(Topic ID: 183470)

Help- swapped to external battery holder and game going nuts

By Djshakes

7 years ago


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  • 55 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Pin_Guy
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 years ago

    I noticed some corrosion on my Indiana Jones just below the battery holder. Been meaning to swap it out to external, figured now is the time and I could clean up the board. Snipped off battery holder. Started to clean up resistors but the top two were pretty crunchy. They broke. Not a big deal, I removed them and swapped them out after cleaning board with distilled vinegar. Plug machine in and it goes a little nuts in test mode. Pulled board back off and replaced other two resistors. Tested leads on both sides of resistors to u16 chip. Everything measuring as it should. I noticed on one side of the resistors they all seem to be touching but I think that is okay. They all connect to the same lead. See picks and video. Game just continually cycles through the test mode as if every switchs are firing.

    Video:

    #2 7 years ago

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    #3 7 years ago

    I would start by verifying continuity of the 4 connections highlighted in the picture below.

    U16 (resized).jpgU16 (resized).jpg

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    I would start by verifying continuity of the 4 connections highlighted in the picture below.

    Checked those. All good.

    #5 7 years ago

    The second thing I would do is clear the holes for the external battery connector and bring the wires to the top side of the board.

    #6 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    The second thing I would do is clear the holes for the external battery connector and bring the wires to the top side of the board.

    Okay, but not sure if that would impact way machine is acting, would it?

    #7 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    Okay, but not sure if that would impact way machine is acting, would it?

    Unlikely, but running wires under the board is not a best practice as you can end up with a shorted wire that isn't visible.

    Please verify continuity between these two points ...

    U15 (resized).jpgU15 (resized).jpg

    #8 7 years ago

    9.87k ohms between those points

    #9 7 years ago

    In my first picture, is it okay that some of the solder bled over to the other leads? They all appear to be connected. Seems like that is the case on other parts of the board.

    #10 7 years ago

    That's probably correct, I actually got a little disoriented between solder and component sides of the board, as I suspect your issue is going to be connection related. You were actually reading thru R38 (10K) with that measurement

    #11 7 years ago

    I think I wired the external battery holder correctly correctly.

    #12 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    I think I wired the external battery holder correctly correctly.

    You do.

    #13 7 years ago

    The U15, U16, U17 area is where your direct switch controls reside, this is why you typically see corrosion damage effect the diagnostics operations first, and why I'm having you evaluate continuity in this area of the board.

    #14 7 years ago

    Driving me nuts. I should have just left it. Fuck. I hope a chip didn't go bad. New boards expensive.

    #15 7 years ago

    There swapped to front.

    1489269317767-670487181 (resized).jpg1489269317767-670487181 (resized).jpg

    #16 7 years ago

    Here is a larger area of the unpopulated component side, this should come in handy in evaluating the connection points in this area.

    unpopulated (resized).jpgunpopulated (resized).jpg

    I'm going to be selling a new WPC89 MPU soon, but I don't think your issues justify a new board at this point.

    #17 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    In my first picture, is it okay that some of the solder bled over to the other leads? They all appear to be connected. Seems like that is the case on other parts of the board.

    Yes, these four resistors (R35-R38) are all tied to a common point (+5VDC)

    #18 7 years ago

    Seems like only place I don't have continuity is between lower middle battery hole and upper left when looking at front of board. There was corrosion on middle lower.

    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    Seems like only place I don't have continuity is between lower middle battery hole and upper left. There was corrosion on middle lower.

    This wont effect your diagnostic switches, but will cause your game loose its settings when you turn the machine off.

    #20 7 years ago

    I'll jump it.

    #21 7 years ago

    Actually...This connection doesn't matter since you have no battery holder. the only two points here that matter are your Bat+ (5V) and Bat- (Gnd) points where you are tying in your remote holder.

    #22 7 years ago

    Yeah, I was thinking same thing. They only touch each other, nothing else. I wonder if a board guy would take this in? My guess is chip. All continuity seems fine.

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    I wonder if a board guy would take this in?

    They would, the corrosion really doesn't look that bad but the areas you cant see seem to always bite you on the ass. You may want to get with Chris https://pinside.com/pinball/biz/directory/1033-chris-pinball-repair he comes highly recommended and will repair this type of damage.

    #24 7 years ago

    Just for kicks, could you double check those four resistors R35 to R38 (where the fresh flux stains are?) Component side looks like it is solder-starved, the other side looks like there is some potential solder bridging between two of those resistors. Could also be some burned traces. It definitely caught my eye.

    #25 7 years ago

    Good eye. Its difficult to tell on a populated board, but I believe the points you are looking at are your pullup resistors at the outputs of the LM339's.

    Pull Ups (resized).jpgPull Ups (resized).jpg

    #26 7 years ago

    I agree, some spots look solder starved, I added more but the measured correctly. I'm measuring up by the body of resistor past the solder points to be sure. All 0 ohms or 9.8k from other side.

    #27 7 years ago

    Would a chip go bad? I only changed four damn resistors.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    Would a chip go bad? I only changed four damn resistors.

    Anythings possible, but would be kind of far down on my list of things to check. You wouldn't happen to have a logic probe would you?

    #29 7 years ago

    Just for giggles, what happens when you disconnect J205?

    #30 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Anythings possible, but would be kind of far down on my list of things to check. You wouldn't happen to have a logic probe would you?

    I do, don't know two shits how to use it. It's at my buddies house and he is out of town. I left it there.

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Just for giggles, what happens when you disconnect J205?

    I'll try this when I get a free minute. Baby just woke up.

    #32 7 years ago

    Here is the functional diagram and theory of operation for the are of the board you were working on. I highlighted the 10K resistors in the simplified schematic so you see what point in the circuit you had been working on. The line I put the red X on doesn't exist, its an error in the drawing.

    Dedicated (resized).jpgDedicated (resized).jpg

    #33 7 years ago

    Since the dedicated switches are constantly active, you should be able to make measurements at point B with a voltmeter. These will be the 4 points I highlighted in post 3, U16 pins 1, 2, 13, and 14

    #34 7 years ago

    Why screw with batteries?
    NVRAM is the only way to go.

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Why screw with batteries?
    NVRAM is the only way to go.

    Solderong a battery pack is a lot less scary than changing a chip( on the games that are not socketed of course) for myself and others who dont have the skills

    #36 7 years ago

    Reflowed resistors and unplugged J205. Same shit.

    I also noticed, Start button won't light up.

    #37 7 years ago

    I'm about to reflow the game in the damn dumpster.

    #38 7 years ago

    I still think you've got acid on the board, perhaps way down under that chip? Take a hard look.

    John

    #39 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    I'm about to reflow the game in the damn dumpster.

    Could you post the location of said dumpster? Just kidding you will get this working, just step back and take a deep breath.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    I would start by verifying continuity of the 4 connections highlighted in the picture below.

    These traces are not good. They need to be properly sanded down to bare copper (you can't, any abrasion will destroy them, they are no longer viable) and re-tin and seal them.

    There's not much damage there, certainly fixable. But the way it sits now is not good. All the darker green areas of the masking are no longer viable, and need to be properly addressed. Running jumpers is an option, but all that dark area will spread if not COMPLETELY removed.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #41 7 years ago

    I'm starting to think that there may be a break in the run carrying the +5V pullup; please check the points listed in the picture.

    Missing Pullup (resized).jpgMissing Pullup (resized).jpg

    #42 7 years ago

    If the above checks out take a look at the +5V reference for the LM339 comparitors, if this dashed yellow line is broken (likely at R35) it will cause unpredictable behavior as there will be an open connection to the comparitors. All points circled in red should be connected to +5VDC. (U16 pins 4, 6, 8, and 10)

    5V Reference Voltage (resized).jpg5V Reference Voltage (resized).jpg

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    I also noticed, Start button won't light up.

    Light bulb is burned out

    #44 7 years ago
    Quoted from Borygard:

    These traces are not good. They need to be properly sanded down to bare copper (you can't, any abrasion will destroy them, they are no longer viable) and re-tin and seal them.

    Unfortunately this statement is completely true; the first four points I had you check are obviously corroded and if not properly addressed, the connections will break, it's just a matter of time.
    (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-swapped-to-external-battery-holder-and-game-going-nuts#post-3646101)

    #45 7 years ago

    Send the board to Dayhuff or Borygard to get taken care of. It will be about half the price of a clean working original WPC board. Don' t forget to ask for NVRAM to be installed as well.

    If you do any other soldering to the board, do not solder on the top side of the board as the heat with the corrosion will eat of the pads very quickly.

    #46 7 years ago

    I'll check all the when I get home tonight and report back. I really appreciate all the help.

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    I'm starting to think that there may be a break in the run carrying the +5V pullup; please check the points listed in the picture.

    I checked both of these. Both test Okay.

    #48 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    If the above checks out take a look at the +5V reference for the LM339 comparitors, if this dashed yellow line is broken (likely at R35) it will cause unpredictable behavior as there will be an open connection to the comparitors. All points circled in red should be connected to +5VDC. (U16 pins 4, 6, 8, and 10)

    I'm getting 5 at each resistor with dmm touching resistor wire. I'm only getting 2.2 at each point on the u16 chip.

    #49 7 years ago

    Made some jumpers, not pretty but works.

    1489376668509-1660915842 (resized).jpg1489376668509-1660915842 (resized).jpg

    #50 7 years ago

    Something I also noticed. When testing resistance from r27 to r35 there is continuity. However from r35 to u16 I don't have continuity. The lead you mentioned above with yellow dash where you had me test the points for 5v. Should I run a jumper from r35 to the fourth upper post on u16?

    There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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