I had it lying down I don't believe it did, and there was no start up phrase either.

#19 13 years ago

Loud Buzzing is coming from the large speaker in the floor of the cabinet only.

#20 13 years ago

Scratch that... It's coming from all speakers. Volume control will not affect it either.

#21 13 years ago

I really think you need to get a meter and check the rectifier at DB1 on the power supply.
http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/index.htm#howdmm

Have you checked the other fuses in the game to make sure they are not over fused? I think every game I've picked up except one has had incorrect fuses, almost always over fused.

I think you need to get this power supply issue taken care of first, but I was asking about the three LEDs on the CPU board, do any of them light up?

#22 13 years ago

Thanks again Stang,

The 3 LEDs do light up, but then go out when the fuse blows. Still not clear on how to check the rectifier. I have a DMM but am new to this. The real confusing thing is why did it run fine with the 15 amp in the F1, and nothing in the F2?

When I purchased it, the guy said it had just blown a fuse (F1) when he was playing it before I arrived. He gave me the box of extra (15a slo blo) fuses to have. I mentioned the missing fuse at F2, and he said it never had one there as long as he has owned the machine. I said maybe it was an unused slot and you could keep a back up fuse there, but he sain no he had put one there and it blows it right away.
I placed one of the 15a fuses there when I got home and set the machin up, but it did the loud "buzzing" so I immediately removed it.
The machine ran great for over 2 weeks (playing every day), with the single 15 amp slo blo in F1.

All I did the day before it crashed, was the DOT matrix harness replacement, and the gameboard light switch to LEDs. I played with no issues when I completed these changes?

Really getting bummed out now, not getting to play it!

#23 13 years ago

Like stangbat is saying it probably a bad bridge rectifier in the power supply. There are places that will go over boards for you and fix them if you are not comfortable doing it. The other choice is taking the chance on buying a replacement board.

I don't know that machine also but sometimes they are built for different countries etc. It could be in the 120 volt version it uses and is configured for one 15A fuse.... the 240 volt foreign version two 7A fuses.

#24 13 years ago

There is a Data East decal in the bottom of the cabinet above the flipper board that says
Volts/amps: 230 volts 50hz 5 amp
Country: Portugal

Also If left on while BUZZING with just the F2 fuse in, the F2 will blow (or at least get red) after about 1 min.

#25 13 years ago

Here is a shot of the PSB

PIC_0500.JPGPIC_0500.JPG

#26 13 years ago

If any other photos will help crack this case, I can get them.

Thanks guys!

Greg

#27 13 years ago

Also... if I get to this point and cant find the 520-5047-03 PSB I need. I've read posts that say this one should work too.

http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=262

Any thoughts?

#28 13 years ago

I would not buy a new power supply. Power supplies are pretty simple and can almost always be fixed. And it usually doesn't cost much more than a few dollars to fix them. Plus, we don't really know what is wrong at this point and you may be spending money for an unnecessary part.

Also, the Rottendog PS you linked to is for small/medium DMD games. Frankenstein is a large DMD game and doesn't have a high voltage section on the PS. The Rottendog PS might work, but I don't think it will be plug and play. If you get to the point that you do need a new PS, I'd email or call Rottendog and ask:
http://www.rottendog.us/

It sounds like you have a reimported game. I'm guessing it was converted back to 120v correctly otherwise it wouldn't have worked up to this point. Pinrepair also details how to convert a game back to 120v. It wouldn't hurt to check this. It is 4b on this page:
http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index3.htm#convert

I don't know if I'm going to be much more help until you can check the rectifier on the PS. I wouldn't mind looking at a larger picture of the PS and maybe a picture of the back. If you PM me, I'll give you an email address where you can send pics.

#29 13 years ago

Woot ... I guessed right for once .. it was converted back to 120V .. thus the fuse changes. I still bet stangbat has it right and you have a bad rectifier etc now on that PS board.

#30 13 years ago

So I am going to have to stick with the lone 15 amp in the F1?
(when I get it working that is)

The PSB shows no signs of any alteration though?

Also, I still have not figured out how to test the rectifier at DB1 with the DMM while it is on the board. (even after checking the articles on pinrepair.com )

#31 13 years ago

There will be two sides most likely with ~ ~ ... these are the ac input. The other two legs will be labeled + and - (the DC out) ... put your DMM in diode check mode between legs moving around. If you get a solid continuous beep etc or a reading near zero between any it's bad.

For a replacement try:

www.newark.com
www.jameco.com
www.mouser.com

You will need to know how to unsolder/resolder that part and have those tools.

P.S. the rectifier(s) is/are the big square IC chip(s)

#32 13 years ago

thanks Broke!

Bottom center of the photo I posted above correct?

#33 13 years ago

yup .. that's it .. you should be able to find a part number on it ... the big square thing with the hole in the middle

The disc capacitor above it looks really nasty ... it might be that and not the bridge rectifier. Try lifting one leg of it and powering up. It will work without it but don't run it that way forever. After downloading and zooming in on things I am betting it's the problem and not the big rectifier itself.

#34 13 years ago

Brokedad,

(In my photo above, the top right of the rectifier is the positive post, and the bottom left is the negative)

* With the red lead on my tester on the negative post of the rectifier, and the black lead on the positive (diagonal from it) post I get a reading of 376.

* With the red on the negative post and the black on the post above it the reading is 376

* With the red on the negative post and the black on the post to the right of it the reading is 000

When I do the same pattern on the rectifier on the PPB I get numbers in all thre above patterns.

#35 13 years ago

See that brown disc thing right above it ? ... lift/cut one side ... it looks like it's damaged
Then power up and see if the fuse(s) still blow.

#36 13 years ago

There are (2) disc capacitors above it (tough to see in the photo) One is mustard colored, and the other is brown, plus they had some dark dust on them in the photo. They look as if they are fine.
Here is a better shot:

PIC_0504.JPGPIC_0504.JPG

#37 13 years ago

Broke,

Also... I can't really test anything again now until I get new 15a Slo Blos.

I should fuse it the way it was correct?

#38 13 years ago

(In my photo , the top right of the rectifier is the positive post, and the bottom left is the negative)

* With the red lead on my tester on the negative post of the rectifier, and the black lead on the positive (diagonal from it) post I get a reading of 376.

* With the red on the negative post and the black on the post above it the reading is 376

* With the red on the negative post and the black on the post to the right of it the reading is 000

When I do the same pattern on the rectifier on the PPB I get triple digit readings in all three above patterns.

PIC_0500.JPGPIC_0500.JPG

#39 13 years ago

Also if the answer is yes this means it is bad.... are the specs on this one (see link) sufficient to replace it?

http://www.newark.com/solid-state/mb3510/bridge-rectifier-1ph-35a-1kv-qc/dp/10P1485

#40 13 years ago

I think it sounds like the rectifier is bad if I'm reading your information correctly. And if it checks differently than the one on the PPB, I think that further proves it is bad.

Don't use 15A sb fuses in the PS. It should have 7 amp, no higher. Replace the rectifier, put fuses in both F1 and F2 and try the PS.

I usually order everything I can from greatplainselectronics.com, but it looks like they are out of the rectifier you need.

#41 13 years ago

I have a reimported Frankenstein it has fuses in F1 and F2 both 7 amp slow blow. To run properly it has to be linked to 2 fuses just like the schematics. For it to have been working fine with only 1 fuse something HAS to have been jumped together somewhere, or possibly something blew and fused togeher inside the rectifier itself, and rather than repair it,(as it was probably blowing a 7 amp fuse) it was overfused to work.

#42 13 years ago

I agree with erak. Something has to be wrong, broken, or someone hacked something for the PS to work with only one fuse.

#43 13 years ago

What voltage do I want for the replacement rectifier? Having trouble locating one exactly like this one ( MB 351)

rect.JPGrect.JPG

#44 13 years ago

You want 35 amp, at least 200v with lug leads. greatplainselectronics.com is a great place to order electrical parts for pinball machines but unfortunately they are our of this part right now.

#45 13 years ago

Sorry .. those do look fine in the up close pic.

#46 13 years ago

Thanks Brokedad,

I looked at those (that site) but they say 100 V ?

#47 13 years ago

I am looking elsewhere for in stock

Here you go and in stock and you can buy just one:

http://www.newark.com/solid-state/mb3510/bridge-rectifier-1ph-35a-1kv-qc/dp/10P1485

#48 13 years ago

Those say 1kv .... 1000 volts? Any issues with this?

#49 13 years ago

Having something with a higher rating is not a problem. I've been repairing electronics for 25 years on the bench.

We buy from Newark all the time at work and I use them myself. They are very reliable as a company. Shipping will probably cost you near as much as the part. You might want to look for some other "spares" etc you'd want for your machines.

#50 13 years ago

Thanks Broke !

Order placed!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
Pinball Machine
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
Eproms
$ 17.00
Cabinet - Decals
Nordic Pinball Supply
Decals
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
$ 50.00
Playfield - Protection
Duke Pinball
Protection
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
$ 285.99
Cabinet - Other
PinSound
Other
From: $ 64.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinSound
Sound/Speakers
$ 27.95
There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/helpmajor-problem-sega-frankenstein and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.