Just eyeball it and adjust until it plays the way you want it to play.

Don’t overthink it. Get level where game plays not too fast or too slow to your liking.

I am not an expert on this but I have a CGC game (MMR) and a Stern game (Mando). The B/W design and the Stern design are different. The location of the leg bolt holes (compare rear top and front top hole location from the bottom of the cab or obviously you can compare the bottom holes alternatively), is not the same measurement difference in B/W pins and Stern pins. It seems that Sterns are designed to play steeper MAYBE as that measurement difference is bigger on Sterns. So, if all of the leg levelers are dialed all the way down, the designed leg bolt measurement differences from front to back will determine the factory baseline leveling. Adjust that UP for preference, from the back levelers is my suggestion, but you could make it less steep by adjusting the front levelers up I guess. Again, I am not an expert but I just leveled my Mando and have leveled MMR in the past. My front leg levelers are dialed all the way down on both machines but my MMR rear levelers are dialed higher than the Stern if that helps..I am just talking about front to back leveling. There are other advice givers here for side-to-side leveling..

Make sure your table's playfield is flat in both the left-right and up-down directions. If it’s warped it’s really hard to find a setup that works well.

Here is my method. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tip-how-to-level-your-machine-and-how-legos-can-help

Table .... lol

The playfield must be warped. It should be the same pitch everywhere if it were perfectly flat. Some variation may be expected but over 1 degree difference seems like a lot to me. But I have never had this issue so I’m not sure and I can’t tell you what a reasonable tolerance is.

A pinball machine is a flat topped thing with four legs. In other words. A table.

I have been seeing that word used more and more. Well it does have four legs and is flat on the top. Just don't keep your beer on the glass.

Please send pics of your dinner , drinks , magazines, feet on your "table" ..
Tables are flat four legged , not full of mechs ,electronics , angled and many other features ...
What pinball machine is this ?
...

pasted_image (resized).png

OK GEN Z'ER...

Lol ...
Laughed so hard almost crashed my sled ... sorry car !

I don’t call them tables. But I don’t make fun of those who do. It’s apt and it’s a term that more casual people tend to use, or people that have come from a computer game background where every pinball video game for 30 years calls them tables (it makes a lot of sense in that context where you can play and download various tables, not machines). A lot of people enter the hobby that route. Also it is indeed used by many pinball fans and even in the industry. I see it as snobbish to insist that $10k man-toys should be called machines and nothing else. It probably makes us feel better about our investment, less child-like, and more masculine. There was a time when pinball almost died. I am happy new people are coming in and they can call them tables. It’s okay. Also recognize there there are pool tables, ping pong tables, shuffle board tables, foosball tables, air hockey tables, all game room things that are played with little round balls or pucks and it’s reasonable for pinball to fit with those.

Never made fun of the OP of this thread ... I find the Verbage of "table" for Pinball funny ... so on that note.
I will now move on to other things .
Such as ..
Tablelife First and Free
This Week in Tables
Buy parts from Tablelife
Mr. Table Classifieds
Or will just read and post here on Tableside

To #Swearwolf this wasn't a personal attack accept my apology if taken as such ...
Welcome to the world of pinball and welcome to Pinside

My $0.02.......

Stop overthinking things. How often, or fussy, do you think operators were or still are about leveling a PINBALL MACHINE?

Now if you mean your table, well you need that level to stop your drink rolling off!

Pitch is only measured between the flippers. That's why manufactures put the bubble level parallel to the flippers. On modern games, pitch will increase as you go up the playfield. On older games, it doesn't increase. Pitch stays the same. No idea on the physics on that, but digital level don't lie.

Measure pitch only between the flippers, check side to side level anywhere you can place the level on the playfield. I use and highly recommend the Craftsman digital torpedo level. Perfect tool for the job. The Pinguy app for apple devices is also accurate.

I’m the same way. Barely use a level. Sometimes I do get a friend that comes over and says one or two of my games are leaning one way or the other. I guess I just don’t like perfectly level games. Haha

I don't own any pinball machines that have a flat top like a table...

And welcome, @Swearwolf , don't mind us, we are just messing with you about the "table" thing.

If your playfield is warped that’s possible. If your playfield is flat the pitch is the same over the entire surface.

Do you measure a difference in the pitch of your glass too? May have something to do with the way you’re performing the measurement.

I adjust my back feet all the way up and front feet all the way down. Then I level the pf at an additional 9 degrees. Cuz fuck me that’s why.

If you can play pinball on a cliff you can do anything.

68ABF726-8635-4E01-A29F-127D4A4D058D.gif

A box on legs I think, box being a more accurate description. Nothing's happening on top of the glass.

No. It's very easy to see with a digital level. Even brand-new playfields are this way. For kicks, I just checked a Stargate I have. 5.9 between the flippers, 7.1 at the top of the playfield. Pitch does stay the same on the glass.

I won't down vote you like you did me, but really, you're wrong in this case. Check with a digital level and it's easy to see. Again, I don't know the physics involved, but the level doesn't lie. Pitch is only measured between the flippers on a modern game.

Interesting. Which of these do you think best represents a playfield that has a different slope on different parts of the playfield?

PossiblePlayfields (resized).png

That’s only possible if:

A/ your playfield isn’t straight

B/ your level is crappy

The playfield *should* be in a straight plane. It’s not uncommon for them to sag with age.

I had a 90s Williams on which the MDF side rails had cracked in the middle because the ply was so sagged by the weight of all the mechs.

rd

Just try it on your newest game. The original poster noted this (different pitch at different parts of the playfield) in his first post about a MBr. He's not out of his mind.

I've tested my digital level against another of the same kind and the Pinguy app. It's dead on nails. Heck, you can probably see it with an analog angle finder. Not sure why this occurs. Angle of the cabinet, location of playfield mounting positions, but it happens.

Oh yeah - for sure.

When the playfield is down, if it’s got heavy shit on it, it’ll likely sag.

For example, STTNG is often sagged. That’s the machine of mine that had cracked playfield rails.

Led Zeppelin Pro will never sag.

At the end of the day, it’s just a thin piece of plywood, only kept straight by whatever material the manufacturer ran up each side of it.

As far as levelling - I’ll usually put the PinGuy app a few inches up from the flippers and use that as a guide to get my 7 degrees (or whatever I want).

Then I’ll play a few games - you can soon tell if it’s out of level or not. Just watch how the ball travels.

rd

Another consideration is that newer CGC (and Stern, not sure on JJP) games (like MBr) have the leg bolt holes moved compared to older games. If you install the game on a flat floor with all four levelers fully raised, the factory bubble should be close to the middle and you'll read about 6.5 degrees pitch between the flippers. Very little adjustment needed. Wont happen on a crooked garage floor, but on a level floor, that's the new starting point. Used to be you had to extend the back levelers an inch and a half or so and start there.

I went from going by the book and crazy accurate to this method on all 90s plus games

Swiss army knife app on phone
Bubble level, 14 -14.5 degrees on glass.
Play it hard and fast.

Tweak to suit any drift left right.

You’re not using the glass to level your game I hope?

The glass has no relevance to the playfield at all.

There is no mechanical connection between them. They are totally independent. How the playfield sits in the cabinet is up to the playfield pivots, the front hangers, the lockdown bar and how it’s mounted … and all can be way different.

And of course the playfield itself, which isn’t always perfectly straight.

Always level from the playfield.

rd

nah your wrong...with my games anyway.

Do tell - so your pinball machines are different somehow?

Notice the difference in this side drawing between the angles of the playfield and the glass:

pf (resized).png

Nope - I have NEVER seen a "flat topped pinball machine". It is deliberately angled for one, so you can't put a drink on the glass!

What tables have mechanical devices, wiring, lights and electronics?

Tables are indeed flat things with 4 legs, that does NOT make a pinball machine = table.

yeah It's not an insane change, gradual though.
I usually do btwn 6.8 and 7 between the flippers.
If the playfield was laying flat in the cabinet it would probably be the same slope all the way down, but its also slanted on how it sits in there.
Just my guess... I've never really thought about it to hard.