(Topic ID: 248681)

Help: Xenon spontaneous


By wheezil

3 months ago



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  • 19 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 89 days ago by frunch
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 3 months ago

I have a Xenon which just started exhibiting a spontaneous "slam" shutdown. At least I *think* that's what it is. I'll be playing and it'll make the tilt sound, but no tilt light appears and the game is over for everyone. I have to power cycle for it to respond. Does someone know what this behavior means for certain?

My unit is in pretty good shape, with new Alltek MPU and lamp boards, LEDs, and rebuilt flippers. The last thing I did was replace a flipper coil because one was non-functional. Flippers are working fine now, but this behavior appeared. Probably coincidence?

Thanks
john

#2 3 months ago

I would check to see if there's a disk capacitor on the Slam Switch (or any other switch) and replace all of those

#3 3 months ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

I would check to see if there's a disk capacitor on the Slam Switch (or any other switch) and replace all of those

^^Agreed, do this first. Replace all of the original switch capacitors on every switch under the playfield that you see. Remember that there are some on switches that are not called out in the manual, so visual inspection is your best bet to start with. The original Bally ones are junk and will die eventually. When they go, they do all sorts of weird stuff. I got a bag from Taydaelectronics.com for my older bally games.

#4 3 months ago

Did the new flipper coil have a diode?

#5 3 months ago
Quoted from JDissen87:

^^Agreed, do this first. Replace all of the original switch capacitors on every switch under the playfield that you see. Remember that there are some on switches that are not called out in the manual, so visual inspection is your best bet to start with. The original Bally ones are junk and will die eventually. When they go, they do all sorts of weird stuff. I got a bag from Taydaelectronics.com for my older bally games.

What's the part # or rating on the capacitors? That will probably help find it faster.

#6 3 months ago

Here's the caps for the switches:

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-100V

You'll want 0.047uf/100v ceramic caps. The switch matrix diagram in the schematics will show which switches get caps.

#7 3 months ago

I did a little more research, and i think i found a good place to start. As Cody mentioned above, you'll want to cut off a disk capacitor from one of the tilt switches--it looks like there's one wired onto the tilt bob on the inside of the cabinet. It shares the same circuit as the start/credit button, as i point out with blue arrows on the diagram. The green arrow is pointing to the disk capacitor wired onto the tilt bob. Go ahead and cut the cap off the switch--this is one i would not bother to replace either. All the other caps on the switches under the playfield--definitely replace them. If you're lucky though, this might get the game working properly for now.

56345132.png
#8 3 months ago

Here are the caps I've used without issue on my classic Bally and Stern games.
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/ceramic-disc-capacitors/10-x-0-047uf-50v-ceramic-disc-capacitor-pkg-of-10.html
GPE sells some as well that will work just the same, as mentioned above.

For Xenon, the playfield should have caps on the following switches:
- All 4 pop bumpers
-The 2 left side stand up targets
-Shooter lane
-End of tube switch
-All 4 top roll-over buttons (note that this is not listed in the manual, but was there from the factory)

As @frunch mentions, make sure to get the ones in the cabinet as well such as the plumb bob.

To get the game working for now, just cut one leg of the cap on each switch. You may not register every hit on those switches, but the game would play none the less.

Good Luck!

#9 3 months ago

If it was a normal ‘slam’ closure or even a false one the game would reboot automatically, you wouldn’t need to power it off and back on to get out of it as you mentioned. So as far as snipping all the caps I think that’s jumping the gun. Are you getting any error lights on the Altek mpu? What happens if you are playing a game and you close the slam, do you get the same sound effect etc. as when the game ‘dies’?

2 weeks later
#10 3 months ago

Wow, thanks for all the responses! You all are awesome.
frenchmarky -- good idea, let me see if I can make the same thing happen manually and/or check the MPU when it does happen by accident. It seems pretty odd that the state would be a "lock up" after the initial tilt sound.
electronmagic -- yes the flipper coil has two diodes pre-installed. Is there something I should watch out for?

Failing any progress, I'll get some caps and do a search-and-replace on the tilt and slam switches.

#11 3 months ago

Is it tilting or slamming? Tilt is just the loss of a ball in play. Slam should cause the game to reboot.

#12 3 months ago

bigal56 it makes the tilt sound, does not turn on the tilt lamp, ends the game, and locks up the machine. It doesn't reboot, but perhaps I just haven't waited long enough?

#13 3 months ago

Thanks! I'll go hunt down the slam switch.

#14 3 months ago

The manual/schematics are your friend. Download them at:
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2821

There's two slam switches, one on the coin door near the hinge, the other under the tilt ball roll cage on the left side of the cabinet.
When the game slam tilts, it effectively reboots and should come back about 10 seconds later in attract mode.

#15 3 months ago

Does in go into tilt when you start a game or after hitting a certain switch?
Do you use the coin slots and or coin switch's to add credits?
Its possible one of those switch's is stuck closed.
Had this happen on a Kiss game.

#16 3 months ago

OK... I've played a bit more until the problem happened a few times, and I've also manually tripped the slam switches. The behavior is definitely slam switch -- it makes the tilt sounds, and after a while it resets. I've also checked that there are no stuck switches. @wdennie I checked the coin switches and they are not stuck either.

I looked for caps on the slam switches, but there are none, and that jives with the schematics. Of course, there are diodes -- could they go bad? Perhaps replace them?

#17 3 months ago

One more thing... I usually have to play for maybe 5-15 minutes before this happens. I have not yet correlated this event with hitting a particular switch or target but I'll keep a closer eye on that.

#18 89 days ago

Update: all your advice around switch caps was right on. It was Dave at Alltek who narrowed it down to the tilt switch cap. Snipped that and all is better.

Follow up: Would it be worthwhile to replace all of the switch caps?

john

#19 89 days ago
Quoted from wheezil:

Update: all your advice around switch caps was right on. It was Dave at Alltek who narrowed it down to the tilt switch cap. Snipped that and all is better.

Lol, that was my guess 3 weeks ago further up this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-xenon-spontaneous-slam-shutdown#post-5131724

Glad you got it figured out! (And yes, i would recommend changing out all the caps--they'll be trouble sooner or later so might as well just do it properly now)

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