(Topic ID: 254126)

Help with Ali


By Spyderturbo007

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 88 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Rondogg
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Ali Stern Electronics, 1980

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There are 88 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 8 months ago

So I picked up an Ali last night that's in pretty good condition aside from a few small issues. The 2 x 2 display for credits and match are missing the top lines. Also, it looks like the tilt mech is completely missing. I'm not sure what I need to purchase to replace what's missing. The manual isn't the greatest.

I also need a lock down bar. The one that's on it honestly looks like it came from a newer Stern (it's black). My assumption is that the originals were chrome / polished.

Thanks!

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#2 8 months ago

Original metal was brushed stainless. Could have just been repainted. I don't think any other manufacturers (including modern stern) are compatible.

Missing segment is usually a bad resistor or transistor on the display board.

You'll probably need a picture of that tilt for the wiring, but standard tilt parts should work. http://pbresource.com/tilt.html#oldstern

#3 8 months ago

FYI, I found the Stern Parts catalog to be very helpful at identifying part numbers/info. The tilt assembly is listed on page 59.

http://howtopinball.com/files/pinball/paperwork/stern-classic/stern-parts-catalog-1979.pdf

#4 8 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

FYI, I found the Stern Parts catalog to be very helpful at identifying part numbers/info. The tilt assembly is listed on page 59.
http://howtopinball.com/files/pinball/paperwork/stern-classic/stern-parts-catalog-19.pdf

Link doesn't work

#6 8 months ago

Page 30 of that document has a good guide on fixing bad display segments

#7 8 months ago

Steve's site is great for Bally/Stern displays.

http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/bally_disp6r.htm

Looks like replacing Q13 will take care of your display issue.

#8 8 months ago

Thanks so much for everyone's help.

That parts manual is great. I found the part numbers for the tilt assembly, however they are out of stock at Marco. I'm going to give this a whirl.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/500-5023-00

My assumption is that random wire hanging there at the top left corner just gets attached to the hanger bracket?

Quoted from treborlicec:

Looks like replacing Q13 will take care of your display issue.

Now I just have to find someone that knows how to solder.

#9 8 months ago

See if this helps, from an early Bally, should be the same.

20170630_215043 (resized).jpg
#10 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

See if this helps, from an early Bally, should be the same.

Thanks for the picture, but I can't really see how the tilt mechanism is wired up. It doesn't look like there is anything attached to the hanger bracket?

#11 8 months ago

No, nothing to the hanger bracket, ground wire goes to the rod (was disconnected in my pic)
See if this helps?

20180222_203549 (resized).jpgpasted_image (resized).png
#12 8 months ago

Try Pinball Resource. That is common Bally tilt hardware.

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

No, nothing to the hanger bracket, ground wire goes to the rod (was disconnected in my pic)
See if this helps?

That helps a lot.

Looks like I need a ground wire. Does mine need that red thing with the long leads on it? If so what is it and where can I buy one?

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Does mine need that red thing with the long leads on it

That is a capacitor, yes you should put a new one on there, .05mf (or .047mf disc capacitor) 50V
Readily available any pin supply house or electronic store.

These from Ed would be fine:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-100V

#15 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

That is a capacitor, yes you should put a new one on there, .05mf (or .047mf disc capacitor) 50V
Readily available any pin supply house or electronic store.
These from Ed would be fine:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-100V

Also you don't technically /need/ it. It just makes the tilt mech a bit more sensitive

#16 8 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Also you don't technically /need/ it. It just makes the tilt mech a bit more sensitive

Awesome.

I guess they would sell the transistor I'd need to replace Q13? Any idea what part I would need for that?

Transistor (resized).JPG

Is this it?

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=KSP42

#17 8 months ago

Looks like it

#18 8 months ago

Anywhere else I can source this stuff? It looks like GPE is closed for the next week or so. Can't seem to find the stuff on Amazon.

I don't mind spending more on a big kit of assorted stuff if that might help me down the road.

#19 8 months ago

digikey.com
mouser electric

If your going to be putting in an order, might as well get fuses, 1N4001, 1N4004 diodes. Extra SCRs and Transistors. Make that shipping money stretch.

#20 8 months ago

I try to recommend Ed since he is a great Pinsider.

g-p-e

#21 8 months ago

You should probably just get every component related to that display segment, just in case.

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

I try to recommend Ed since he is a great Pinsider.
g-p-e

Ed told me his 9 to 5 job is getting in the way of the GPE side biz. I'd love to give him my business on a bunch of bally/stern/williams cap kits and HV kits, but he's been out of stock for quite a while.

#23 8 months ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

Ed told me his 9 to 5 job is getting in the way of the GPE side biz

Damn 'regular' jobs!

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

digikey.com
mouser electric
If your going to be putting in an order, might as well get fuses, 1N4001, 1N4004 diodes. Extra SCRs and Transistors. Make that shipping money stretch.

I purchased the diodes and fuses awhile back from Amazon. They came in one big pack, so I think I'm good there. What is a SCR?

Quoted from zacaj:

You should probably just get every component related to that display segment, just in case.

It looks like they are all 1/4w resistors. Would this be a good choice?

amazon.com link »

#25 8 months ago

SCRs are typically found on the early LDUs, on my Bally they were, 2N5060 or equal, also some 2N5401YBU used by the display driver.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/central-semiconductor-corp/2N5060-PBFREE/1514-2N5060PBFREE-ND/4806901

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/2N5401YBU/2N5401YBUOS-ND/975298

Aught to consider updating all the power caps while your ordering parts.

#26 8 months ago

I'm beginning to thing this is getting way over my head. SCRs, LDUs, Transistors, Resistors, Diodes, etc. I'm not an electronics guy, so perhaps it's just better for me to find someone to handle this issue.

I'll just try and find the thing for the tilt bob and stop there. It would take me 2 hours just to figure out what to buy and how many of each. Even if I got that far, I'd just sit there and stare at the parts wondering what to do with them or where they even go.

I appreciate the help, but I don't have 12h to learn how to rebuild a display drive board.

#28 8 months ago

Yes, that would work.
If that is all your going to order, just PM me, I'll drop you a few in the mail. Pretty sure I have a few dozen somewhere.

#29 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Yes, that would work.
If that is all your going to order, just PM me, I'll drop you a few in the mail. Pretty sure I have a few dozen somewhere.

I was going to order that and one of the transistors for the display board. I have a buddy that can probably solder it for me. I'm more than happy to pay for them.

#30 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm beginning to thing this is getting way over my head. SCRs, LDUs, Transistors, Resistors, Diodes, etc. I'm not an electronics guy, so perhaps it's just better for me to find someone to handle this issue.
I'll just try and find the thing for the tilt bob and stop there. It would take me 2 hours just to figure out what to buy and how many of each. Even if I got that far, I'd just sit there and stare at the parts wondering what to do with them or where they even go.
I appreciate the help, but I don't have 12h to learn how to rebuild a display drive board.

Just buy all brand new boards, then you have nothing to worry about lol.

#31 8 months ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Just buy all brand new boards, then you have nothing to worry about

^ or that!

#32 8 months ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Just buy all brand new boards, then you have nothing to worry about lol.

For a single line out on a display! I knew you were nuts when you shoved a powerball in an EM, but I didn't know you were that crazy.

#33 8 months ago

It's a very nice looking game. I'd check with turtle as he may be able to help you.

#34 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

It looks like they are all 1/4w resistors. Would this be a good choice?

They all are, yes. However, a few were underspecced, and it's recomended these days to use 1/2w for them. The ones for this segment aren't the ones that you want 1/2w for though, so your 1/4 will probably be fine. I tend to always replace stuff with 1/2w when possible since it's just higher specced. If you're ordering parts from digikey/etc anyway might as well buy some 1/2w for ones that you may be replacing.

Other parts that are just generally good to have on hand for bally/sterns:
2N5060 and MCR106 MCRs for the lamp board tend to go bad
2N5401 and MPS-A42 for the display transistors
TIP102 transistors for the driver board

#35 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm beginning to thing this is getting way over my head. SCRs, LDUs, Transistors, Resistors, Diodes, etc. I'm not an electronics guy, so perhaps it's just better for me to find someone to handle this issue.
I'll just try and find the thing for the tilt bob and stop there. It would take me 2 hours just to figure out what to buy and how many of each. Even if I got that far, I'd just sit there and stare at the parts wondering what to do with them or where they even go.
I appreciate the help, but I don't have 12h to learn how to rebuild a display drive board.

I'm in York if you want a hand. I have a capacitor for the tilt if you need. I also do board repair. Let me know.

Dave

#36 8 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I'm in York if you want a hand. I have a capacitor for the tilt if you need. I also do board repair. Let me know.
Dave

Thanks so much for the offer Dave. I'm flushing out a few other issues and then I'll definitely take you up on your offer.

What's the best way to diagnose a lamp socket? I'm assuming I can test for voltage coming into the socket? I've replaced the bulb and nothing. I also have a few that are really dim regardless of what bulb I insert.

Does each lamp have its own transistor on the driver board?

Also, is there anything special I'd need to know if I decided to put LEDs in this thing? I put one in and it barely lit up and was strobing. I stuck one in the back box GI and it looked just fine.

#37 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Thanks so much for the offer Dave. I'm flushing out a few other issues and then I'll definitely take you up on your offer.
What's the best way to diagnose a lamp socket? I'm assuming I can test for voltage coming into the socket? I've replaced the bulb and nothing. I also have a few that are really dim regardless of what bulb I insert.
Does each lamp have its own transistor on the driver board?
Also, is there anything special I'd need to know if I decided to put LEDs in this thing? I put one in and it barely lit up and was strobing. I stuck one in the back box GI and it looked just fine.

Each lamp has its own SCR on the lamp board. There should be 5VDC on the common wire running between all the lamp sockets. If a new lamp won't light, and there's voltage on the common wire, try using alligator clips to connect the lug of the socket to another working one. If it lights, then there's an issue with the lamp board or connectors. If it still doesn't light, replace the lamp socket.

LEDs can't be used in bally/stern without a special lamp board or adapters due to the way SCRs work. Usually not worth it. LEDs are fine for the GI though.

#38 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Thanks so much for the offer Dave. I'm flushing out a few other issues and then I'll definitely take you up on your offer.
What's the best way to diagnose a lamp socket? I'm assuming I can test for voltage coming into the socket? I've replaced the bulb and nothing. I also have a few that are really dim regardless of what bulb I insert.
Does each lamp have its own transistor on the driver board?
Also, is there anything special I'd need to know if I decided to put LEDs in this thing? I put one in and it barely lit up and was strobing. I stuck one in the back box GI and it looked just fine.

Buy this. And if/when you sell the game, remove it and install it in your next Bally game.

http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=44&controller=product&id_lang=1

#39 8 months ago

Also, many times SCRs can test good, but they are actually bad. Not quite a transistor. Also, sometimes they are weak...meaning they don't conduct fully and the bulb looks dim. You can clean the bulb sockets many ways. Bally lamp sockets are notorious for being bad after many years. Not sure about the Stern quality.

PM if you want local help.

Thanks

#40 8 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Each lamp has its own SCR on the lamp board. There should be 5VDC on the common wire running between all the lamp sockets. If a new lamp won't light, and there's voltage on the common wire, try using alligator clips to connect the lug of the socket to another working one. If it lights, then there's an issue with the lamp board or connectors. If it still doesn't light, replace the lamp socket.
LEDs can't be used in bally/stern without a special lamp board or adapters due to the way SCRs work. Usually not worth it. LEDs are fine for the GI though.

Do you mean just put alligator clips where I have the red line?

Lamp Socket (resized).JPG

#42 8 months ago

They all work when jumpered to another socket like you instructed.

Board work?

#43 8 months ago

Is this switch stack wrong? The roll over, even after cleaning, is hard to trip.

Looks like the two large contact points should touch when the switch is closed.

2D755FED-4A61-423F-A1C4-BA3D4D4246EC (resized).jpeg

#44 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

They all work when jumpered to another socket like you instructed.
Board work?

Either a bad scr, bad solder joint on the connector, or bad connector

#45 8 months ago

Which connector? The one that attaches to the board?

I’m just not sure where to go next.

#46 8 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Is this switch stack wrong? The roll over, even after cleaning, is hard to trip.
Looks like the two large contact points should touch when the switch is closed.
[quoted image]

Looks like the bigger blade is backwards? What is the switch for? Take it apart and flip the bigger blade around. Use a couple of pliars and a small screwdriver to pry it apart.

#48 8 months ago

Is it normal for my Stern machine to have a Bally branded lamp driver board?

6040CED1-ED20-407A-9513-C58BCF003E42.jpeg
#49 8 months ago

Someone put a Bally lamp driver in there. They are interchangeable.

#50 8 months ago

I reseated the cables on the lamp driver board and now some that didn’t work before are working and some that worked before aren’t working. Hummmm.

Connectors or solder joints on the header pins would be the next place to go I guess?

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