(Topic ID: 292416)

Help with glitchy playfield-swapped lamps

By rockwell

2 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by TheLaw
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#1 2 years ago

I am finishing up a Harlem Globetrotters On Tour playfield swap (my first), and tonight got it dropped into the cab and fired it up. Surprisingly, no major malfunction! However, the lamps are bugging. The GI strings look good. But the controlled lamps are rioting. Maybe someone out there has experienced something similar and can point me in the right direction.

The Lamp Driver board is a new Alltek, and the lamps are all new LED (lamp driver board installed properly). I went through and tested each bulb individually with a wall puck-modded-with-alligator clips, with one clip clamped onto the GI braid, and tapping through the ground lugs of each lamp. They all seem good and came on solidly.

When I fire up the game, here's what it looks like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3euucbw02h6gzd6/status-ready.mp4?dl=0

If I gently pound on the playfield a bit, or wiggle it with some vigor, sometimes the lights fall in line and look/blink perfectly normal. But usually it just stays like this.

When I fire up a game, here's what happens (you may want to turn your volume down to save yourself from the gate mech death rattle):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5i4fr8gkyby84c/status-game-on.mp4?dl=0

And when I put the ball in play, here's what that looks like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wfajev4v3ewce4f/status-action.mp4?dl=0

You can see how the GLOBE letters aren't really working, and when the bumpers activate lights blink all over the place.

So it seems like something is loose somewhere, or perhaps there is a short? I was pretty careful and the work is pretty clean, but I can post more pictures if that helps. Not sure where to start, but clearly something under the hood isn't right. Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

#2 2 years ago

Hmmm...you dont accidentally have the GI string connected to the controlled lamp string maybe?

#3 2 years ago

What's it look like when you run the diagnostics controlled lamp test? Might help point to something.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

What's it look like when you run the diagnostics controlled lamp test? Might help point to something.

Here's a quick video of the lamp test:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tihkgr9ryrc683g/lamp-test-1.mp4?dl=0

And here's a quick look at what happens when I slam the coin door during lamp test ("bad" lamps flash on):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s40ve4zehucqzq/lamp-test-2.mp4?dl=0

Quoted from TheLaw:

Hmmm...you dont accidentally have the GI string connected to the controlled lamp string maybe?

I don't think so, but I will double-check. Is there a way to test that other than visual inspection? Since I had the old pf for reference, I was pretty diligent about making sure things were put back the same, but you never know.

#5 2 years ago

Also check the bare common wire going to the lamps that are *not* lighting up in the test, trace the wire to where it goes or comes from (until it ends up at a lamp that is working) and look for a bad connection/solder joint there.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Hmmm...you dont accidentally have the GI string connected to the controlled lamp string maybe?

This is what it seems like since there are insert lights that stay lit. This could be verified by disconnecting the J1 or J3 connector from the lamp board and seeing if a given lamp is still lit. Just focusing on your bonus inserts, it looks like 4k, 5k and 10k are affected. If you disconnect J3, does the 4K bonus lamp stay lit?

Also check the braid near the lamps that DONT turn on to see if you're getting 5V.

I see that you're a local, I could swing by to take a look if you're so inclined. Just hit me up.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Also check the bare common wire going to the lamps that are *not* lighting up in the test, trace the wire to where it goes or comes from (until it ends up at a lamp that is working) and look for a bad connection/solder joint there.

Right on, I will confirm.

Quoted from FatPanda:

This is what it seems like since there are insert lights that stay lit. This could be verified by disconnecting the J1 or J3 connector from the lamp board and seeing if a given lamp is still lit. Just focusing on your bonus inserts, it looks like 4k, 5k and 10k are affected. If you disconnect J3, does the 4K bonus lamp stay lit?
Also check the braid near the lamps that DONT turn on to see if you're getting 5V.
I see that you're a local, I could swing by to take a look if you're so inclined. Just hit me up.

I appreciate the offer to pop over and take a look, I may take you up on that! Let me try to unplug the J1/J3 and see if any controlled lamps stay lit, I can follow up with you tonight. The J1 and J3 connectors have not been re-pinned yet either, though J2 and J4 have. For what that's worth. I'll also check voltages.

#8 2 years ago

When you were slamming the door it looked like the lights that weren't working perked up... and the ones stuck on all the time were winking out too so whatever it is it seems to be from the same issue. The solid ones winking out from that vibration, I wouldn't think there was an errant, solid connection to GI but I guess a wire could be loose and flopping around and touching something it shouldn't. Or just something else weird at work there.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Right on, I will confirm.

I appreciate the offer to pop over and take a look, I may take you up on that! Let me try to unplug the J1/J3 and see if any controlled lamps stay lit, I can follow up with you tonight. The J1 and J3 connectors have not been re-pinned yet either, though J2 and J4 have. For what that's worth. I'll also check voltages.

Is the assumption that everything worked before the swap?

#10 2 years ago

Are you getting any abnormalities on the displays too?

What happens if you disconnect J3 (cabinet/coin door switch harness) from the MPU board?

#11 2 years ago

Would pulling the GI fuse point to anything? If it in fact the GI wiring was involved with this?

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Would pulling the GI fuse point to anything? If it in fact the GI wiring was involved with this?

Worth a try.

Since the behavior changes when opening/closing the coin door it looks like a shorted switch matrix wire touching the door frame. Likely the red-green wire which goes to the slam/coin switches based on some of the lamp behavior I'm seeing.
The lamp selection signals from the MPU board are also used in the switch matrix and display selection.

#13 2 years ago

I would put it back into lamp test mode then unplug coin door to see if its the problem. I would remove all light board plugs and inspect them. They need to be clean and firm. You can backlight them to look into each connector to see if it is plump or flattened. Usually the end pins are the problem. You can release them from housing with a fine point like exacto knife. Pull a few out and inspect for corrosion. Also if its an alltek mpu double check the game setting dip switch.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Are you getting any abnormalities on the displays too?
What happens if you disconnect J3 from the MPU board?

No abnormalities on the display panel as far as I can tell. Will double-confirm.

I will try disconnecting J3 and pulling the GI fuse and look closer at the coin door this afternoon and report back results. The behavior change that you see when slamming the coin door also happens when slapping the playfield itself (coin door shut and unmoving). Which doesn't rule out something touching the door frame, I suppose. I'll give it a look. It also exhibits the same behavior when the playfield is up, and not in the cabinet.

Quoted from FatPanda:

Is the assumption that everything worked before the swap?

You would think I would be smart enough to do that. I sort of am. The bulbs were not working 100% when I got the machine, and some initial examination revealed at least two bad transistors so I said "screw it" and powered forward while ordering a new Alltek, which of course I didn't install and test and get everything working on before I tore it all down

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

You would think I would be smart enough to do that. I sort of am. The bulbs were not working 100% when I got the machine, and some initial examination revealed at least two bad transistors so I said "screw it" and powered forward while ordering a new Alltek, which of course I didn't install and test and get everything working on before I tore it all down

Good rule of thumb before starting a swap is to ensure that the game is at least playing/working 100% so that way, you know for sure if you introduce a problem during the swap. Knowing that the game was working before the swap would have ruled out some potential issues, with wiring and the board being those issues. Though we could assume that a new board is working properly, we can never be too sure.

With Quench on the case, you are in good hands

#16 2 years ago

Yes, I self-learned that lesson after I ran into a few other instances where I failed to confirm if some parts were working I have already taken the "make sure it's fully operational" mantra to heart on a different project I'm about to start. Good to go there.

Appreciate everyone's advice so far, will report back my findings in a bit.

#17 2 years ago

OK, good news bad news. Good news is I determined the issue. Bad news is, I did it to myself...

broke (resized).jpgbroke (resized).jpg

What had happened was, I removed the gross mylar under the slam switch on the door when I cleaned it up and repaired it. Naturally, forgot to replace the mylar. And voila! Found myself in a mess.

Thank you to everyone for the tips, and a big pat on the back for pointing me to the coin door.

Quoted from frenchmarky:

I wouldn't think there was an errant, solid connection to GI but I guess a wire could be loose and flopping around and touching something it shouldn't. Or just something else weird at work there.

Weird, indeed. Thank you, friend.

Quoted from Quench:

Worth a try.
Since the behavior changes when opening/closing the coin door it looks like a shorted switch matrix wire touching the door frame. Likely the red-green wire which goes to the slam/coin switches based on some of the lamp behavior I'm seeing.
The lamp selection signals from the MPU board are also used in the switch matrix and display selection.

He just strolls in and says "red-green wire" and "slam switch" and boom! Nailed it.

Quoted from FatPanda:

With Quench on the case, you are in good hands

Apparently so! Thanks again, fellow Madisonian.

I owe all of you a beer and/or non-alcoholic beverage of your choice next time I see you. Or Fat Panda can just claim them all.

I'm sure I'll be back for more soon! Until then, here's my fix Cheers!

fixed (resized).jpgfixed (resized).jpg

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Bad news is, I did it to myself...

Well...pretty sure we all figured that

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well...pretty sure we all figured that

Haha, yes. I guess that part is obvious Guess I shoulda said "Bad news is, I am a gigantic dumbass!"

Maybe that is also obvious

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Haha, yes. I guess that part is obvious Guess I shoulda said "Bad news is, I am a gigantic dumbass!"
Maybe that is also obvious

I can't wait to get to the level where we don't screw things up with PF swaps
I've got 3 coming up so hopefully toward the end? But probably not.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I can't wait to get to the level where we don't screw things up with PF swaps

Does that happen? Might be a while for this kid

Currently have three pop bumpers all firing in unison.

At least that should be an easy fix. Jinx!

#22 2 years ago

I never even knew there was mylar under the slam switch to tear off. I mean how often do you need to adjust the slam switch, nobody ever looks there. That one would have been tough bug to discover if the guy before you was the one who tore it off.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

That one would have been tough bug to discover if the guy before you was the one who tore it off.

Ha, no. It was me. Thus: dumbass.

I thought about just leaving it, but it was all peely and gross. I'll slap a little sticker under there and we'll be good to go

#24 2 years ago

That interesting, I wasn't aware of there being any mylar under the coin door slam tilt either. I've worked through a few Bally games and never noticed it on any of them. Regardless, glad you got it figured out. Even with the simplest mistakes, it feels good to get them sorted. Now enjoy your minty Harlem! I bet it plays really nicely!

#25 2 years ago

I thought I'd take a look at a couple of my other 80s games' slam switches... Gottlieb used a thin strip of fiberboard, Williams used fishpaper. At least *those* ya can SEE!

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Now enjoy your minty Harlem! I bet it plays really nicely!

Thanks, will do!

Quoted from frenchmarky:

I thought I'd take a look at a couple of my other 80s games' slam switches... Gottlieb used a thin strip of fiberboard, Williams used fishpaper. At least *those* ya can SEE!

Yeah, something you can actually see is a nice touch! Of course, if the mylar is half falling off and dirty and bubbly like mine was, you can see it just fine

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I thought I'd take a look at a couple of my other 80s games' slam switches... Gottlieb used a thin strip of fiberboard, Williams used fishpaper. At least *those* ya can SEE!

Yeah i was familiar with Sterns fiberboard as well & I have noted the mylar on my Ballys.
Luckily, I think we can always remember this now

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