(Topic ID: 213843)

Help this noob! Kings of Steel bottom flippers don't work tilt stay on

By gtopete

6 years ago


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  • 31 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by chas10e
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#1 6 years ago

Hi All,
I'm new to the world of pinball. I've tried to figure this out myself but I am not having any luck.

The game starts up wonderfully. All the lights flash and the dings ding.
I hit start and the ball pops into the chute but when I press the flipper buttons only the little flipper on the upper left flips.
I've tested the fuses and they seem good.
I opened the door and the pendulum isn't touching the edge and I see that there might also be a tilt on the door lid which seems ok as well.

Where should I troubleshoot next?
Thanks in advance!

-Pete

#2 6 years ago

check/clean the EOS ( End of Stroke) on the lower flippers. I had manually opened one of mine and only the top flipper worked as you described.

above the tilt bob is a rail that is supposed to have a 7/8" ball in it when front of machine is picked up that ball will roll back and close a tilt switchalso , the switch leaf at the end of that rail might be the culprit (mine is moved out of the way so ball will never touch it)

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#3 6 years ago

Thanks so much for your response and help!

I don't see a metal ball in the track.

I'm trying to figure out the EOS now.

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#4 6 years ago

Post a couple of pics of the flipper mechanisms under the playfield, especially around the end of stroke switches.

As far as the tilt problem, look on the back of the coin door for a similar switch to the one i circled in this pic you posted (also look under the playfield for one too, some games will have one there as well)...those are 'slam tilt' switches, and if any are stuck closed (or if the wiring to those switches got mashed together) one of them could be the source of the tilt problem. Good luck! You'll get this sorted out soon enough, you're in good hands here at Pinside

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#5 6 years ago

Glad that the welcome wagon is here!

Here are a couple of pics. Everything seems in order to me.

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#6 6 years ago

Did you check the fuses with a multimeter?

If not, i would recommend doing so. And if you have a meter, the next thing I'd do is check voltages at the test points on the power supply board. If everything looks good there, I'd check for voltage at the flipper coils.

If you don't have a meter, i highly recommend getting one. Even a $10-20 meter will suffice. Or if you don't know how to do the tests, just ask for help here. Otherwise, report back the voltages and we'll take it from there!

#7 6 years ago

On your EOS switches, tighten the screws ( I see a couple of them loose) and clean the contacts ( a plain piece of paper pulled through while holding the contacts together should do it)

DO NOT use a file

on the picture of mine, the upper flipper works from that 2'nd set of open contacts. maybe you have 2 sets of contacts on your left flipper button ?

I agree with frunch a multimeter is a must have item and not that expensive.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Did you check the fuses with a multimeter?

This is the first thing you should do and pull the fuses out,they might look good to the naked eye but in many cases they are not.

#9 6 years ago

All the fuses passed the continuty test on the multimeter.

I also noticed that while the right flipper is not responsive at all, the left flipper does rotate when the button is depressed. It creates a spark and the flipper moves ever so slightly.

Pics of the left flipper "on" and "off"

Also, tightened the screws and paper swipe comes out clean.

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#10 6 years ago

Check for DC voltage at the flipper coils. Black probe on ground (there may be a silver ground braid in the cabinet, which can be used), red probe on each lug of the coil--test 1 lug at a time.

#11 6 years ago

The solenoid looks like it is making a full stroke. are you saying the flipper bat only slightly moves ?

#12 6 years ago

if its tilted flippers wont work , check for small capacitor , not diode , on the tily switch ad cut one end of it off, i have had a lot of bally games with a stuck tilt.

#13 6 years ago

Again, thanks for all your help.

As far as the left flipper goes, I tightened the hex screws and it started working again. After mashing the button a bunch of times the flipper became loose.
Seems like this flipper has a mechanical issue and not an electrical one.

The right flipper is unresponsive. I haven't used a multimeter since I was a kid, so I only remembered how to check for continuity. Let me figure that out and I'll report back soon.

#14 6 years ago

yeah I am having some trouble with my linear flippers & I think it is the 5/16" bushing causing it to hang.

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4054

3 weeks later
#15 5 years ago

Life has been busy but I made some time this morning.
I figured out how to get the multimeter to buzz when i had a current.
Touched all the fuses and eveything worked.
Touched the 3 little ends where the wires attach to the flipper assembly and they buzzed on both sides.
Left flipper button got the buzz but what didn't buzz is the right flipper button.
I see that the flipper button wires go into the rope of other wires and that's where I'm stuck.
Any ideas?

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from gtopete:

Life has been busy but I made some time this morning.
I figured out how to get the multimeter to buzz when i had a current.
Touched all the fuses and eveything worked.
Touched the 3 little ends where the wires attach to the flipper assembly and they buzzed on both sides.
Left flipper button got the buzz but what didn't buzz is the right flipper button.
I see that the flipper button wires go into the rope of other wires and that's where I'm stuck.
Any ideas?

With the meter in the ohm scale setting you're checking "continuity" to see if there is an electrical connection from one side of the fuse to the other. use the same setting to check contacts on the flipper switch to see if they closing when you press the flipper button.

I suspect you didn't remove the fuses from the fuse holder so there is a chance of a false reading (also do it with the machine off one of them babies can hurt quite a bit @230V DC :O )

The right flipper contacts you should get a tone right there no matter where the wires go and could be dirty contacts or gapped to wide. (I knew I forgot to get something my last order > )

with the meter check the EOS switches as well on the flippers

#17 5 years ago

I'm not really sure I understand what you mean. I'm also probably not communicating properly.

I did remove and test all fuses previously. I also tested them installed and they all buzzed (some buzzed louder than others)

It doesn't matter where I touch the right flipper with the multimeter. I tried all the way down to where the wire meets the solder. Nothing. Dead.
(The left flipper does set off the multimeter so I know that I am at least doing that correctly)

I am attaching pics of the unresponsive flipper button and the 3 prongs under each flipper. All 6 prongs (3 per flipper) passed the buzz test.

As far as the TILT. It seems that the game is just flashing TILT. When I touch the pendulum to the metal ring then it really TILTS and freezes.

Maybe one day I'll actually get to play this game. lol

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#18 5 years ago

It looks like the top of one of the switch blades/leaves for the flipper switch broke off! The round contact you can see in the photo should be across from another contact on the opposite blade/leaf. Compare the appearance of that flipper switch with the other flipper switch, i think you'll see what I'm talking about. Might be a simple matter of replacing the flipper switch!

#19 5 years ago

The right side looks like the left side. Both have a contact exposed to the inside. While this may be an additional problem it still doesn't help my original issue which is that power is not getting there at all. When I touch the left side flipper switch (at the base where the wire meets the solder) with the multimeter it buzzes. If I "accidentally" touch both wires with the multimeter it actually triggers the button.

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#20 5 years ago

Ah, i gotcha. Perspective of the pic threw me off.

#21 5 years ago

it kinda looks like a wide gap , also touch the contact of one blade and where it soldered, then the other blade just to rule out if a blade is bad or whatever.

perhaps a wafer between the outer blade with the contact & the blade with the solder lug

/me crosses fingers

for the Tilt: In normal operation you can tilt the machine in attract mode lighting the "tilt" on the glass but it should go out when you start a new game

mine kinda seems to strobe slightly in attract mode with other lights flashing but is more solid when tilting in gameplay

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#22 5 years ago

I can touch there all around even swap the red and black and absolutely nothing.

#23 5 years ago

Have you tried swapping the flipper cabinet switches?

Also, when you push the flipper button, do the contacts on the inner side of the switch leaves make good contact with each other?

#24 5 years ago

extra wafer

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#25 5 years ago

Thanks for the diagram. It is helpful to know the proper names. There is no juice coming out of these wires at all (where the lug meets the orange and red wires) so unless I there is something I am failing to understand, replacing the button assembly won't help. Assuming that the issue has nothing to do with the button, where can I troubleshoot next?

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#26 5 years ago

you can short those two wires circled in green togeather and it will actuate the flipper for the right side?

or was it just the left side you could do this?

Quoted from gtopete:

The right side looks like the left side. Both have a contact exposed to the inside. While this may be an additional problem it still doesn't help my original issue which is that power is not getting there at all. When I touch the left side flipper switch (at the base where the wire meets the solder) with the multimeter it buzzes. If I "accidentally" touch both wires with the multimeter it actually triggers the button.

if you can short the right side together & actuate the flipper I think the problem is how the "switch stack" is assembled, remover the extra wafer I pointed out.

if not we will hunt some more (well in the mean time I'll look where those wires go into the head) you may have a bad "trifericon" connector in there or something

#27 5 years ago

Ok then, let's go back a few steps. Rereading the thread, the only times you've mentioned using the meter is for continuity testing (beep/buzz test for fuses and switches). I haven't seen any mention of DC voltage readings, only buzz tests. I would check for DC voltage at the red wire where it's soldered to the flipper button switch. It should have approx 43v DC. Just in case this is your first time testing for DC, here's how: set your multimeter to DC volts. Place the black probe against ground and hold it there (there should be a 1/2" wide metal ground braid stapled along the inside of the cabinet, that would be a fine place to place the black probe on), then touch the red probe to the solder lug on the switch that the red wire is soldered to. You should be getting 43v dc there (if I'm reading the schematic correctly).

Forgive me if you've already done that--i just didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread yet.

If you definitely have 43v on that red wire, and the flipper switch is definitely making contact when the flipper button is pushed, then there's a problem with the connection from the orange wire to ground, or the contacts on the flipper button switch are shot.

However, i think chas10e is onto something about the flipper button switch being gapped too wide (the contacts never touch when flipper button is pressed) or it may be a bad switch (dirty/pitted contacts). If you have the black and red probes on each of the lugs (red on one, black on the other) and turn on the continuity/beep test, it should beep whenever you push the flipper button. If it doesn't, the switch is gapped too far apart or is misaligned from the flipper button's actuator, or it's a bad switch, or a broken path to ground from the orange wire of the switch. (Again--granted that there's 43v on the red wire)

Sorry if i sound like a broken record. It's just that the flipper circuit is actually a fairly easy one to diagnose, and it could be something you've (or we've) overlooked. We will figure this out!

#28 5 years ago

I can not short out the right side. Only the left. (testing at the lug base)

Did the DC test and the left moved to 40 something (needle is somehow bent inside the multimeter lol)

DC test on the right got absolutely nothing. (testing at the lug base)

#29 5 years ago

the manual / schematic is here: http://www.ipdb.org/files/1382/Bally_1984_Kings_of_Steel_English_Manual_Schematics.pdf if you don't have a hard copy

scroll down you will see "wiring diagram cabinet" it shows the right flipper flipper switch at "A3J2-1"

page 10 on manual shows the board locations , "A3" is upper right board in the head "Voltage regulator Solenoid driver assembly" most refer to it as the SDB Solenoid driver board

page 25 shows the SDB, "J2" is the lower left hand side connector

right flipper it is on pin#1 ... it should be the same color on both ends of the wire (for a quick verification)

see if you have a voltage there

there is also a separate schematic for the Solenoid Driver Board, upper right on that page shows "J2-1" ; going through the relay above it, into "J1-9" . my machine has an orange wire from there to the right flipper coil

the board could have a cold solder joint in there or a bad connection somehow, wiggle stuff around , lightly tap on the relay

On my board there is a clear plastic cover that says "Caution high voltage" if yours is missing keep your finger out of there 'cause they ain't kidding (230-190V DC)

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#30 5 years ago

Thanks again for your time and help. That manual is great. Now I can study all the proper names for everything!
I went down the J2 row. The top one did nothing DC. The rest sent the needle flying.

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#31 5 years ago

how about the "J1" row ?

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