(Topic ID: 317352)

Help! Xenon won't boot

By AitchB

1 year ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by AitchB
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Hello, this is my first post on Pinside but I've read hundreds.

So, I just got a Xenon. The game was working fine when I picked it up but after getting it home now it does not start up. Only the GI lights come on. The LED on the MPU does not flash. I've been reading thru the forum trying to figure out what to do. I have disconnected everything from the MPU except the J4 with the same result. I understood the next step is to test the power supply. That is an AS-2518-54 board. I tested by putting the black lead on GND and using the the red lead to touch TP1 - TP5. I got the following readings:
TP1 7.8V
TP2 O.L
TP3 0.2V
TP4 O.L
TP5 O.L

Then I read somewhere to unplug the output connectors from the board and to switch to AC voltage for TP4. After doing that, I get the following results:
TP1 7.9V
TP2 184V
TP3 13.3V
TP4 7.3V
TP5 45.6V

I also have Bally KISS with the same MPU board. I took the board out of Xenon and hooked up the J4 from KISS. I got 7 flashes. I take that as a good sign for the MPU.

I am assuming I have an issue with the Xenon power module. It looks like I can get a replacement board online to replace the AS-2518-54.

Is there something else I can test regarding the power module to verify that it's the board itself that is the problem and not something else?

#2 1 year ago

Check out the schematics PDF page 44
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2821/Bally_1980_Xenon_Manual_And_Schematics.pdf

Your AC voltages come from rectifier board connector J6, then go through the bridge rectifiers and rectifier diodes to create the DC voltages. You should be getting DC voltage on all the test points except TP4. Only plug in J6 on the rectifier board, then check your test points for the DC voltage (except for TP4 which is measured in AC voltage). The approximate voltages you should get for each test point are labeled on that page (some leeway is fine, like getting 7.9v instead of 6.5 for TP1 is okay).

You can get a replacement -54 board, there are multiple manufacturers
ebay.com link: itm

#3 1 year ago

Thanks. I have measured the voltages again with only the J6 connected. Previously the J5 was also connected.
Now I get:
TP1 8 VDC
TP2 2.9 - 4.2 VDC (way off from 230 VDC listed in the schematic)
TP3 13.3 VDC
TP4 7.3 VAC
TP5 45.6 VDC

Are the results from TP2 indicating a fault with the board?

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

Thanks. I have measured the voltages again with only the J6 connected. Previously the J5 was also connected.
Now I get:
TP1 8 VDC
TP2 2.9 - 4.2 VDC (way off from 230 VDC listed in the schematic)
TP3 13.3 VDC
TP4 7.3 VAC
TP5 45.6 VDC
Are the results from TP2 indicating a fault with the board?

Yes, CR1-CR4 are suspect, Id replace them all, 1n4004 or 1n4007. Check the fuse then try again. Could also be that R3 100k resistor

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

The game was working fine when I picked it up but after getting it home now it does not start up.

I'm suspecting you may have hooked something up wrong when you got it home. Or there is a bad connection somewhere.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Yes, CR1-CR4 are suspect, Id replace them all, 1n4004 or 1n4007. Check the fuse then try again. Could also be that R3 100k resistor

Wow replacing those diodes would be a lot cheaper than replacing the board. The fuse(F2) seems ok - I took it out and there is continuity across it. R3 is measuring 199 ohms. But looking at the schematic closer, isn't it the J5 connector for TP2?

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

Wow replacing those diodes would be a lot cheaper than replacing the board. The fuse(F2) seems ok - I took it out and there is continuity across it. R3 is measuring 199 ohms. But looking at the schematic closer, isn't it the J5 connector for TP2?

Try plugging in J5 and J6, then measuring TP2. I see what you mean now, but it seems like if J5 isn't plugged in, you shouldn't be getting anything at TP4 or TP5. Im not as familiar with these later rectifier boards.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Try plugging in J5 and J6, then measuring TP2. I see what you mean now, but it seems like if J5 isn't plugged in, you shouldn't be getting anything at TP4 or TP5. Im not as familiar with these later rectifier boards.

With both J5 and J6 plugged in the voltage at TP2 is 184 VDC. The schematic says 230 VDC then (UNREG 190). Is the resistor dropping the voltage appropriately or should TP2 really be 230 VDC?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

With both J5 and J6 plugged in the voltage at TP2 is 184 VDC. The schematic says 230 VDC then (UNREG 190). Is the resistor dropping the voltage appropriately or should TP2 really be 230 VDC?

Something weird about these Ballys, with the display voltage not under load, the voltage goes down. When you plug in the output connectors you should see it go up to around 230v I think. Well you've determined your power output is good. Was this game sold as fully working and rebuilt? If not I would check your MPU and driver board for broken solder joints at the headers. It's likely you're not getting 5v at your MPU. I would start by plugging everything in and measuring MPU TP1 and TP5
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Attract_Mode_Test_Points

If you are missing 5v, then work backwards to the driver board. The driver board takes in 12v, regulates it to 5v, then sends it to the MPU

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Something weird about these Ballys, with the display voltage not under load, the voltage goes down. When you plug in the output connectors you should see it go up to around 230v I think. Well you've determined your power output is good. Was this game sold as fully working and rebuilt? If not I would check your MPU and driver board for broken solder joints at the headers. It's likely you're not getting 5v at your MPU. I would start by plugging everything in and measuring MPU TP1 and TP5
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Attract_Mode_Test_Points
If you are missing 5v, then work backwards to the driver board. The driver board takes in 12v, regulates it to 5v, then sends it to the MPU

The game was fully working. I played a few games on it before buying. Not sure about a driver board. Is that the power module or MPU module? Block diagram in the manual shows the MPU's only input is from the power module.

On the power module after plugging everything in, TP2 is 194v. On the MPU board(with all the connectors plugged in) I am definitely not getting 5v. TP1, TP2, and TP5 all read 0.25v. TP3 reads 0v.

With Xenon's board hooked up to the J4 from my KISS the LED does flash 7 times. Hooked up to the Xenon - no flashes. This leading me to believe there is a problem with the J4 connector. I'm kicking myself because onsite I had unplugged it from the board when I did not need to.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

The game was fully working. I played a few games on it before buying. Not sure about a driver board. Is that the power module or MPU module? Block diagram in the manual shows the MPU's only input is from the power module.
On the power module after plugging everything in, TP2 is 194v. On the MPU board(with all the connectors plugged in) I am definitely not getting 5v. TP1, TP2, and TP5 all read 0.25v. TP3 reads 0v.
With Xenon's board hooked up to the J4 from my KISS the LED does flash 7 times. Hooked up to the Xenon - no flashes. This leading me to believe there is a problem with the J4 connector. I'm kicking myself because onsite I had unplugged it from the board when I did not need to.

Your driver board is neither the MPU or rectifier board. It's in the backbox, should be upper right. It has a big heatsink on it. On your driver board, what are you getting at TP5, TP1 and TP3?
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#12 1 year ago

Whoa, slow down! Before, you start replacing components, take a beat. As JethroP says, check all your connectors. Are they all properly keyed? Pay special attention to the SD J3, top right corner of the backbox, that connector can easily shift out of alignment or it's pins can grow cold over time and need resoldering.
The MPU needs, 5 and 12v to begin booting and 43v to finish. You seem to have verified above that the rectifier board is sending the right voltage except for the 230 but that voltage is just for the original displays and not needed to boot.

Pull the schematic and tech out the circuit posted by Knxwledge .
You should have 13-14v DC at TP5 and 5v at TP1.

#13 1 year ago

Re-pin all your connectors at the mpu.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I'm suspecting you may have hooked something up wrong when you got it home. Or there is a bad connection somewhere.

Yep. I mis-connected a connector on the SDB. I had disconnected onsite then realized I did not need to do that and reconnected it back right away. This connector is split into two connectors and I think it misaligned the bottom one. I found this when testing voltages as advised by @Knxwledge. Unfortunately, the game did not boot even after connecting it correctly. Will be posting the results in response to @Knxwledge.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

Yep. I mis-connected a connector on the SDB. I had disconnected onsite then realized I did not need to do that and reconnected it back right away. This connector is split into two connectors and I think it misaligned the bottom one. I found this when testing voltages as advised by Knxwledge. Unfortunately, the game did not boot even after connecting it correctly. Will be posting the results in response to Knxwledge.

Woof. This could be bad news depending on where the HV pins landed. You have 12v 5v 43 and 230v at that plug. I am sure the 12v to 5v voltage regulator would not be happy with +230v nor would the MPU be happy with 43v or 12v down the 5v rail. If your lucky you just grounded out the supply voltages and the fuses blew.

Check all your fuses. Get the connectors fixed up, keyed, and plugged in right and check voltages again without the MPU, lamp driver, or displays plugged in.

Be extremely careful around the +230v high voltage. I don't even like recommending probing it.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Your driver board is neither the MPU or rectifier board. It's in the backbox, should be upper right. It has a big heatsink on it. On your driver board, what are you getting at TP5, TP1 and TP3?
[quoted image]

I found the driver board and I see now how it inputs to the MPU board. I did not getting any voltage readings at TP5, TP3, TP1. I saw in the schematic where J3 powers those points so I inspected that connection and found that I misaligned one of the two connectors as mentioned in my previous post.

I got it connected correctly and... progress. When I powered on the machine I heard a solenoid engage and also heard a loud buzzing in the cabinet. I went to check the voltages again and they were still zero (TP2 was at 185v though).

The coil that engaged is the one for the top saucer - and it does not disengage. I powered down the machine and see that the F2 fuse is blown. This is a 3/4A fuse. I could not find this locally, but I did find .5A and 1A fuses. I've put in an order for 3/4A fuses from Amazon.

Can I continue testing with either a .5A or a 1A fuse? If so, is there something I should do before powering up again?

#17 1 year ago

OK, things are not getting better. Before you power up again you need to rebuild the broken J3 connector shell. Order a connector kit from Big Daddy https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/or another vendor but get that connector repaired and keyed properly. Since J3 caries power and hi-voltage you'll need to triple check the wiring per the schematics and make sure the wires are correctly positioned. Here is a pic lifted from the schematic to use.

The 3/4 amp fuse is for the high voltage. It's blowing may have save some of the components. I would leave it removed for now until you get proper replacements and the connector fixed. Order a fuse kit when you order the connector kit so you'll have the core fuses on hand.

The top saucer is Q17. If your lucky replacing that transistor will fix it. I recommend making all the repairs first then power up with every other board disconnected and measure the voltages at the SD board test points. Specifically you should measure 5v at TP 1 & 3 and 190v or less, (180 is ideal) at TP 2.

Once that is correct install only J5 on the SD and make sure Q17, the top saucer is not locking on. If it does shut down immediately and we'll have to go from there. Whatever you do, do not connect any other boards until you replace the fuse, have the correct voltages on the SD board, and Q17 is not locking on.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#18 1 year ago

Don't over fuse the display. High voltage burnouts are nasty and can happen fast. I got a picture of display board burnt to hell somewhere.

Make sure you get 6.3x32mm fuses aka 3AG type. A lot of the ones you find on Amazon are the Asian/Euro sized at 6x30mm which is a little smaller and may not fit right. Search for AGC for fast and MDL fuses for slow. Those are Bussman part numbers which is probably the most common brand.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

OK, things are not getting better. Before you power up again you need to rebuild the broken J3 connector shell. Order a connector kit from Big Daddy https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/or another vendor but get that connector repaired and keyed properly. Since J3 caries power and hi-voltage you'll need to triple check the wiring per the schematics and make sure the wires are correctly positioned. Here is a pic lifted from the schematic to use.
The 3/4 amp fuse is for the high voltage. It's blowing may have save some of the components. I would leave it removed for now until you get proper replacements and the connector fixed. Order a fuse kit when you order the connector kit so you'll have the core fuses on hand.
The top saucer is Q17. If your lucky replacing that transistor will fix it. I recommend making all the repairs first then power up with every other board disconnected and measure the voltages at the SD board test points. Specifically you should measure 5v at TP 1 & 3 and 190v or less, (180 is ideal) at TP 2.
Once that is correct install only J5 on the SD and make sure Q17, the top saucer is not locking on. If it does shut down immediately and we'll have to go from there. Whatever you do, do not connect any other boards until you replace the fuse, have the correct voltages on the SD board, and Q17 is not locking on.
[quoted image]

Looking at this connector(s) more closely, I don't think it's a broken connector but one that has been rebuilt previously. It's two 12 pin connectors. Matching the wire colors to the schematic, it looks like pin 13 should not be connected when using the two connectors. That would be a brown/green wire coming from pin 25. I see the wire coming out of the connector from pin 25 but not going anywhere. It's snipped and wrapped around the other wires.

Hopefully that means I can skip rebuilding the connector and just make sure I seat it correctly. Unless I need to do something with the brown/green wire?

EDIT:

".. it looks like pin 13 should not be connected when using the two connectors.."

This wrong. The two connectors are for the first 24 pins. The 25th pin has no connection. Realized this testing continuity from the power supply to the connector as I paid more attention to the wires. You guys are so patient.
.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

Hopefully that means I can skip rebuilding the connector and just make sure I seat it correctly. Unless I need to do something with the brown/green wire?

Don't skip on rebuilding a hacked connector. Especially one that carries high voltage. Use a proper replacement with a key.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Don't skip on rebuilding a hacked connector. Especially one that carries high voltage. Use a proper replacement with a key.

Yes, will rebuild it with a kit from Big Daddy. Not something I've ever done before. Looks like I'll need to get some tools too - crimper, extractor. I think I've seen some posts on here with good advice on how to do it.

I checked the schematic and it definitely looks like it needs pin 13. I was wondering how the machine had been working so I pulled the board and on the back there is wire soldered from pin 25 to pins 13 and 14.

While I had the board out I put it in my KISS to test voltages. I did it with only J3 connected.
TP1 .03V
TP3 .03V
TP5 13.62V

The KISS SDB is much better - 5.37, 5.37, 15.29 respectively.

So I take it the board itself has a fault. Not sure I have ruled out the connector, though. I don't think putting the KISS board(to test the connector) in the Xenon will help as it doesn't have the hack on the back. I guess I could try to do the same hack as lacking in soldering skills as I am. Just afraid to have two broke SDBs.

#22 1 year ago

Pin 13 needs to be connected to pin 25. There was a jumper wire originally on the 25 pin connector. But since someone changed out the 25 pin connector for two 12 pin connectors, that jumper is gone (as is the most important key to prevent happening what you apparently did). Jumping pin 13 to 25 on the back of the board is one of the published "bulletproofing" steps.

As stated above, at a minimum, replace that connector, and when you are repinning, reinstall the jumper from 13 to 25. Good luck. Hope you didn't do much damage.

#23 1 year ago

I got brave and decided to try to add the jumper wire on the back of the SDB from KISS to test in Xenon. I flipped the board over and it too has the jumper wire. LOL, I didn't even check for that last night.

I plugged the J3 connector(s) into SDB and tested the voltages. TP1 and TP3 read like .03V. I switched the machine off right away to prevent any damage to the board just in case.

Now I'm thinking the connector is bad and hopefully not the board. While waiting for the new connector, is there anything else I can test to verify the fault is not happening prior to the connector? Like maybe testing the connector in the wire harness.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

I got brave and decided to try to add the jumper wire on the back of the SDB from KISS to test in Xenon. I flipped the board over and it too has the jumper wire. LOL, I didn't even check for that last night.
I plugged the J3 connector(s) into SDB and tested the voltages. TP1 and TP3 read like .03V. I switched the machine off right away to prevent any damage to the board just in case.
Now I'm thinking the connector is bad and hopefully not the board. While waiting for the new connector, is there anything else I can test to verify the fault is not happening prior to the connector? Like maybe testing the connector in the wire harness.

It sounds like your 5v regulator (LM323K) is blown, and maybe other components in the circuit I posted above are blown

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

It sounds like your 5v regulator (LM323K) is blown, and maybe other components in the circuit I posted above are blown

And possibly the connector(s) have a fault as well. Seems the KISS SDB should work in Xenon.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

And possibly the connector(s) have a fault as well. Seems the KISS SDB should work in Xenon.

Yeah the Kiss driver board will work, will allow you to hopefully boot the game up (assuming no damage was done to the MPU). Before plugging in the MPU I would double check TP1 and TP3 on the KISS driver board when it's plugged into your Xenon. Having games to swap boards back and forth from is very handy in cases like these.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Yeah the Kiss driver board will work, will allow you to hopefully boot the game up (assuming no damage was done to the MPU). Before plugging in the MPU I would double check TP1 and TP3 on the KISS driver board when it's plugged into your Xenon. Having games to swap boards back and forth from is very handy in cases like these.

With the KISS driver board in Xenon, the voltages at TP1 and TP3 are low 0 - 0.003v. I plan to try and test continuity and voltages from the J3 connector back to the power supply. I have an order for new connectors and pins as well.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

With the KISS driver board in Xenon, the voltages at TP1 and TP3 are low 0 - 0.003v. I plan to try and test continuity and voltages from the J3 connector back to the power supply. I have an order for new connectors and pins as well.

Could be another blown fuse somewhere

#29 1 year ago

Xenon boots!

Thank you @Knwlege and everybody.

It boots using the driver board from KISS with the J3 plugged in correctly. A couple coils don't fire. I think the components may be bad. And KISS doesn't use them. Thinking of replacing them.

As for the Xenon driver board I'm going to start with replacing the 5v regulator.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from AitchB:

Xenon boots!
Thank you @Knwlege and everybody.
It boots using the driver board from KISS with the J3 plugged in correctly. A couple coils don't fire. I think the components may be bad. And KISS doesn't use them. Thinking of replacing them.
As for the Xenon driver board I'm going to start with replacing the 5v regulator.

Phew, thats good to hear. Coils not firing is very likely the transistors on the driver board, they go bad all the time. Diode check the ones in question against others in circuit that are good if you want to be sure. If youre gonna be working on the driver board(s) its a good idea (not necessary) to change the 2 filter caps if theyre original. One is for the 5v, one is for the displays. Also adjust your display voltage to 180v. If its unadjustable you need to troubleshoot the display voltage circuit

#31 1 year ago

Good upgraded driver board...
ebay.com link: itm

#32 1 year ago

Xenon plays!

I added the two missing transistors to the KISS driver board that I'm using in Xenon and that got it going 100%.

Will try to fix the Xenon driver board and of course fix the J3 connector when that comes in.

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