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(Topic ID: 321481)

Help STTNG Ground Short Row 1

By Arcadegarage

1 year ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinMonk
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#1 1 year ago
OP
 
JMP

Arcadegarage

Pinside member

US Philadelphia, PA

11y 33,300 419 4

Hey Everyone,

Need your help please. My STTNG is having some sort of ground short problem in Row 1.

When the top interlock switch on the coin door is pressed in (door closed), all of the switches in the entire game close. Leave the coin door open and it’s fine.

Driver board is rebuilt and the CPU is a Rottendog with no battery damage. I installed Frank’s Battery Board. That doesn’t mean something couldn’t have gone wrong here. This happened after I soldered a lighted Hallmark shuttlecraft to the GI. No evidence that was the problem, nor are there any cold solder joints or loose wires there.

Removed connectors 133 and 138 on the Driver Board in the Backbox and restarted and it did not fix the problem.

I pulled, tested and cleaned the door switch. That did not make the fix.

Tested the diodes on the driver board and they either came up with a value of near 0 or 0.5.

It’s not the lamp matrix because the lights all work.

Pic below is not from my machine but is the same message on the DMD. It is for reference.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

2FD8828F-296B-4E06-9885-7F2B545ED311 (resized).jpeg2FD8828F-296B-4E06-9885-7F2B545ED311 (resized).jpeg

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#2 1 year ago
 
DGV

The_Pump_House

The Pump House

US Wood River, IL

3y 78,300 1,707 50 7

Do the other switches on the row work correctly with the coin door open?

Disconnect the playfield switch harnesses from the MPU. If the error goes away the problem is a short in your playfield. If it doesn’t you probably burned u20 on the MPU.

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#3 1 year ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,217 16

OP
Quoted from Arcadegarage:

Hey Everyone,
Need your help please. My STTNG is having some sort of ground short problem in Row 1.
When the top interlock switch on the coin door is pressed in (door closed), all of the switches in the entire game close. Leave the coin door open and it’s fine.
Driver board is rebuilt and the CPU is a Rottendog with no battery damage. I installed Frank’s Battery Board. That doesn’t mean something couldn’t have gone wrong here. This happened after I soldered a lighted Hallmark shuttlecraft to the GI. No evidence that was the problem, nor are there any cold solder joints or loose wires there.
Removed connectors 133 and 138 on the Driver Board in the Backbox and restarted and it did not fix the problem.
I pulled, tested and cleaned the door switch. That did not make the fix.
Tested the diodes on the driver board and they either came up with a value of near 0 or 0.5.
It’s not the lamp matrix because the lights all work.
Pic below is not from my machine but is the same message on the DMD. It is for reference.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
[quoted image]

Did you unsolder the shuttlecraft from the GI to put it back to the state before the error?

Check Fuse 114 OUTSIDE the holder (not in circuit). Is it ok?

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#4 1 year ago
 
???

pins4u

Pinside apprentice

BW Gaborone

3y 34,400 1,037

Did you perform the work with the game switched on?

As above, unplug the two connectors bottom right of the MPU - J206/207/208/209 - does the message go away?

YES: you have a wiring issue on the playfield

NO: U20 is likely toast - usually caused by shorting things on the playfield while working on the machine. This can fry in microseconds if you touch the wrong things.

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#5 1 year ago
 
DGV

The_Pump_House

The Pump House

US Wood River, IL

3y 78,300 1,707 50 7

Quoted from pins4u:

Did you perform the work with the game switched on?
As above, unplug the two connectors bottom right of the MPU - J206/207/208/209 - does the message go away?
YES: you have a wiring issue on the playfield
NO: U20 is likely toast - usually caused by shorting things on the playfield while working on the machine. This can fry in microseconds if you touch the wrong things.

Maybe he will get lucky and already have a socketed U20.

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#6 1 year ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,217 16

Quoted from The_Pump_House:

Maybe he will get lucky and already have a socketed U20.

He said it's a Rottendog board. U20 is already socketed on them.

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#7 1 year ago
OP
 
JMP

Arcadegarage

Pinside member

US Philadelphia, PA

11y 33,300 419 4

Ordered the U20 replacement since it’s socketed and an easy start. Will update next week.

Please keep the advice coming. Thanks.

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#8 1 year ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,217 16

OP
Quoted from Arcadegarage:

Ordered the U20 replacement since it’s socketed and an easy start. Will update next week.
Please keep the advice coming. Thanks.

Order a few. Always a good chip to have on hand.

1 week later
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#9 1 year ago
 
MRP

MikePags

Pinside member

US Broomall, PA

11y 25,900 57 3

Ok so I’m working in this game as well. U20 was replaced and nothing changed. We tried a second MPU board and nothing changed either.

Basically, the game boots fine as long as the coin door is open. If the door is closed then the issue occurs. This is caused specifically by the two black-yellow wires being connected inside the top interlock switch. As soon as the coin door is closed, every switch in the matrix appears to close and all flippers are locked on. Originally we thought it was just a row 1 issue, but it’s not. Also, the 12v LEDs on both the driver board and the small auxiliary driver board go out. Attached are pictures of the matrix when the coin door is both open and closed.

Lastly, at one point the game started smoking. I think from the upper left area of the backbox. We unplugged it right away and haven’t had that issue since.

876D1233-5014-439C-993D-06CEE636F61F (resized).jpeg876D1233-5014-439C-993D-06CEE636F61F (resized).jpeg9CA54FB1-5752-447A-BDAD-2E05C99F0532 (resized).jpeg9CA54FB1-5752-447A-BDAD-2E05C99F0532 (resized).jpegC60827F0-0563-4CDF-99EE-BCE84DFA1CCB (resized).jpegC60827F0-0563-4CDF-99EE-BCE84DFA1CCB (resized).jpeg
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#10 1 year ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,217 16

Quoted from MikePags:

Ok so I’m working in this game as well. U20 was replaced and nothing changed. We tried a second MPU board and nothing changed either.
Basically, the game boots fine as long as the coin door is open. If the door is closed then the issue occurs. This is caused specifically by the two black-yellow wires being connected inside the top interlock switch. As soon as the coin door is closed, every switch in the matrix appears to close and all flippers are locked on. Originally we thought it was just a row 1 issue, but it’s not. Also, the 12v LEDs on both the driver board and the small auxiliary driver board go out. Attached are pictures of the matrix when the coin door is both open and closed.
Lastly, at one point the game started smoking. I think from the upper left area of the backbox. We unplugged it right away and haven’t had that issue since.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Well, with the coin door open you have the coil power cut off. When you close the door, it energizes the coils, which makes sense that it's energizing all the switch matrix go solid if there's a short from the matrix to coils somewhere.

Did you undo the lighted hallmark shuttlecraft (i.e. remove it again) and check around the area to make sure some errant solder didn't fall and create this short?

Have you tried this with the playfield all the way up?

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#11 1 year ago
 
???

pins4u

Pinside apprentice

BW Gaborone

3y 34,400 1,037

Get rid of ALL the mods - colour DMD included!

Otherwise you are going to keep going around in circles.

Once you fix the problem you can re-connect the mods one by one.

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#12 1 year ago
OP
 
JMP

Arcadegarage

Pinside member

US Philadelphia, PA

11y 33,300 419 4

We desoldered the Hallmark DS9 Runabout Shuttle Mod from the GI lamp and now the game works fine. I did not hook it back up. Doesn’t make much sense to me.

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#13 1 year ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,217 16

OP
Quoted from Arcadegarage:

We desoldered the Hallmark DS9 Runabout Shuttle Mod from the GI lamp and now the game works fine. I did not hook it back up. Doesn’t make much sense to me.

Glad that was narrowed down to be the problem and you're back in business!

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