I’m putting my 1977 Gottlieb big hit back together today, and when the game goes through start up, the score motor spins, the score wheels reset, and the score motor stops. But I only have play field lights for a moment. If I manually actuator the Tilt Hold relay the lights come on. But it does not look like that relay is pulled in on its own.

If I’m reading the schematic right, the only things in the Tilt Hold delay’s path are a normally closed switch on the T relay and then a make-brake switch on the AX relay. I have checked and adjusted both of those. Anything obvious I missing?

I should point out that the game is in “tilt“ and “game over“ in terms of what’s illuminated on the back glass, even though the tilt relay is not pulled in.

Figured it out — the anti-cheat switch in the head wasn’t clean and it caused the Hold relay to release and, thus, the tilt hold relay.

First problem solved.

OK next question. When I first start up a game, whichever bases were illuminated from the previous game before power up, stay on. So those three interlock relays are not resetting. In reading the schematic, I am unable to tell what should cause those reset relays to activate - it’s a pretty complicated circuit. Not sure what the “Hit Unit” in that path is indicating for sure.

There is a motor 1Anormally open switch with a black-white wire in that path. Here’s a photo.

Thoughts?

BA0383BC-F913-48E6-B741-2C1BE57985B1 (resized).jpeg

Here’s a link to a video of the inconsistent resetting/clearing of the bases.

It seems to follow this pattern too, which is weird:

Reset,
doesn’t reset,
reset,
reset,
doesn’t reset,
doesn’t reset.

And then it repeats that entire cycle again.

Also, if the disc on the Hit Unit is misaligned (the shoes are touching the rivets, but maybe it's disoriented?), would that cause this to sporadically happen, given that the Hit Unit is in the rest path for the three relays we're talking about? Since that stepper doesn't ever reset, I'm not sure what a "Home" position would be, though.

Thanks guys. Mark, occasionally 1 or 2 would reset but not the third.

However, I have adjusted that stepper unit some more (took it apart again, re-tightened the set screws in the camshaft, cleaned and lubed the rivets again (third time), and tightened down the rotator plate with the shoes. The game seems to be working 99% correctly now in terms of baseball logic / scoring (fingers crossed).

We can revisit this one if it starts to act up again.

OK next two issues:

The two bulbs that light the “special when lit“ inserts, are extremely bright and keep burning out now and then. I am wondering if this has something to do with the two resistors that are in that path. I have never worked with resistors before and know nothing about them.

Also, when I get a drop target bank down, even though the special will light, I cannot get the knocker to go off. The knocker does work, because I’ve heard it go off for the score thresholds.

Second issue: This just seemEd to start happening as the day went on and I was playing it more and more and trying to troubleshoot that special issue above. I can be playing a game – does not matter which ball is in play — and seemingly randomly the game will just lose power to the flippers. Playfield lights stay on, but after the ball drains I have no flipper power and the game does NOT go to game over, nor does it go to tilt. It still shows the ball I was playing on the backglass.

I THINK it’s going out after sending five pulses to the hit unit. It definitely happens more frequently when I hit a drop target. But not always. Other things can cause it. Sometimes I can hit the drop targets and they are fine. Instead, maybe going over a homerun roll over up at the top of the playfield will cause it, etc.

The CRAZYest thing that I’ve experienced with this issue is sometimes in the middle of playing a game it will reset the score reels during the middle of a ball. Sometimes the game goes to Tilt and ends. Sometimes it does what I’ve described above.

Thoughts?

Hi Mark, I put new 47’s in those sockets. Should I put 44s in instead? Let me do some sleuthing and see if the x-ray they looks like it’s gaps normally. I’ll report back.

Mark / Howard, I'm taking two steps forward and three back - still a student-driver here, haha.

Ok, let's just start where we are now:

1. Backbox lighting. Shows Game Over and Tilt. Score reels are at zero.
2. Start button does nothing (no motor, no playfield lights).
3. Manually actuating the AX Relay (which I've cleaned and gapped and am almost positive is moving/gapped correctly) does turn the score motor but nothing else happens.
4. My first thought is: Maybe the game is stuck in Tilt. The switch inside the door is mashed together as tight as can be and clean. Same with the ball-roll switch (on this game the schematic says it's a NC switch). Same with the switch on the bottom board. Same with the switch in the head. The one under the playfield is bent wide open. The tilt-bob, interestingly, has never worked -- not sure if that's related.

I was making progress, I thought, on the bigger issues and now I'm back further than I was.

Earlier I was adjusting the 2C Motor Switch that causes AX to reset (as I was trying to fix problems in earlier posts I was having trouble getting the AX to reset and the startup sequence indicated that switch as the most likely culprit.

Mark

Thanks Howard, my (very slow) brain finally landed on the start relay path about the same time you must’ve typed this.

I have been wasting time looking at the tilt, hold, and tilt-hold relay paths, but then realized that the start path has to be working for some of those to do their jobs. Looks like my anti-cheat switch and the door was the culprit. Damn those things – even when I clean and mash them shut they still give me problems.

OK please stay tuned. I’m going to try to get this game from 90% to 100%, and I’m sure I’m going to have one or two remaining questions. Thank you guys so very much.

Duplicate to post below.

So it looks like it moves whenever a run is scored. Maybe it’s triggered by the “runs“ score reels.

Basically here are the 4 remaining issues with the game as I see them, and I’m going to try to list all 4 because they may all be related:

1. MATCH LIGHTS -- Although the FS relay does move and change the match number sometimes, it doesn’t seem to do it as consistently as it should. (One question related to that mini stepper itself is how tight that spring should be. It seems very good and tight, yet the actuator plate seems like it’s having trouble “rebounding“ after being pulled in by the coil.)

2. MATCH KNOCKER -- The match works inconsistently. Every now and then I’ve gotten a match and I believe the knocker fires. But several other times when I’ve gotten the match, it does not knock.

3. SPECIAL LIGHTS -- The special lights do not light at all when I knock down the drop targets. Mark I checked the U Relay and it looks perfect. (Note that I was able to get these lights to turn on and alternate when I manually knocked down the drop targets and manually moved the FS relay plate up and down. Also remember, per a previous post, that these are the two bulbs that seem to be burning very brightly. I did swap them out again for 44 bulbs, but they do seem to be a little bit bright still. Not sure if that has anything to do with this whatsoever but wanted to point it out.)

4. SPECIAL SCORING / TARGET RESET -- Rolling over the target with the special lit does not make the knocker go off (even though the knocker works), nor does it reset the drop target banks.

I believe (fingers crossed) these are the only remaining issues with the game. I’ve played about 30 games on it this evening and all of the scoring and baseball functionality seem to work correctly.

Let me know which schematic paths would be helpful and I'll post them ASAP. Thanks team

Mark thank you very much. I'll try to track down each of these and report back. To answer your first question, I do always disassemble the FS Relay and clean it, polish the boards, apply a small amount of Super Lube, etc. The connections and Jones Plugs appear ok but will double check closely.

Will report back.

Mark / Howard / DaMoib, I resolved items 1-3 above. The Match lights move consistently now after servicing the FS Relay for a third time, and the knocker and credit unit coil consistently fire now whenever I match. The Special Lights also work and seem to alternate pretty much correctly.

So #4 is the last remaining issue on the game. The U Relay does NOT pull in when I roll across the lit Special switch, so of course the target banks don't reset and I'm not getting the knock or credit. I would appreciate help diagnosing that circuit to identify the switches unique to that path. I know there's a second path to U for when the targets reset for a new ball that is working.

What's confusing to me is that if the Special Lights are getting power, that seems to me like the path to the U Relay is working all the way from the NC Switch at Motor 1C to the sequence completed switches on the target banks (including THROUGH the make-break on the FS relay), which would seem to indicate the culprits are BOTH (since neither side works) side-rollover switches (the last remaining switches in the path). That seems odd that both wouldn't work, especially since both appear to be clean and gapped well. But perhaps it's as simple as that?

Thoughts?

Mark

.

Thanks Mark. I may have to find some help locally for this last part. Using a meter is still baffling to me (not so much the concept, but the actual setting and use of the device) since I've never used one prior to trying to in this hobby. I might be able to figure it out with jumpers if you can give me some pretty specific ways to check it that way (?).

Update: if I jumper from the maroon green wire at motor position 1C all the way to the maroon green wire on the U relay, and power the game up, the target bank reset coils fire repeatedly. I’m not sure if that helps us any or not, because I guess it could be going through the “other“ path to U.

Second Update: from what I can tell, I can jumper every point along that circuit and the knocker does go off in awards a credit at every point. So I’m guessing, per your instruction above, you are correct: it’s not any of the switches in the path, there must instead be something wrong with one of the wires itself? I don’t know if there’s anything else I can check with the jumpers. Would love some very very very specific instructions on what to do with the meter I guess.

Third update: Just trying to provide any clues I can here: it appears that when I do the jumpering, with one end clipped to the maroon-green wire on the U relay, when I touch the circuit at any other point, it causes the bank to reset and the knocker to go off and award a credit as described above. However, the one place this doesn’t happen is if I touch the maroon-green wire on the rollover switch itself. The other two wires on the rollover switch cause the “fire immediately” behavior. But the maroon-green one does not until I roll over that switch, with it clipper there, then the circuit works correctly. So the jumper in that case would be functioning exactly like the wire in the game should be. In other words, I could leave the jumper clipped there in the game would function correctly. So that tells me, I think, that the failure is in the maroon-green wire somewhere between the U relay and the rollover switches themselves.

Yes, that’s what I think I’m describing in update number three above. That makes the switch start working correctly. It doesn’t fire it immediately, but when I roll over the switch then it works correctly.

Holy crap, I found it! I started trying to find the maroon-green wire throughout the game, and I stumbled across this.

This is in the main harness going from one of the big Jones plugs in the bottom that connects up to the playfield.

It’s the maroon-green wire, broken. That has to be it. I will solder that back together and wrap it and should be on my way. I’ll report back.

8C271AEB-B2E1-4D0E-90B1-881FE10BEB26 (resized).jpeg

Works!

Thanks, Gents! I think the game is now finished. I’ll let you know if I come across anything else but I believe that was the last issue.

Thank you again so much — time and time again this forum has come through for me in restoring nearly 3 dozen games now!

Mark

No, they are still burning to brightly.

Also, I have now had a NEW issue pop up, and of course it’s in a complicated circuit: sometimes randomly while I’m playing the game, the bell coil will stay energized and will not turn off even after the ball drains.

If I power the game off and turn it back on, then it resets.

So essentially the K (runs) relay suddenly decides it wants to stay energized. Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks Howard I will. I will likely have follow-up questions. One thing to note, if I manually actuator the K relay, it causes it (the relay and thus the bell coil) to stick on as well. And I can get it to stop by manually moving the “ones runs“ reel one digit.

Also, if I manually depress any of the relays (double, triple, homerun, etc.) that results in a run scoring, it locks in the bell coil.

I will check and report back tomorrow Howard. Also, conceptually, I understand how to use jumpers to check when a circuit is not working, to identify which switch is not “making”. In this case, we’ve got something that’s firing that we don’t want to. So how would I use jumper wires (or something else) to check those circuits, when I don’t want to jump over open switches? I’m still learning so this is an important concept for me to get. I’m hoping the answer isn’t a multi-meter because I’m a lost cause with those so far.

Howard, when I manually actuate the K relay, the Add One Runs unit (score reel) tries to advance one but the plunger doesn't make a full stroke, and as a result, the EOS switch never opens.

If I block the EOS switch contacts and then manually actuate the K relay, it advances one digit normally and K does not lock in (normal operation).

So guessing the issue is just that the EOS switch isn't opening most of the time? I can adjust that longer blade to ensure it opens with each pulse. Let me know your thoughts.

Mark

Yes, it does.

Also, one thing to add to my message above: if I completely block the end of stroke switch, the bell seems to fire and release correctly. But only adjusting the blade on the end of stroke switch (And not blocking it), to ensure that it opens fully, still results in the bell sticking on. To me that sounds like there’s power going through that closed end of stroke switch (and also the K relay switch (?) when there shouldn’t be.

.

Edit: You May have found it Howard! Stand by...

That fixed it Howard. Was just a switch in K that needed a good filing.

Thank you!