(Topic ID: 131799)

Help with Williams Dealer's Choice

By Lefman

8 years ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Lefman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 8 years ago

Hi there, I've been working on this pin and can't seem to figure it out, hoping ya'll can help!!
The 1st player 1000's reel won't reset. Looks like the other ones all do though..
Game won't start at all, the 2 banks of switches under PF just cycle..and the 1000's reel just does the clicking sound..
I've cleaned the score reel switches, adjusted them, slightly, to match other reels
I've checked coin door switches, score reel eos, and looked at all the switches/relays in cab and all look correct (adjustment wise)
I've looked through clay's guide but am stuck..

Any pointers would be great!! Tx! Greg

#2 8 years ago

Manually move the score reel one click at a time observing the position of switches. Do the same on the reel's neighbor. Adjust the thousands reel to match the neighbor in each position.

If that is already done, then you likely have a dirty switch. Clean all the switches on the thousands reel.

#3 8 years ago

Hi Nick, yes, I did everything you said! Even went to confirm switches on players 3&4 to be sure. I thought that would've done it too (Dammit!!)

#4 8 years ago

Manually set all score reels to zero, then push start. Does the game start?

#5 8 years ago

No it does the same thing, machine keeps running

#6 8 years ago

Have you chked the 10,100,1000 relays? they control the reels, maybe a dirty switch there? do you have the schematic?

#7 8 years ago

Hi, yes I pulled out all 4 reels, checked each one, even verified switch setting from the working reels (Player 2)
Here's a little more info, When turned on, all the reels go to zero besides player 1 1000 reel. Even if I set to zero, the following still happens:
Motor in cab continually cycles, the 1000 score reel sorta pulses, but doesn't spin.
There are 5 relays in head and the left 2 continually engage, disengage, engage, disengage, etc. The 2 far right ones are the 10's and 100's, those work normal. The middle one (1000 I assume), does nothing and does nothing when I try to engage it. Hope that info helps!
No, no manual at this time..

#8 8 years ago

if you set that 1000 reel to "0", does it continue to try to move?

#9 8 years ago

OK just did that, no it does not "pulse" like before but all the other things still continue to do as I said above...

#10 8 years ago

Hi Greg
for to reset the 16 Score-Reels: The 10 Point-Relay / 100 / 1000 are NOT used. The Reset-Relays and the Score-Motor do pulse directly.

ANY of the 16 Score-Reels can have a faulty-closed Zero-Switch. It must not be the "Player-1-1000-Point-Score-Reel.

Lets say: A man is sitting on a chair. It is evening (almost dark). He has a flashlight lighted. He has 4 fingers straight and 6 fingers bent. I give him the command: Slowly bend all Your fingers (one after the other, every second the next finger) so in the end Your hands are fists. And I say: As long as You have not bent all Your fingers - Say: "Not Yet, not yet, not yet, not yet" Shut up when all Your fingers are bent and turn Your flashlight OFF.

So we have 16 such men sitting in a room (almost dark), 16 flashlights are lighted. Some man have 2 fingers bent, some man have 7 fingers bent, some men have 4 fingers bent ...
I give the Command "Do the reset" - here and there I hear "Not yet / not yet / / / " and flashlights are turned-off (more and more flashlights are turned off / less and less "Not yet").
After a while I do not hear (any more) "Not yet not yet" - BUT ONE Flashlight still is turned-on - That stupid guy has stopped saying "not yet not yet" BUT HE HAS FORGOTTEN TO TURN HIS FLASHLIGHT OFF.
For ME the reset is done when ALL flashlights are turned-off - so I keeep-on giving the command: "Do the reset" - "Do the reset" - forever - forever (I do stop saying "Do the reset" when NO Flashlight is lit so I wait and wait ...)

So YOU MUST CHECK ALL 16 Score-Reels. Each Reel has a Position-9-Switch and it has TWO switches that open (SHOULD OPEN !!!) at position-Zero. Check every (16) Score-Reels: Do BOTH Position-Zero-Switches securely open (at Pos-Zero) ? Also check the blades (bent ?) Soldering Points ? (bent ? a piece of wire in between ?) Greetings Rolf

#11 8 years ago

Damn Rolf, nice analogy!!
I did do what you said (But it's late, so I didn't clean many contacts), but I did adjust all the reels. The game finally started! But I will need to continue tomorrow as a couple other ones aren't resetting now and the 1 player 1000's still doesn't register and it starts on second player instead of 1st (I have to manually get some reels to zero to get it to start)
So I think we're on to something and hopefully tomorrow I can continue cleaning, adjusting and see where it goes.
I will for sure update so if we fix it, it may help others.
Tx again! Greg

#12 8 years ago

Ok, tonight I started again tonight. Took out PF, cleaned adjusted all contacts in cab and the reels. Still had a few not resetting so started messing with them, got them all working except for original one. I do understand how they work but just cannot get the 1000's working. For the upteenth time, I took it out, cleaned, adjusted, etc. So I had it out and hit start, it was doin same thing, but I lightly put finger on solenoid plunger. It clicked right to zero. Did that a couple more times to be sure and it reset every time. So that plunger is loosy goosy, it has a little pin in there..
So is there a "trick" to securing that pin, or is it an ordered piece? Tx again for the guidance, Greg

#13 8 years ago

Hi Greg
I do not understand your text: "You put Your finger on the solenoid plunger - it clicked right to zero" - ??? Does that means: The Score-Wheel is stepped (forward) to zero (as it should) ? Only when You have Your finger on the plunger ? "It has a pin in there" ? The plunger must be hooked together to do the machanical work - You might take that little pin out and squeeze it "open-a-bit-more" and then put that little pin back.

When You put Your finger onto the Score-Wheel - do You manipulate a bit on the Zero-Pos-Switches ? Here: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=649 -> Schematic Diagram Part 2 of 3: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/649/Dealers_Choice_Schematic_02.JPG -> ... 7 - 8 - 9 -10 -11 -12 ... go from "10" , from that line , away (in rectangular direction) -> When "resetting": The coil gets current through (pulsed relay) "Switch-on-1-2-Reset-Relay" and "1st-Player-1000-Point-Drum-Unit-Zero-Break-TO-BE-CLOSED-SECURELY-AS-POS-ZERO-IS-NOT-YET-REACHED" (in my analogy: "Not yet not yet"). Greetings Rolf

#14 8 years ago

Hi Rolf, sorry if I was confusing, but the plunger that goes in that solenoid for that reel, is about 1/2" long when it's sitting idle. It is hooked to a piece of white plastic and has a pin or dowel (not sure what they call it) joining the 2. I did find this tho (WMS calls it a "drive pawl & plunger assy.". Part number is A-7254.
Just the plastic is 3B-7296, the plunger is 2A-3562-1, and the roll pin
is 20A-8716-20)...When I have the reel assy off, and in my hand, I turn on machine, press start and put a little pressure on that plunger and it seems to work then, putting the reel to zero and all other relays etc stop running. I have playfield out but am pretty sure a game would start then. I'm guessing it's loose and wobbly and not giving it the proper pressure it needs. I'll mess with it more tomorrow, see if I can provide better info. Tx Rolf...Greg

#15 8 years ago

So tonight I messed with that reel, unscrewed coil. On a whim, I replaced the coil sleeve (the old one was metal, but looked in good shape), with another and that was the ticket! I tested a few times and all the reels reset properly now...

The next problem is game automatically starts a 3 player game. I played all 3 players and looks like just a few adjustments/cleaning is needed. So good start! I haven't looked into the tech articles yet on this problem, but plan too..

Tx Rolf and others for pointing me in the right direction! Greg

#16 8 years ago

The Coin Unit stepper on the bottom board controls the number of players. It sounds like it might be stuck in the 3 players position. The steppers home position is for a one player game.

#17 8 years ago

Tx bonzo, I'll be looking at that in the next couple days--tx for pointing me in the right direction!!

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Lefman:

So tonight I messed with that reel, unscrewed coil. On a whim, I replaced the coil sleeve (the old one was metal, but looked in good shape), with another and that was the ticket! I tested a few times and all the reels reset properly now...
The next problem is game automatically starts a 3 player game. I played all 3 players and looks like just a few adjustments/cleaning is needed. So good start! I haven't looked into the tech articles yet on this problem, but plan too..
Tx Rolf and others for pointing me in the right direction! Greg

Yeah I have the same machine and had the same issue. The coin unit is really touchy on this machine. It needs to be cleaned and lubed completely. I also had to change the springs as mine were worn out. I would love to see some pictures if you have any, my PF is pretty rough and I would like to have some good reference shots if yours is nice.

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from unhappyelf:

Yeah I have the same machine and had the same issue. The coin unit is really touchy on this machine. It needs to be cleaned and lubed completely. I also had to change the springs as mine were worn out. I would love to see some pictures if you have any, my PF is pretty rough and I would like to have some good reference shots if yours is nice.

Yea, just have other things going on but will certainly check those out! Here's some pics for you, it's dirty as I was doing repairs 1st but let me know if you need any other, Greg

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#20 8 years ago

Cool, thanks for sharing. It looks like yours has different pop bumper caps. I like yours more. I wonder if I can fine some like those.

Also does yours have lane guide plastics in the advance bonus lanes at the top?

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from unhappyelf:

Cool, thanks for sharing. It looks like yours has different pop bumper caps. I like yours more. I wonder if I can fine some like those.
Also does yours have lane guide plastics in the advance bonus lanes at the top?

Hey there, mine do have the lane guides.. Here's a pic

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2 weeks later
#22 8 years ago
Quoted from unhappyelf:

Yeah I have the same machine and had the same issue. The coin unit is really touchy on this machine. It needs to be cleaned and lubed completely. I also had to change the springs as mine were worn out. I would love to see some pictures if you have any, my PF is pretty rough and I would like to have some good reference shots if yours is nice.

Bingo! Finally got a chance to work on this, the coin unit stepper would not reset, even after lubing/cleaning. I ended up turning the main spring a few times and it reset, then it wouldn't step up cleanly! So I tightened the two longer springs and now it's working! So all the issues, I believe are fixed, time to clean it up! Tx guys for the point in the right direction, Greg

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