I don't think you're doing anything wrong other than not hitting the machine hard enough, and by hard enough, I mean as if you hated it. I just don't see any other way to transfer that much force thru the front of the machine to the apron, and then the ball.

Bangbacks and death saves are violent, which is why pretty much everyone forbids you to try it on their home machines.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who had success with this manuever that didn't require them to go seriously Bruce Lee on the machine in question.

You're probably just too nervous to shove the machine hard enough to be necessary to accomplish a bangback. Especially because its yours. My advice, just don't do it. Its a bad habit to have and will lead to many disapproving stares from people seeing you attempt it.

Pinball 101 stated that the position of the apron will affect the amount of force transfer. I think it was the gap between the apron and the metal clamps which hold up the front of the playfield. The tighter the gap the more transfer. Newton effect.

Maybe someone had all the apron gaps dialed out like Sealclubber noted. That would transfer the force more effectively.

On my TZ, you can bangback on the right easily, but on on the left. I put a small piece of wood between the gap in the clip and the wood, and its easy to do on both sides now. Don't have to hit it that hard at all, just has to be in the right spot at the right time. Timing is everything on bangbacks.

Hmmm....DrAzzy you are practicing these moves on your own machine right?

Death saves are one thing but bang backs on your own machine is crazy. Plus they can really do some damage to your wrist. Not worth in IMO.

I never try them, especially on freeplay. maybe some day....

I don't know, if you watch Bowen do it on his TZ tutorial it looks pretty rough and he even warns against practicing them because it "really hurts your wrist, don't do it kids". Sometimes in league play out in the wild I see some players performing bangbacks and it has never looked anything but fast and violent.

Hmmm am I wrong or should death saves only be done by pushing the right leg with your foot??? I have never done a death save using just my wrists, which is the sole reason why I have never been able to death save from the left outlane.. Saw Bowen Kerins do this but hell you must have to hit the machine hard...

Is a bang back when a players smacks the flipper button quickly and with much more force than a button tap?? I have seen some guys do this in my league games just before the ball is going to drain down the middle....it works sometimes but I don't understand the concept?? It's like by doing this they think the flipper is going to stretch that extra quarter inch to perform a save?!

Such abuse. I don't even let people nudge my machines. I realise this means I can never own a Wheel Of Fortune.

No. That is refered to as slap save or double slap save.

Change policy. Hard machines, where you must master extended means of ball control to save your ass, is the thrill.

Just take the tilt out and lift the game until the ball rolls up into the PF ! Bang backs Psst..

Jim

Haha that's ridiculous, that's one of the main ways to play pinball.

When you do a slap save you also usually nudge the machine a bit sideways, it then catches the very tip of one flipper, then the other flipper...thus saving it...works VERY well...

I don't ever do bangbacks or death saves so I can't help you there...

Death saves are only possible when the ball has rolled down the right outlane. As it drops of the right slope it should hit the left slope. At that exact moment it hits the left slope you would quickly push the machine up and to the right (whilst holding the left flipper up). The momentum should cause enough of a bounce to throw the ball back onto the right flipper. Some machines are easier than others. On my Batman Forever (and when the ball is moving with enough pace) death saves are actually quite easy.

I would say a Bangback is essentially the same, though done by banging the machine (as opposed to pushing). With enough force a bangback could save a drain down the left outlane. I have heard (but thankfully never seen or tried) kicking the left leg sharply is one way of banging the machine.

Slap saves work by pushing the machine in the same direction as the flipper you're hitting. So if you think the ball will miss your left flipper by a tiny amount, hit the left flipper hard enough to also jolt the machine slightly, and you might just reach that ball. Like Tom says, can be very effective when done with judicious timing.

Bangbacks/deathsaves are banned from tournament play, and I would absolutely never try either on someone elses home machine.

Just hump the machine like in the backglass image from Silverball Mania

+1

...or go ahead and take the glass off, and just grab any ball that drains.

Hahaa you guys are cracking me up!!!!

Nah, can't do it. Mostly my machines get the full treatment stripdown, clean and repair before I even play them. Then once they're all shiny and as perfect as they can be made, I worry about even playing them let alone abusing them.

Here are the last three I restored (Breakshot, was a total mess), and shopped (BoP - HUO but never properly cleaned), Scared Stiff (playfield repair & shopped):
http://www.system11.org/temp/Pinball/Breakshot/breakshot_pf_full.jpg
http://www.system11.org/temp/Pinball/BOP/bop_pf_full.jpg
http://www.system11.org/temp/Pinball/Scared%20Stiff/ss5.jpg

Then what tends to happen is I can't bear to play them and start to undo all that work even in any tiny way, and they end up being sold. I guess that's good for other people at least.

I used to feel this way too - but have since mellowed enough to enjoy playing, and even nudging my machines. I did buy 'em to play 'em afterall - and I don't really think the occasional nudge qualifies as 'abuse'. ...though I do still cringe sometimes hearing my pristine Paragon backglass rattle around.

I love a pretty game as much as the next guy, but they are meant to be played. It's like having some fancy restored car and letting it sit in your garage collecting dust. What's the point? Go drive the damn thing

I know the feeling putting so much work into a pin that you don't even want to play it though...I do get where your coming from...

Yea, I love my machine to be in impeccable shape but I do not hesitate to play it and that will include some nudging. Not out of hand nudging by any means but to me a little is just a part of playing pinball.

If you came over and played my pins and you did not nudge and bump my machines around , I would kick you out for not playing pinball correctly

Jim

Exactly, even my old boot mother in law nudges my machines, she might even smack it when she loses a ball haha....

I'm too cheap to buy a really pristine machine, and not talented or patient enough to restore one. Therefore all of my machines are players' pins and subject to some nudging now and then. The amount of nudging is proportional to how good of a game I'm having. If I'm closing in on a GC score you better believe I'll do anything within my power to keep the ball in play!

Plus now I gotta learn how to do death saves because I hear TFTC actually rewards you for doing this.

For death saves, they're much easier to do on newer Sterns. They don't require much force at all. Certainly not enough to damage the machine. If done correctly you can do them with only a single tilt warning.

The way I do them is when the ball just starts going down the outlane, I quickly shift to the left side of the machine for max leverage. I then pull the machine to the left (imagine flexing the legs toward you and to the left), when the ball hits the left wall I "pop" it to the right and upward.

The key to death saves is you're not "pushing" the machine. You really have to apply a quick, sharp force at the right moment. If you have to slide the machine more than an inch to do it, your timing is a bit off.