(Topic ID: 15466)

Help!!....LOTR wasn't an easy fix...

By dangermouse007

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by StevenP
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 11 years ago

Ok,ring magnet was not holding ball and so was directed to the f20 fuse which was a 3a sb and indeed was blown

Picked up some 4a sb and installed just minutes ago,.....a buzzing type noise immediately sounded when switched machine on followed by a burn or hot smell and 4a sb cooked!

Arggggh...any further help much appreciated

#2 11 years ago

If this happens as soon as the machine is turned on then you have a short. You'll need to track down the transistor and repair it. Check the coil chart in your manual for the magnet transistor. Its on page 100 in the yellow section. Ring magnet is coil 6 so it is driven by transistor q6. Now you need to grab your digital multimeter and test the transistor. In the continuity test mode, touch one end to the top of the transistor. Other end to ground. If it beeps then there's a short in the circuit. To make sure it's only in the board, you could remove connectors j10 and j8 and test. If shorted then the transistor needs to be replaced. If not sure how to do any of this then time to call a repairman.

#3 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

If this happens as soon as the machine is turned on then you have a short. You'll need to track down the transistor and repair it. Check the coil chart in your manual for the magnet transistor. Its on page 100 in the yellow section. Ring magnet is coil 6 so it is driven by transistor q6. Now you need to grab your digital multimeter and test the transistor. In the continuity test mode, touch one end to the top of the transistor. Other end to ground. If it beeps then there's a short in the circuit. To make sure it's only in the board, you could remove connectors j10 and j8 and test. If shorted then the transistor needs to be replaced. If not sure how to do any of this then time to call a repairman.

Thanks markmon! Yes as soon as machine turned on it buzzed for a couple seconds and pop fuse gone!
Really appreciate the help,im certainly not tech savvy but hearing all your guys who are is really getting me keen in learning more of the maintenance/troubleshoot side of pinball!

Will do the first part and borrow fathers multimeter 2morro and if is faulty seems i should probably get someone more experienced to replace for me.

Thanks again

#4 11 years ago

Depending on your situation, rottendog makes a decent replacement power board for your machine. You could buy it and pop it in. Then you could sell your broken board and reclaim some costs. That could be cheaper for you than a repairman. The board would be different if it's a lotr 2003 vs a lotr LE.

#5 11 years ago

Your Transistor is bad/shorted and will have to be replaced location on driver board Q6.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-ring-magnet-update

#6 11 years ago

Oh yea. I suppose it's possible for the short to be in the wiring or magnet. So before you buy a board do the tests to verify its really the transistor at q6.

#7 11 years ago

It's most certainly the Transistor...A lot of stress is put on that Transistor when holding the ball and
will give out.

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

markmon said:magnet
It's most certainly the Transistor...A lot of stress is put on that Transistor when holding the ball and
will give out.

I agree it probably is. But it could be outside the transistor. Remember that power is always given to the coils and the CPU shorts ground to enable them. If there's a short in the magnet, wiring, etc it will behave the same as if the transistor is shorted. For a guy that isn't that technical, he needs to test for these things before putting in a new board and risking that it blows right away again.

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from dangermouse007:

f20 fuse which was a 3a sb

F20 has to be a 4mp slo blo,A 3 amp will not hold up for long and will short out the Transistor.Keep in mind if your going to place a new Rottendog driver board F20 will be marked to place a 3 amp fuse on the board.Make sure you put in a 4 amp slo blow instead of a 3 amp,If you place a 3 amp you will short that Transistor again,I already been through all of this with both Stern and Rottendog boards.

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

pinmike said:

markmon said:magnet
It's most certainly the Transistor...A lot of stress is put on that Transistor when holding the ball and
will give out.
I agree it probably is. But it could be outside the transistor. Remember that power is always given to the coils and the CPU shorts ground to enable them. If there's a short in the magnet, wiring, etc it will behave the same as if the transistor is shorted. For a guy that isn't that technical, he needs to test for these things before putting in a new board and risking that it blows right away again

What is all this new board talk? It's one three legged transistor... find someone to replace this first, if it locks again, then look elsewhere, but as others have mentioned, there is a 95% chance this is the issue.

Do magnet coils act the same for common resistance checks on coils?

#11 11 years ago

It sounds like we are past this point. I had the same problem on my TAF and it was a blown transistor. A friend with a slew of know how was very, very nice and came and fixed it - took about 20 minutes.

It's way beyond my skill level and I would have had to order a new board.

I offered to pay my friend for doing the repair. He just wanted the cost of parts... I think it was $2. Wow.

#12 11 years ago

Its a common problem. Pinballife sells a heavier duty transistor for that application because its so common. Its their part number 22NE10L for $2.95.
If you own a LOTR you might want to throw one in on whatever your next order is just to keep it around. I bought two and used one, then had to give my spare to a friend who needed one. I put a 5 amp fuse in it after that too and have had no problems since.

#13 11 years ago

I agree for those of us that can handle the task, it's not that difficult to replace a transistor. For those that can't, it's infinitely difficult. If you have to hire a professional repairman for this then it may be cheaper to instead buy a board, swap the board, and sell the old board. A board with only one blown transistor can still sell for a decent price. so suggesting a new board is not that ridiculous. Just laying out all the options.

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I agree for those of us that can handle the task, it's not that difficult to replace a transistor. For those that can't, it's infinitely difficult. If you have to hire a professional repairman for this then it may be cheaper to instead buy a board, swap the board, and sell the old board. A board with only one blown transistor can still sell for a decent price. so suggesting a new board is not that ridiculous. Just laying out all the options.

Actually, far better (and cheaper, and faster) to find a friend with rudimentary soldering skills to replace the transistor. Or (*gasp*) spend a bit of time and learn how to solder and identify parts yourself. These are basic skills that you'd be well-advised to have if you're going to own and maintain things like pinball machines. It is not rocket science. Lots of info/help is available (like in this thread), along with photos or other detailed info on the net. Just do it step-by-step. Do you put in a new car engine when it fails to start? Pretty much the same thing....

FWIW, BOTH of my flipper drive transistors blew on my LOTR LE within the first 8-9 months of owning it. I replaced them with the beefier transistors; not a hint of a problem since. Cost me about $5 in parts, only had to wait a few days the first time. (I ordered a couple extra transistors just in case). Buying a new board, installing, hoping to sell the other (non-working) one, with payment and shipping hassles, swallowing the hefty loss. Does that sound like the best way to go? Not to me or any other pin owner I know!

#15 11 years ago

Cant thank all you guys enough for all the help,thankyou!

Quoted from pinmike:

It's most certainly the Transistor...A lot of stress is put on that Transistor when holding the ball and
will give out.

Right this gonna be my first check and if faulty will see if i can find someone to help me out with replacement (and tutorial for me)

Love to have the confidence to do myself and hope to do so in the future but might start with some of the more easier things first.

Not that i know exactly what im looking for but the general condition of the backbox contents,boards etc look very nice so if board can be fixed with the one bad transistor i think a new one is not needed.

I have already checked the pinside 'must have tool list' and need to invest there i think

Thanks again,there really is no better pinball site or community that is pinside...PINSIDE FOR LIFE!!!!

#16 11 years ago

You can check it yourself with a DMM. This is very easy.

If you're going to have pinball machines, you need to learn repairs anyway. Get a used board and practice removing and re-soldering. You need a temp controlled soldering station for board work. You likely find someone to do this for you, but for future issues, it's good to start the learning process now.

4 weeks later
#17 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

If this happens as soon as the machine is turned on then you have a short. You'll need to track down the transistor and repair it. Check the coil chart in your manual for the magnet transistor. Its on page 100 in the yellow section. Ring magnet is coil 6 so it is driven by transistor q6. Now you need to grab your digital multimeter and test the transistor. In the continuity test mode, touch one end to the top of the transistor. Other end to ground. If it beeps then there's a short in the circuit. To make sure it's only in the board, you could remove connectors j10 and j8 and test. If shorted then the transistor needs to be replaced. If not sure how to do any of this then time to call a repairman.

I have done the continuity test on q6 transistor and yes it beeps,even with connectors j10 and j8 removed.

Does this mean just a faulty transistor needs replacing or is here something more i need do or find causing transistor to fail?

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from dangermouse007:

markmon said:If this happens as soon as the machine is turned on then you have a short. You'll need to track down the transistor and repair it. Check the coil chart in your manual for the magnet transistor. Its on page 100 in the yellow section. Ring magnet is coil 6 so it is driven by transistor q6. Now you need to grab your digital multimeter and test the transistor. In the continuity test mode, touch one end to the top of the transistor. Other end to ground. If it beeps then there's a short in the circuit. To make sure it's only in the board, you could remove connectors j10 and j8 and test. If shorted then the transistor needs to be replaced. If not sure how to do any of this then time to call a repairman.
I have done the continuity test on q6 transistor and yes it beeps,even with connectors j10 and j8 removed.
Does this mean just a faulty transistor needs replacing or is here something more i need do or find causing transistor to fail?

It just depends, but usually just replacing the transistor is enough. They're easy to replace and cheap. Buy a few, replace it, and see where you're at.

#19 11 years ago

For me, I would take the board out, buy the transistor and then take it to a friend to fix the board and show me how to do it....might save some time and frustration....but eventually learning how to do this stuff is good if you are going to own multiple machines...

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

For me, I would take the board out, buy the transistor and then take it to a friend to fix the board and show me how to do it....might save some time and frustration....but eventually learning how to do this stuff is good if you are going to own multiple machines...

Solid advice! It all gets easier (and fun?) over time.

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