(Topic ID: 206938)

Help With New PF: Filled In Holes Chipping Like Crazy


By nerdygrrl

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by kruzman
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

I am doing my first CPR PF swap, I've done one other cleared swap before so know the basics. I am using brand new dewalt brad points, etc.

I just started this and just by checking hole diameter managed to take clear off, and then my first attempt to clear out with the drill took off more. I am a little shell shocked here and not sure how to proceed.

As you can see many of the holes have paint and clear inside and a couple are painted/cleared over. Is that what is creating the weakness and causing it to chip like so? I was wondering if the lack of adherence for lack of a better term may be the cause. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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#2 1 year ago

Ron Kruzman sells a kit full of dremel bits and clear coat in a syringe to remove and repair the clear during a playfield swap. I just got mine in the mail yesterday, going to use it on a Mirco TOM...

#3 1 year ago

Also maybe shoot a PM to soulrider911 he is doing FT CPR swap right now, he may have some additional help or tips...

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Ron Kruzman sells a kit full of dremel bits and clear coat in a syringe to remove and repair the clear during a playfield swap. I just got mine in the mail yesterday, going to use it on a Mirco TOM...

I will take a look at his kit. Do you have a link?

I'm not sure if the dremel will help given how "fragile" it seems to be. Just checking the diameter took one piece off. Maybe some heat and a hand file?

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I will take a look at his kit. Do you have a link?
I'm not sure if the dremel will help given how "fragile" it seems to be. Just checking the diameter took one piece off. Maybe some heat and a hand file?

No link, just PM kruzman and he will get right back to you, he can help with some ideas on how to get better results

#6 1 year ago

Has the clear coat cured long enough yet?

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Has the clear coat cured long enough yet?

The run was from five months ago so I thought it would be ok to start working on it.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Ron Kruzman sells a kit full of dremel bits and clear coat in a syringe to remove and repair the clear during a playfield swap. I just got mine in the mail yesterday, going to use it on a Mirco TOM...

Oh man, I need to order this. Can you say the price here or best just to contact Ron?

#9 1 year ago

I got a little nauseous just looking at those pictures, please keep us up to date on what solution(s) you find for this. I have a F14 swap planned for later this year and it will be my first one so I'm already nervous about it.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

Oh man, I need to order this. Can you say the price here or best just to contact Ron?

Just contact Ron

#12 1 year ago

If I run across any excess clear issues on any playfield I restore, I use a brand new super sharp #11 X-acto blade to carefully "shave" the clear back. That said, I usually only have to do that with the star inserts but the principle is the same.

#13 1 year ago

Run the drill in reverse. I never had luck with Brad points. I just use a new standard bit.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

vid1900 has five key posts that cover repopulating a cleared playfield without cracking.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/45#post-2611546

Thanks, I have read it several times and I am using the methods he outlined. I still got the lifting which is why I am concerned.

This is my first CPR, the last PF is did was a SoF that Neo touched and cleared, so only clear got into the holes. With this the paint is kind of hanging off and I was wondering if that was the cause. That is never properly adhered or that it is creating the weakness and making it easier to pull.

I am going to try MrArt2u's method with an exacto. I just need to go out and get some new blades.

#15 1 year ago

On the two I've done I used a counter sink on all the holes first and then drilled out the ones that needed to be drilled out to allow for proper fitment.

Not sure if that helped or I was just lucky but that's what I've done. One of the PF's was from CPR and the other was from Mirco.

I also agree that the Brad point tip may not be the best option. I would use a standard bit as the bevel will help.

#16 1 year ago

I cannot recommend the Kruzman kit enough. You won't chip any clear with them; I would never do a swap without them.

#17 1 year ago

I totally understand your frustration. I too bought the best brad drill bit set available for my first restoration. I found the brad bits to be too rough on the clear. I 100% recommend Ron's dremel and glue kit. The dremel bits are so easy to use and they do not damage the clear around the hole. You get several dremel bits of different shapes and sizes that you can use depending on the hole you are working on. Operate the dremel tool at low speed, and let the bit do it's job. Ron's kit makes pre-drilling holes a breeze! You can also repair the damage you have using the dremel bits. Seal each hole with the glue provided and you are good to go. If you want to see how I pre-drilled one hole, Check out the link below starting on post # 156

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nosnew-playfields-available-as-of-june-5/page/4#post-3943599

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

I totally understand your frustration. I too bought the best brad drill bit set available for my first restoration. I found the brad bits to be too rough on the clear. I 100% recommend Ron's dremel and glue kit. The dremel bits are so easy to use and they do not damage the clear around the hole. You get several dremel bits of different shapes and sizes that you can use depending on the hole you are working on. Operate the dremel tool at low speed, and let the bit do it's job. Ron's kit makes pre-drilling holes a breeze! You can also repair the damage you have using the dremel bits. Seal each hole with the glue provided and you are good to go. If you want to see how I pre-drilled one hole, Check out the link below starting on post # 156
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nosnew-playfields-available-as-of-june-5/page/4#post-3943599

Very nice. I am thinking about heading to Lowes now to grab some rasp bits and other things for the Dremel to try.

The last PF I did the brad points worked just fine. Not sure what happened here. Maybe I didn't heat the clear enough. It's definitely made me more gun shy than I was and I didn't think that was possible.

#19 1 year ago

I'd suggest reaching out to CPR. Though care needs to be taken with playfield prep, this type of fracturing is usually indicative of an expediated curing process.

#20 1 year ago

I make a kit that will allow you to remove the clear before drilling so there is nothing to chip. this also works on the t nuts so the teeth dont crack clear, and the dreaded pop bumper nail screws. I include a tool to measure everything as well as a glue kit with very thin glue that repairs halos around drilled holes, and glues the clear down to the pf around the edge of the hole, with hypo needles since the glue is thin enough to soak in to the wood and up under the clear. the whole thing is 75 bucks plus shipping.

#21 1 year ago

I've done many pf swaps and never had a problem with this.
I use a thin round file (used to sharpen chain saw blades), to remove any clear that blocks the hole.
You can also run a drill bit thru from the underside. Not a brad point, but a standard bit.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Jjsmooth:

You can also run a drill bit thru from the underside. Not a brad point, but a standard bit.

I used this technique multiple times on the SBM I'm re-doing. Not sure if Vid mentions it but it helped me out quite a bit.
I'm not sure what all is in kruzman's kits, but will source one from him before my next project after reading so many positive reviews.

#23 1 year ago

Thanks for all of the replies guys. Like I said, I think I was just gun shy after the first few bits came off. I didn't have anything like that happen when I did my SoF.

After reading some of the initial posts here and talking to some of my local guys, I decided to go the Dremel route for the rest. Hair dryer, then file/grinder dremel bit, then actual drill bit.

Still need to clear out the siderails and top t nuts, but may wait until tomorrow as I don't think mentally I can handle anymore setbacks. I really need to find a hobby that doesn't drive me to drink

Ron, that kit sounds awesome. I'll have to grab one for future PF swaps.

#24 1 year ago

Pf swaps can be nerve wracking. so much money, and one little problem. I have a file of nightmare pics that people have sent to me.
I have learned to walk away for even a week, otherwise I get the attitude that I screwed the pooch, this is junk now, and I start throwing expensive things.
Hopefully my stupid process will work for you and fix a lot of your issues.
cheers, kruz. galesburg MI

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from kruzman:

Pf swaps can be nerve wracking. so much money, and one little problem. I have a file of nightmare pics that people have sent to me.
I have learned to walk away for even a week, otherwise I get the attitude that I screwed the pooch, this is junk now, and I start throwing expensive things.
Hopefully my stupid process will work for you and fix a lot of your issues.
cheers, kruz. galesburg MI

I can imagine and nowadays for better or worse everyone is doing a swap. Must keep you busy. I love that you put a kit together. It sounds really well thought out.

#26 1 year ago

The kit worked out awesome, but honestly it came from me trying to find a better way to install the cleared pf's. lets face it the auto clear dose not like getting drilled, so I am glad I figured it out. I added this measuring tool to the kit for another 5 bucks tacked on to the price, but it is a tool that is priceless when installing. The glue kit came from the fact that I dimple pf for people who have undimpled pfs and are going to install, which I highly do not reccomend! So I buy 2 sheets of 3/8 plexi and make templates from a used and usually new pf then drill and dimple them. well one job was cleared by another clearcoater and every single time I drilled a little dimple, I got a halo around the hole from the clear lifting. I feat like I wrecked the customers board. I started screwing around to fix it and thats how the glue kit was born. now I just sell them together. So let me know if you need one, and sorry to hawg your thread. the pics on my old thread titled sept pfs available has pics of that dimple job, and the before and after pics of the holes with the clear pulled up and fixed.

OK good luck and cheers. kruzman

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