Tucson, AZ
Yep. Pins 2-9 on u9 test good.
(Topic ID: 197276)
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F-14 Tomcat
Williams, 1987
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Sorry to bother you GRUMPY
Have you had a chance to trace through my next steps?
I appreciate the help.
-J
Ok, check U-2 pins 5-12.
Sound 0 pins 5-12 H/L pulses.
Sound 1 pins 5-12 H/L pulses.
Sound 2 pins 5,6,7,9,10 High pins 8,11,12 Low.
Sound 3 pins 5,6,7,9,10 High pins 8,11,12 Low.
Sound 4 pins 5,6,8,9,11,12 Low pins 7,10 High.
Sound 5 pins 5-12 H/L pulses.
Sound 6 pins 5,6,8,9,10 High pins 7,11,12 Low.
Sound 7 pins 5,6,8,9,10 High pins 7,11,12 Low.
Quoted from miatawnt2b:OK, so basically no pulses at all, all pins 1-12 solid 1.7v on all tests.
Check all pins on U-9 for correct operation. Most of the time if all the outputs are dead the CPU would not boot and give code for U-9.
You can cut a pin on U-2 and separate it from the chip, then retest the corresponding pin on U-9. This can tell you if U-2 is pulling down U-9. If it's not then you can close the gap on the pin that was cut with a dot of solder and replace U-9.
Not sure what you mean by test all of u9. We tested pins 2-9 ok already at u9. What am I looking for?
Thanks grumpy.
-J
U-9 is a Pia chip, check with your logic probe.
Pin 1 Low
Pins 2 thru 9 were tested good.
Pins 10 thru 17 were tested bad.
Pin 18 High.
Pin 19 High.
Pin 20 High.
Pin 21 thru 33 H/L pulses.
Pin 34 High.
Pin 35 thru 38 H/L pulses.
Pin 39 High.
Pin 40 High.
OK Grumpy, here is what I have...
wanted to thank you again for the guidance. I am not familiar with this sort of troubleshooting with a scope, Never had to get this deep.
Pin 1 Low - yep
Pin 18 High - 4.95v
Pin 19 High - nope 0v (interestingly enough the same is said for u10)
Pin 20 High - 4.95v
Pin 21 thru 33 H/L pulses - OK here is where it gets interesting. I see pulses, but there is some noise also. They also aren't the same voltage nor frequency.
21 - about 110 kHz my scope wont trigger on it until about 3.6v and the pulse is 4v max.
22 - very nice 61Hz 4v pulses
23 - 30Hz 4v pulses, but not continuous looks like 2-3 pulses and a pause then 2-3 and a pause
24 - 15Hz, but it's really garbage signal
25 - 1000kHz 5v
26 - Pretty junky signal here. it looks like 4v pulses Picture coming of 26-33
27 - same
28 - same
29 - same
30 - same
31 - same
32 - same
33 - same
Pin 34 High - yes
Pin 35 thru 38 H/L pulses
35 - 4v 250kHz
36 - 4v 500kHz
37 - solid 5v
38 - solid 5v
Pin 39 High. - yes
Pin 40 High. - yes
Here's another thing I noticed. U24 is awfully warm to the touch. I mean, not burning hot, but noticeably warm.
From the schematic I have it looks like 37/38 should be shorted. It also looks like these connect to pin4 of U24. (page 57 of the manual)
I also see this connection goes to srb-7.
I am assuming this is pin7 of the srb directly below U24. Not sure how to test this.
I have continuity between U24 pin 4 and U9 37-38. good. Should I cut pin4 of U24 and see if the IRQ is hi at U9 still?
I don't have a 6802, I'll have to order one which is fine. U24 is socketed, so it should be easy for me to pull pin 4 from the circuit and see if the processor is holding hi. I'll probably order some more 6821's at the same time, and a 10 pin resistor network. 
You don't have another Cpu to pull out and try? If you are careful you maybe able to bend pin outward and test.
Quoted from miatawnt2b:I guess I could swap U15, think that's safe?
If U-24 is bad and you swap with U-15, then the board wont boot.
Quoted from miatawnt2b:So is pin4 of the CPU supposed to pull the 5v from the resistor network low?
Yes, In my scope pic (maybe hard to see) there are 5 volt to zero volt pulses.
Bending pin 4 out of the socket wasn't the best testing idea. With out the pull up resistor connected it should have read a low. Your scope is set to a very low voltage which may show the low as noise. I think the best test is trying a different CPU chip now.
1 week later
I have not forgot about this just been real busy, also did some sound upgrades to my Pinbot. I replaced all 3 speakers with something a bit better. Then I recapped the sound board as there was a pronounced hum in the backbox speakers. I also separated the the backbox and cabinet speakers from the same connector and added a second connector to the sound board so now I am using both amps on the board. When I went to test it out I had no speech sound from the CPU. It seems very similar to your problem. Reseated the Roms and U-24 which didn't seem to help, hit the sound switch on the CPU which reset all the sounds but #5. Crazy... 
Had the sounds cycling thru while testing pins on U-9 trying to find something wrong and after @ 5 minutes, sound #5 started working again. I can't explain why either. Sound problems just suck.
Do you have another system 11-game you can test the MPU board in? Really need to prove or disprove the MPU as a source of the problem
Bad socket at U-26, I could put pressure on the chip and restart the game while holding it and the sounds would play just fine.
Quoted from miatawnt2b:New 6802 in U24 didn't fix it.
You may want to think about changing a socket or two. This bad socket caused some or all cpu board sounds to stop playing in sound test and game play. When I looked at the socket I could not see cracked solder joints or any other damage at all so I was hesitant to replace it. Unless it acts up again I am calling it fixed. Using both audio amps now sounds much better and gives me a volume control for each set of speakers. I also added a low pass and a high pass filter for each set of speakers. I may do this on my F-14 next.
Thanks guys. I haven't forgotten about it either, but I have been so busy with work I haven't had time to look at it. I do have some 40 pin sockets and ordered some pia's and a resistor block. Going to shotgun the whole thing. I wish I had another 11 mpu to try. I don't even know anyone well enough in the area to ask.
-j
3 weeks later
OK, back at it guys. Replaced U9, U10, U24 (and its factory socket) as well as SR8.
No sounds @ 0,1,5.
that's a change. Frustrating, but a change nonetheless.
1 week later
GRUMPY
Do you have any other ideas? I am about to shotgun order every cap and ic on the top left of this board. everything north and west of U25 including U11&12.
It's probably going to cost me 35$ (and a lot of time)
Anyone have any idea why pin9 of my CVSD would be solid 5v? (as is pin 39 of u9 obviously) Additionally the IRQ line on U9 is solid 5v. I have replaced U9 and it's socket.
GRUMPY I traced out all rom sockets to ensure they were good continuity between the actual pins going into the ROM's. U26, U27, U21, U22 all test good.
No, it boots. No change. Just no voices 0,1,5. I was just poking around with the scope last night, and realized the clk on the cvsd is stuck high as is the irq.(which we already knew)
Just replaced U2. Same thing. No voices 0,1,5. Everything else working fine. Here's a brief overview of what has been replaced.
Newly flashed ROM's
Q1
U2
U4
U5
U9
U10
U24
U32
U34
U41
U42
SR8
All capacitors on MPU except ones labeled 'B'
I purchased several other IC's on the last go-around. So in the box of parts waiting for install if needed. U1, U3, U6, U7, U8, U11, U12, U13, U14, U23, U25
I was probing around today and i found my -12v rail is more like -14.8v. would this cause issues? I wouldn't think so, but it is old electronics.
I'm also pretty sure I found clock and irq with my scope. I can't seem to get the scope reliably set up though to see it. Seems harder to dial in than the analog one's I used in school.
-J
Quoted from miatawnt2b:i found my -12v rail is more like -14.8v
This is fine, most of the time the +12 drops down below 10.5 volts and then the problems start.
Here's an odd question. Any chance sound checks on the f14 don't have sounds 0,1,5? I realized while listening to this thing in attract mode that it appeared all the sounds i remember we're there.
From a different thread:
The sound test plays sounds/speech/music for #s 0-7 (there is no 8 or 9) then 10-17.
You can go through the sound test one at a time by (in attract mode): pushing manual down, pushing advance, pushing manual up (to start auto display test), pushing advance then QUICKLY push manual down. This will repeat each sound, and you can push advance to go to the next sound. You should be able to count and see which ones are missing.
0. Low tone
1. High tone
2. I'm locked on speech
3. Nice shot ramrod speech
4. Hahaha speech
5. Falling tone
6. Explosion sound
7. Explosion 2 sound
10. Theme song
11. Victory march song
12. Drain song
13. Theme song into rocking song
14. Multiball intro song
15. Flyby sound
16. Flash sound
17. Drum roll/gun fire
And yes, those are not official names but that's what they sound like to me.
Thank you gutz. Very interesting that the only thing I'm missing now are tones. Wonder if this part isn't a sound board failure at this point...
hummmm...
I'm pretty sure I can hear very faintly sound 5. Sound test on 5 I can hear a very low volume high to low sound, sounds like a bomb dropping in an early 80's game. Go figure. Wondering if I have a mixer issue on the sound board. Not sure where to look as there isn't a lot of good info on the sys11 sound board.
Word of caution, the manual shows a sound board from Pinbot. F-14 could have one of two different boards and neither are in the manual. Look at a later manual to find your board diagram. We could follow along if you let us know what board number yours is.
The sound board is a D11581. I have a schematic for it. If you have any tips on how to troubleshoot it I would appreciate. Or if anyone has a spare sound board they can loan me to test.
-J
Quoted from miatawnt2b:Or if anyone has a spare sound board they can loan me to test.
I had one but sold it recently, sorry.
Quoted from miatawnt2b:The sound board is a D11581. I have a schematic for it. If you have any tips on how to troubleshoot it I would appreciate. Or if anyone has a spare sound board they can loan me to test.
-J
I didn't read the whole thread, so not sure if this was mentioned besides what Grumpy said above, but you might indeed have the incorrect revision of the D11581. I currently have the incorrect one in my Cyclone and am missing a few sounds, also the volume briefly gets lower when the ball rolls over some of the switches. Little bit of info here, but doesn't say which one your machine requires...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11-soundboard-roulette#post-3978306
Notice in the pics that R18-20 and some other stuff is populated in one and not the other.
I think im getting closer.
GRUMPY can you please check pin 15 of U42 with your scope during the sound tests and let me know what you see?
Quoted from miatawnt2b:I think im getting closer.
grumpy can you please check pin 15 of U42 with your scope during the sound tests and let me know what you see?
I don't have anything on pin 15.
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