(Topic ID: 295151)

Help with #space Odyssey

By Rascalian69

2 years ago


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There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 2 years ago

Hi, I am a newbie.
I just aquire a 1976 Williams #Space Odyssey game.
It was in a rough stage, but littke by little after a lot of cleaning and documentation.
I am hitting a wall.
Now the game is turning on, all the light are on, the credit button when pushed reset the score, I have player 1 on , ball in play, then nothing, the ball doesn't get kicked out, the flipper don't function, the swinging target doesn't move.
And when I remove the glass non of the roll-over, or bumper switches works.
Any idea, anyone?
Thank you for your help and surport.

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#2 2 years ago

Does the Outhole relay activate when this happens?

#3 2 years ago

Thank you for your answer ill check right away.

#4 2 years ago

Ok, so now when I push the credit button, the coin relay is activated, and also the second coin relay, and reset the score to zero,
the credit reel is counting down 1 credit.
No more player "ball in play" or "player can play" light.
Olso when I turn on the game, the "lock relay"is opening up and stay open.
I thought it was important to mentioned knowing that it should be close.
All light on playfield are on.
Still no action on flippers nor bumper ...etc. no swinging target.
Only 1st player can be lit.

#5 2 years ago

And no the outhole relay does not activate.
Sorry I thought I answered the question .

#6 2 years ago

Sounds like the reset sequence hasn't finished.
Is the Bonus unit reset to zero?

You may have to clean this switch if it does.

found the schematic here
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2254/Williams_1976_Space_Odyssey_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

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#7 2 years ago

If the lock relay isn’t working it’s normally closed switch will keep power applied to the game over relay trip coil , not allowing the machine to reset.
Open gap of switch to test.

#8 2 years ago

If I manually add bonuses through the coil then yes it reset it to zero.
I checked all the switches according to the schematic, all of them besite the lock one are in the open or close position they are supposed to be.
I cleaned all the contact with alcohol.
When I try to force the lock relay, it's making a loud buzzing sound and refuses to stay in position.
What is interesting is that the game over doesnt lit.
It's really a chinese puzzle.

#9 2 years ago

The lock relay should stay on as long as there is power.
If the main fuse 15 amp for the 24v power isn't blow.
If other coils are working, it is not the fuse.

I suspect your lock coil needs to be replaced or something in impending the coil from staying pulled. (not power, but something physical.)

Can you post a pick of the lock relay and coil.

#10 2 years ago

If the lock relay isn't pulling the game over relay Trip will fire. and put the game in a game over state.

You could test this by putting a piece of paper between the two contacts.

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#11 2 years ago

None of the fuses are blown.
In between which contact do I need to isolate the game over switch?
The lock relay stay open so I can't really isolated it.

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#12 2 years ago

When game is off it return to a close position.

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#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Rascalian69:

When game is off it return to a close position.
[quoted image]

That switch isn't closed

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

#14 2 years ago

Also once, after cleaning switches and contacts.
The swinging target worked for a little time till one of the wire got unsoldered .
I then resolder the wire ( not the best job) , do you thing maybe I did it wrong and the motor when bad and that is what is causing the problem?
Can I isolate the swinging target motor to see if it will resolve the issue?

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#15 2 years ago

Your are right i just realized this on my picture, mabe I should try to adjust it

#16 2 years ago

Ok i feel like an idiot, so I just adjusted the switch it's now close and stay close, but no change.
I also took some pictures of the coin settings.
The previous owner really did a number on it including reversing the plugs.

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#17 2 years ago

Thank you for helping, we are moving in the right direction

#18 2 years ago

Any ideas anyone??
Why #space odyssey doesn't start?

#19 2 years ago

The swinging target motor works only off of 1 switch on the game over latch/trip relay. That’s where I’d be looking first. Check the mechanical operation of latching along with checking it’s switches and switch gaps. Clean and adjust switches if needed.

#20 2 years ago

Thank you, I will check.
And will let you know about the result.

#21 2 years ago

Ok so interesting stuff.
If I push down the latch relay.
So now in M&B close close open open
And game over light on.
When I press credit button.
The 1st reel turn from 9 to 0
Ball in play 1er lit, the 1 can play lit.
Then nothing, no flipper action no swinging target no points on anything on playfield

If I keep pressing the credit bouton it will either count 1 credit or get stuck
With only ball in play 1 lit.
To get some action again, I will have to manually push the game over latch to put it in game over again.

Then go back to game over after counting down all the credit.

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#22 2 years ago

But no matter what flipper won't move and none of the roll over, bumper, swinging target or anything else will work.
BTW to add credit I have to manually action the 25cts relay it activate the knocker and and the reel and add 3 credit each time.
Nothing happened if I use a coin.
Sorry about all those info, but I try to give as much as info as possible.
I don't really know where to start.

#23 2 years ago

if the ball hasn't kicked over to the shooter, the game probably hasn't finished the reset sequence.

first thing I'd do is manually set all the score reels to non-zero and reset the game. You need them to all go to zero.

when that happens the reset relay will lose power, the outhole relay will power, the ball release will send the ball to the shooter, and a bunch of stuff on the playfield will work.

if the reels are all zero but you don't get a ball, look and see if the reset relay is still powered.

a big hint that the reset hasn't completed is if the score motor is still running.

#24 2 years ago

The reels do reset to Zero.
Everytime.
When I push the game over latch, the
10000 reel only move from zero to nine then zero again and stops.

#25 2 years ago

The last 2 two bladed switches are gapped too far and are dirty. Unplug machine to clean switches ( one of the switches is 120v for the swinging target motor), adjust short blades for a closer gap and have overtravel when closed in latched position.

#26 2 years ago

there's three switches on most score reels.

1] 9th position switch

used to increment the next higher reel when a reel goes from 9->0. Not important for reset.

2] zero break.

these switches are on the schem around E10 in series with score reset relay switches. They stop the reels incrementing during reset when the reel reaches zero. One blade of the switch on each reel is connected directly to the reel solenoid coil, so you don't need to bother looking at wire colors to see which one it is.

3] zero position switches

these are all connected in parallel across all the reels. Each reel has one and the blades have yellow and blu/brn wires. They are at schem C4 and are shown as one symbol labeled "(8) drum unit zero pos.sws.".

it's the zero position switch you really care about. If a zero break switch didn't work, the usual result is a reel will reset to 1 because an extra pulse snuck thru before the score reset relay switch opened.

after the reels have reset, if the game is just sitting there with the score motor running lift the playfield and look if the reset relay is still powered. If it is, you need to check all the reel zero position switches.

manually tripping the game over relay when the reset relay or some other relays are powered doesn't really tell you anything unless you carefully check the schematic and determine what SHOULD happen. You are doing something the game normally would never do, so the results can be nonsense.

#27 2 years ago

Ok I guess I have some homework, I'll do all of this and will keep you guys posted.
One good question , what are you using to clean the contact
And blades?

#28 2 years ago

Also when I put a coin it actually go backwards with the credit reel and stop at zero, the coil on the money panel is buzzing loudly.

#29 2 years ago

I have have made some progress.
After adjusting the switches.
1 do increase the credit by 5 unit for every quarter.
And it does count down 1 credit every time I press the credit but.
Also when I manually add some point using the switches in the head ( work only for player one , for so e reasons I cannot select player 2) the reel reset to zero when I press rest or credit bouton.
But still no further action.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from Rascalian69:

Ok I guess I have some homework, I'll do all of this and will keep you guys posted.
One good question , what are you using to clean the contact
And blades?

that's a religious can of worms, but the info here is good:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

Quoted from Rascalian69:

Also when I put a coin it actually go backwards with the credit reel and stop at zero

there's some switches on the credit unit and one is an EOS (end-of-stroke) switch where the blades get shoved when the reset solenoid plunger sucks into the coil.

it may be an odd switch that has three blades that don't normally touch each other, but when the reset plunger pulls in they are all mashed together. Got a picture you can post of the switches on the credit unit?

if the credit unit reset coil is still firing when there's no credits, the EOS switch is not adjusted right. If the credit unit reset coil doesn't power when the credit unit is zero, is the credit button switch stuck closed?

if "money panel" = the front door on the cabinet, does the buzzing coil have white and B-R-G wires on it? If yes, that's the coin lockout coil and they will eventually buzz due to wear on the coil top and armature plate.

the lock relay does the same thing because it's held powered almost all the time.

post a pic of what's buzzing to confirm if you like.

#31 2 years ago

Ok so the two first one are the credit unit switch.
And the last one is the door coil that buzz time to time and stop some time when I feel it a coin
#space odyssey

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#32 2 years ago

Also I checked with a voltmeter the poles on the swinging target and it's feed (110 v)
But the relay switch doesn't get energized.
It works once the I had to solder a wire again and then nothing.
Is there a way I can manually trigger the swinging target motor to see if everything is still working?

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#33 2 years ago
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#34 2 years ago

Also here is some pictures of the settings
I do not know if there is something miss placed.
Setting of located in cabinet # space odyssey

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#35 2 years ago

The last cam is the impulse cam. The top switch in the stack, the long blade needs to be adjusted downward so the switch is closed in the cam low position.

#36 2 years ago

Settings in the head #space odyssey

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#37 2 years ago

Under the Playfield settings
SPACE odyssey

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#38 2 years ago

pinballdaveh
Here is a better picture
So which blade do I need to adjust?

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#39 2 years ago

The last cam on the right. The top switch. Do you see how the white plastic lifters almost touch each other. File clean switch and adjust long blade for proper operation.

#40 2 years ago

pinballdaveh
#space odyssey

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#41 2 years ago

Also don't if this can help,
The only thing that works on the playfield is the kickers
The one on the bottom by the flippers are working normally
But the ones in the middles the 500 bonuses ones.
Are doing something strange they are both kicking four times.

#42 2 years ago

On the outhole relay #space odyssey
It seems to look like some new black wire has been soldered.
Not sure if this should affect the position of the blades
Or if it's normal?

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#43 2 years ago

#space odyssey
Can anyone could tell me where to located the score reset
Relay?
I have no idea where this one can be.

#44 2 years ago

the score reset relay could be in the head. The coil would have black and black-blue wires on it (but see stuff about jumper wires below).

however, it's not really the relay you care about. It's job is to make pulses to reset the score reels, and that is working.

the reset relay is probably on the bottom board in the cabinet. That's the one you want to see if it's powered if the game isn't completing reset.

don't worry about the swinging target ... or anything else really ... until you get the game to reset and the ball to kick over to the shooter.

the buzzing coil on the coin door is the coin lockout relay. What to do about it depends on whether you want the game to use coins or if you are planning on making it free play (replay button works even when no credits).

the switches in your credit unit pic are "pin" switches that operate by the peg sticking out of the ratchet/gear. Can you take a pic from further back of the whole unit including wiring to various pieces?

the black wires on the outhole relay switches are ok. Those are jumper wires. The yellow power wire goes to multiple switches on the outhole relay, so to make manufacturing easier they use the jumpers which can be soldered onto the relay before it's installed in the game. When you see those plastic coated jumper wires, they should be considered to be the color of the game wire they attach to.

e.g. the gray jumper going to the outhole relay coil is the same as the black-blue wire that is on the switch

#45 2 years ago

Thank you so much baldtwit for your answer.
So yes I found the reset relay, it's in the head and it's label
1-2 reset relay.
Now the one I didn't post is ball count unit.
I'll post a picture of it too.
Let me know if you need anything else.
And again thank you everyone for your help.

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#46 2 years ago

Now I would love to make it free play.
It might remove some issue too.
In between the door switches and the different coins relay.
How do we do this?
Let's pretend I am 8 years old, and not from here. Which is not far from true since I have about 2 month of behind the scene pinball experience and was born and raised in France.
But I always had a fascination of the game since I was a kid.
Now this #space odyssey pinball machine was not in the best condition, but it's part of the fun.
And challenging too.

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Rascalian69:

Now I would love to make it free play.
It might remove some issue too.
In between the door switches and the different coins relay.
How do we do this?

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#free

#48 2 years ago

Unless I am reseting manually the reset relay doesn't get powered.
Sometimes it somehow get a movement, then for a second the player one, ball #1 , and ball in play get lit, then back to game over.
And after pressing the credit button couple time it get frozen with nothing happening at all.

#49 2 years ago

Awesome thank you HowardR
It seems pretty simple for Williams EM

#50 2 years ago

looks like someone replaced your score reset relay coil by replacing the entire metal frame, so you got the wrong label on it. It's also the wrong coil part number, but it'll work.

the reset relay won't power unless the game over relay has tripped, then it should power and stay powered when the coin relay powers until the score reels are zeroed.

the switch on the lock relay is closed when the lock relay is unpowered, so when you first turn on the game the game over relay should trip at the same time the lock relay is powering. It's a race, but the game over trip coil is slightly higher power and should win every time.

the lock relay stays powered forever, so you need to either turn the power off/on, manually trip the game over relay, or the ball count unit needs to be stepped up and the zero switch closed (red arrow below) for the reset relay to work.

maybe I misunderstand the problem ... is the game over relay tripping during the reset process?

if the lock relay is not powering and staying powered when you turn on the game or the switch on it isn't opening, that will cause the game over relay to trip (daveh said that in post #7)

if it's not the lock relay/switch, then the problem is likely the ball count unit isn't resetting all the way or the zero switch on it is stuck closed. You can verify by sticking a piece of paper between the switch contacts on the coin relay with the yellow and blu-or wires. Looks like the center switch on the stack has those wires.

you'll probably want to clean off the traces on the ball count unit. A green scrub pad and alcohol works. Remove the black stuff. Most people put a thin smear of lube on the traces which helps the wipers reset when the reset plunger is pulled into the coil. What lube to use is preference, but it can't be tacky or it will make the wipers stall. Don't use standard WD-40 as a lube ... anywhere.

you should test all stepper units by manually stepping and resetting them to make sure the wipers whizz back to reset.

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