(Topic ID: 93281)

Help with Roadshow please:


By dbpbandit

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 42 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by dbpbandit
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

road-show-mouth-motors.png
motorbrd1b.jpg
242773c.jpg
034.JPG
2014-06-05 15.18.17.jpg
2014-06-05 15.18.01.jpg

#1 5 years ago

So I figured out why the game wont start, it's because of a coil in the pop up assembly (see pick)
The game can sense a ball in the lock but this small coil has to pull in to let the ball roll down, trip the switch, and then the second coil pops the ball out. The coil will not fire and someone tried to rig it so the ball will always roll down and get kicked out. I'm thinking this may effect the multi ball feature of the game? Anyways, can someone tell me if all of the parts are here? It looks like there may be something missing? Can someone please snap a pic of a working unit ?

Thanks

2014-06-05 15.18.01.jpg 2014-06-05 15.18.17.jpg
#2 5 years ago

Bump, because I am of no help.

#3 5 years ago

I am working on a RS right now and will shoot a quick pic in a few....it looks right from what I remember. Do both coils fire in test mode?

#4 5 years ago

Thanks, and no. Only the pop out one fires, the other foes not. I need to figure out if it's a bad coil or something on the driver board. I just want to make sure all of the parts are present. Seems to me like it's missing something. Thanks, I'm looking forward to the pics.

-Dave

#5 5 years ago

You could give the manual over at IPDB a look and see if that assembly is in there. If it is it should show you all the pieces required for proper function. Good luck with you search.

#6 5 years ago

Figue out why there are zip ties there ? Cut them out.

#7 5 years ago

Does the coil fire in test mode? The assembly looks fine if I remember correctly. Test your driver transistors to see if it is working.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Wariodolby:

Figue out why there are zip ties there ? Cut them out.

The zip ties look like they're holding the gate in since it never operates it. Looks like an operator hack job.

#9 5 years ago

Not much to it. Here's mine.034.JPG

#10 5 years ago

Cool, thanks for the pic. I can see where I am missing a piece from the bracket. (see pic) I actually found this in the bottom of the cab, now I know where it came from. Now I need to figure out how to fix it. Looks like it's a guide of some sort, not sure how it will work without it in place.

I did remove the zip ties and yes, the operator had them there to keep it open.

Also, I figured out why Red's mouth isn't working. Looks like the motor board is missing a resistor at R13 (see pic) I need to find one of these resistors and I'm hoping that it just fell out. My luck the operator cut it out out to fix another issue I haven't found yet.....

Thanks again for the help.

242773c.jpg
motorbrd1b.jpg

1 week later
#11 5 years ago

I'm not sure if this is the right way to redirect but I've started a project thread on this here:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/road-show-project-1

#12 5 years ago

Congrats on detailed trouble shooting!

Your post and replies have been a big help to me too!

#13 5 years ago

Thanks, I'm glad it's helpful.

1 month later
#14 5 years ago

Hey Guys, I've got an odd issue with Red... When the game starts her moth is constantly opened? It does move up and down when she talks but It should be closed, almost like it's working in reverse? Any suggestions please?

Thanks.

#15 5 years ago

Maybe she's hungry for some balls?

#16 5 years ago

Maybe???? I just fed her the other day....

#17 5 years ago

BUMP and an Update:

So I still can't get Red to keep her big mouth shut.....

I've checked all of my connections and all of the solder joints on the motor control board. When I run Red through the test her mouth closes but doesn't stay closed, even thought the "mouth Closed" portion of the test is still running. One thing I have not done yet is to switch Red and Ted's connections at the motor control board (just wasn't thinking straight last night) I'll do that tonight and that should tell me if it's an issue with that board or something else. In the meantime, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

#18 5 years ago

Swap the motor assembly with Ted and see if problem follows motor or stays with Red's control circuit.

#19 5 years ago

I'll do that tonight, thanks.

#20 5 years ago

Check for broken teeth on the gears, very common problem. Causes all kinds of sliding with the mouths. You have to really inspect them, both that connect together.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Check for broken teeth on the gears, very common problem. Causes all kinds of sliding with the mouths. You have to really inspect them, both that connect together.

I did check for this and neither gear sets are missing any teeth. Both move smoothly.

Thanks.

#22 5 years ago

Hmm, it is strange it works correct in test to close, but then slides open, have you checked the long link piece that can break too, and everything going from the motor to the plastic jaw piece?

From what I recall you can moved manually with the machine off, and I don't think either direction falls or slides back to open or close. It sounds like a gears problem somewhere, maybe not a tooth exactly.

#23 5 years ago

I have pulled the entire assembly apart and I even replaced sector gear with a new one. Everything "mechanically" looks good and works smooth. It seems to me that it's an electronic issue, like the motor isn't stopping when the mouth is in the closed position. The motor IS opening the mouth and closing it, it just wont stay in the closed position. After I swap the connections tonight I'll see if it's the MCB, if not and the problem stays the same, i.e. the problem does not go to Ted, then at least I can eliminate it as the culprit.

#24 5 years ago

Sounds like its the motor board I know the capacitors can be flaky and effect the voltages for mouth movement and open and close .I had a issue with this also

#25 5 years ago

Yep, it's definitely the MCB causing the issue. I switched Red and Ted and sure enough, the problem moved from Red to Ted.

So, I checked it out and I can't seem to find anything wrong with it. However, I did resolder one if the coper coils (not sure of the actual name of these parts) because it looks like it had come lose and someone did a crappy job of repairing it. I also replaced the other resistor (I replaced the originally missing one prior to this) but now, Ted's mouth only opens and closes about half way. Red however is still the same, she wont close her mouth and keep it closed. So basically I went from bad to worse.... I don't have any matching caps but I'll pick some up and replace them next.

Does anyone work on these? Does anyone sell these? just asking, just in case.

Thanks.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from dbpbandit:

Yep, it's definitely the MCB causing the issue. I switched Red and Ted and sure enough, the problem moved from Red to Ted.
So, I checked it out and I can't seem to find anything wrong with it. However, I did resolder one if the coper coils (not sure of the actual name of these parts) because it looks like it had come lose and someone did a crappy job of repairing it. I also replaced the other resistor (I replaced the originally missing one prior to this) but now, Ted's mouth only opens and closes about half way. Red however is still the same, she wont close her mouth and keep it closed. So basically I went from bad to worse.... I don't have any matching caps but I'll pick some up and replace them next.
Does anyone work on these? Does anyone sell these? just asking, just in case.
Thanks.

When I got my machine it didn't have the issue but after playing the balls off it (pun intended), it shared the same issue. I even went to Rat Shack for new motors and adjusted Red's face and it helped a bit. Reflowing the solder on the board helped much better but I bought a new board for PSPA (they're still in stock) and Red's mouth moved normal/much quicker so glad I bit the bullet. I'm sure someone can get your board going again but I didn't want to be without the game for a few weeks. http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/a-19159.html

This board is also used in Corvette FWIW.

This was my post last year about mine: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-with-rs-dual-h-drive-motor-controller#post-1153813

#27 5 years ago

Thanks for the tip and the link. I may just go this route if after replacing the caps does not fix the issue.

#28 5 years ago

Use a multimeter to check continuity from the big ceramic resistors to wherever they connect elsewhere on the board.

I had a problem with Red's mouth working intermittently, and after way too much troubleshooting, I realized that the leg of one of the resistors was just resting against the where it had broken off. I resoldered it and was perfect after that.

Because you had to replace the resistor, I'd say it's worth looking in that general area.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from mot:

Use a multimeter to check continuity from the big ceramic resistors to wherever they connect elsewhere on the board.
I had a problem with Red's mouth working intermittently, and after way too much troubleshooting, I realized that the leg of one of the resistors was just resting against the where it had broken off. I resoldered it and was perfect after that.
Because you had to replace the resistor, I'd say it's worth looking in that general area.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check that next. It makes sense because Ted was working fine right up until I replaced that sand resistor. I almost switched it back to the old one.

Last night I replaced the two 100mf caps, replaced one of the tip 102's that was giving me a odd reading, replaced one of the diodes that looked suspicious and I also repined the connector going to Ted's motor. With all of this, absolutely nothing has changed.... It's really starting to bum me out.

#30 5 years ago

Don't get despondent! Think how great it will feel when you figure it out. I wish I had copied my RS manual when I had it...I will try to download it and see if I can come up with anything.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Don't get despondent! Think how great it will feel when you figure it out. I wish I had copied my RS manual when I had it...I will try to download it and see if I can come up with anything.

Thanks.... I had to back away from this because I was starting to get to frustrated with it. I refocused my energy to a lighting issue with some of the GI's. This was also a frustrating problem but I eventually figured it out and yes, I do enjoy that feeling....
I will start back on the MCB tonight and see how far I get.

Thanks.

#32 5 years ago

Kudo's to you for wanting to fix vs. replace. That's the most rewarding thing. Please update as you find the issues. Especially with the MCB. I still have mine that's 95% but would like to fix it.

#33 5 years ago

OK, I finally got Ted to work normally after I replaced the header pins on the board where the motors connect. However, Red's mouth will still not stay shut. It closes but continues to the open position without even stopping. I have checked everything on the board and I do not see anything wrong. If I connect Ted to the it does the same thing so the issue is not with the motor or the connections. What controls this before the MCB? Maybe the issue is somewhere else? Any help is really appreciated...

Thanks

#34 5 years ago

I've been thinking about this (really bugging me) There must be a controller or sensor somewhere that must relay information as to the position of the mouth motor? Or information as to when the mouth motor hits the stop point? Is that on the MCB or is that on the CPU or somewhere else? Based on my observations it seem like the motor never stops when the mouth closes, just reverses back to the open position. In test it "thinks" the mouth is closed even though it's moved back to the open position. When the next phase of the test starts "open mouth" the motor never engages but the test results change to "mouth open" ?? The issue may still be on the MCB since I found, while troubleshooting, that if I left Red's motor disconnected, Ted's mouth would work as normal. Once I plugged Red back in Ted's mouth began to have the issue again. (mouth would not open and close properly and move really slow) Come to think of it, I'm not 100% sure I solved Ted's issue. It seems to work during game play but I don't think I went back into test mode and tried it from there (I'll do that tonight) I'm just thinking (typing) out loud here and ANY help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from dbpbandit:

There must be a controller or sensor somewhere that must relay information as to the position of the mouth motor?

I thought there might be switches, but I checked the switch matrix and confirmed there are not.

The mouth motors have a special board that can drive the motors in both directions. (See schematics from manual below.) It runs either direction briefly, and assumes that the movement has been completed.

Note that this is fundamentally different from the bulldozer motor, which only runs in one direction but has switches (switch 12 dozer down, switch 15 dozer up) so it knows where it's at.

road-show-mouth-motors.png

#36 5 years ago

Thank you for the information mot. So it sounds like it is an issue with the MCB then... So, if "It runs either direction briefly, and assumes that the movement has been completed" then it sounds like a timing issue? i.e. the motor is running too long in the "mouth closed" command? There must be a logical reason why this is happening. I know I can buy a replacement MCB but I'd hate to spend that $$$ only to find out that it's not an issue on the MCB. Although, it sounds more and more like it IS an issue with the MCB.... Thanks

#37 5 years ago

Well it looks like the BLACK-BROWN wire turns the motor on or off, and the BLACK-RED wire controls direction. It seems like the signal that controls direction might be the problem. Maybe try diagnosing backwards from there?

Edit: maybe watch the signal on TED during test on his control line, since you know that works... then do the same for RED and see what's different, then work back?

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Edit: maybe watch the signal on TED during test on his control line, since you know that works... then do the same for RED and see what's different, then work back?

I'd need a logic probe for that, I don't have one... But I will trace those back and see what I can find, if anything. Thanks.

#39 5 years ago

If they're wired as solenoids, I don't think you'd need a logic probe, just a voltmeter.

But don't assume I'm right without a second opinion.

#40 5 years ago

So I should check the voltage going to each motor? Is that what your suggesting? Or check for voltage at the other end of the MCB?

#41 5 years ago

Mmm.... both?

#42 5 years ago

OK, I'll check and let you know what I find. Thanks

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