Help question: SBM displays not working


By E_N_3

7 months ago


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#1 7 months ago

I am bringing a SBM back from the dead; it was one I grabbed locally -- previous owner started fixing it, but decided to stop and let it go.
I pretty much have the game working 100%, however, its only fully working because I swapped in a complete set of Alltek boards. I don't want to leave the Alltek boards in, and would prefer to get the old boards working again.

With the old boards in, the none of the displays were working. When I swapped in the Alltek boards, the displays fully worked, so I figure it is now narrowed down to just being an issue on the board.

I am pretty good with fixing many things on my pinball machines, but I am still very (very) novice when it comes to anything board related. But I really want to improve my experience and skills on the board aspect, so I figured this would be a good opportunity.

Is there a section on the board that I should be replacing a set of common parts for this sort of issue? Can you guys direct me on what to test/change on the board to get the displays running on the old board?

Thanks a bunch,
--ed

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

that is an AWESOME guide -- thank you!

does somebody sell a kit of the parts needed to rebuild that section of the board ?

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

that is an AWESOME guide -- thank you!
does somebody sell a kit of the parts needed to rebuild that section of the board ?

http://nvram.weebly.com/repair--conversion-kits.html

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

that is an AWESOME guide -- thank you!
does somebody sell a kit of the parts needed to rebuild that section of the board ?

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ Sells several kits for this vintage of bally pins.

#6 7 months ago

Replace the fuse on your SDB

#7 7 months ago
Quoted from rdudding:

Replace the fuse on your SDB

Which fuse

#8 7 months ago
Quoted from rdudding:

Replace the fuse on your SDB

HOLY COW--that was it!
I must have missed that fuse originally!!! i grabbed a fuse out of another working Bally game and the displays worked perfect!!! thanks a million! Since I don't have any of those small fuses, I will find out what type of fuse it is, and grab some backups.

Now, my last "board problem".
When I got the game, the guy gave me an MPU that he said he picked up and it was "serviced". The game doesn't work with the old MPU in it, but when i try with the Altek MPU, the game is fine. The board looks like it is okay, and like somebody did some work on it, so I am unsure why it won't work. It does have "Dolly Parton" written on it, and I am trying to use it in a SBM....is it possible it is set up for DP and I need to do something for it to work in SBM?

any help is appreciated!!!!

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#9 7 months ago

bump for help with the MPU

#10 7 months ago

What happens when you power up the old MPU board, does the green LED flicker and flash (if yes how many times)?

Can you post a clear closeup picture of the chip at U8? It looks to be physically damaged in you picture.

The board appears to have the Silverball Mania program ROMs which is good, and not Dolly Partons (the picture is not clear enough to 100% confirm)
ROM chip at U1 should be marked "E-786-16 U1"
ROM chip at U2 should be marked "E-786-17 U2"
ROM chip at U6 should be marked "E-720-35 U6"

1 week later
#11 7 months ago

Sorry for the delay Quench, I had a cold, and just when I thought I was getting better, I got a stomach bug, and then my back started acting up--lol--hasn't been a good week.

Here are some close up pics of what you were asking about, and I added some others just in case.

Thanks a bunch!!!!
--ed

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#12 7 months ago

Hope you're feeling better
Pictures confirm your board has Silverball Mania ROMs and it is also jumpered correctly for them.

What happens when you power up this MPU board, does the green LED flicker and flash (if yes how many times)?

There's still some tracks with corrosion that need attention.

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Hope you're feeling better
Pictures confirm your board has Silverball Mania ROMs and it is also jumpered correctly for them.
What happens when you power up this MPU board, does the green LED flicker and flash (if yes how many times)?
There's still some tracks with corrosion that need attention.

When I power it up, it does one faint little flash, like it got some juice from the switching the game on, but then that is it....no more flashes....and I don't know if that first one really counts as a flash....lol.

It did have one time when I was messing with it that the led stayed on, and I pressed the little test button at top of board, and then it went away, and I couldn't get it to come back....don't know if it was just a random fluke that it happened the one time or not.

Thanks again for the help!

#14 7 months ago

Ok, so that LED flicker on power up is a good sign and means the board is beginning its power on self test, but failing at the first hurdle when it's testing the ROMs at U1, U2 and/or U6. It could be a connection issue with the sockets.

Remove each of these ROMs, take note of any corrosion/tarnishing in the sockets and ROM pins. Carefully plug the ROMs in and out a couple of times then finally make sure they're plugged in the correct way (not backwards) using your above pictures as reference.
Power up the board and let us know what happens.

#15 7 months ago

Ok, so, maybe progress?

U1, U2, and U6 all had a yellowish/brownish/blackish color on the ROM pins.

For U1 and U2, I carefully cleaned them up with a fiberglass eraser, but the ROM pins felt really weak, like a small sneeze could cause a pin to break loose.

When I got to U6, I took the ROM out, and two ROM pins stayed in their holes (as they were broken off). I carefully cleaned the rest of U6, and again, many seemed like they were ready to also break off. Pic below is of the ROM with the broken pins.

The ROM pins on other ROMS on the board had pins that were silver and strong.
Iseems like the U1, U2, and U6 were the only ones to have the ROM pin issue.
Is that normal? Maybe when the previous guy updated the board, he replaced the other ROMs and not these? Does that sound right?

Anyway, out of curiosity, I put everything back, less two broken ROM pins from U6. Turned power on and got a solid green (no blink).

Does this confirm that U1, U2, and U6 were the issues?

Would the broken pins, and the overall weak pins throughout U1, U2, and U6 coincide with the symptoms?

Should I replace all three, or just the broken one?

And finally, where is a good source for the needed ROMs?

Thanks!

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#16 7 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

When I got to U6, I took the ROM out, and two ROM pins stayed in their holes (as they were broken off).

Ouch!
You should order replacement ROMs. I'm not in the US so hopefully someone else can chime in on the best place for you to get them locally. Note, you'll probably have to modify jumper links on the board for the replacement ROMs to work.

In this moment of desperation though, you could carefully scrape away some of the plastic around the broken pins on the U6 ROM to expose them a bit so the broken legs can be carefully soldered back on. Are you up for the challenge?

Quoted from E_N_3:

I put everything back, less two broken ROM pins from U6. Turned power on and got a solid green (no blink).

That's expected. With the U6 ROM not functioning, the green LED will stay on.

#18 7 months ago

Is there options for buying that I don't need to modify anything?
The seller Cody gave link for has CPU ROM Set - 2732 EPROMS at U2 and U6

On eBay, a seller says
position u1 , u2 and u6 , to save you money u1 and u2 have been combined in one chip. All the sets i am selling for this era of bally are two chips. I will program the roms on your choice of 2532 or 2732 chips. Please make a note in your payment which type you need.
Eprom Jumpering Chart
Bally AS-2518-35 MPU Board ROM Chip Jumper Settings to run 2716 (2516), 2532 (9332), and 2732 EPROM chips on your Bally AS-2518-35 MPU board.
Many Bally AS-2518-35 ("-35") MPU boards came with 9332 PROM chips, or 2732 EPROM chips from the factory. 9332 chips can be replaced directly with 2532 EPROM chips, with no jumpering required.

Is there an option that works for how my board is set up (in pics)?

#20 7 months ago

does that mean that if i use 2532, i do NOT need to do any sort of board jumpers/mods. I'm not confident with boards yet, so I'm trying to avoid board work on my own if possible.

#21 7 months ago

that was my interpretation yes.

#22 7 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

I'm not confident with boards yet,

This is the simplest of tasks for a board. For jumpers you don't need, simply cut the wire out. The jumpers you do need are just bare wire you solder in two holes to join. No real components, just wire.

#23 7 months ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

This is the simplest of tasks for a board. For jumpers you don't need, simply cut the wire out. The jumpers you do need are just bare wire you solder in two holes to join. No real components, just wire.

I'm sure it is. I'm just nervous when it comes to anything relating, even remotely, to board work. I'm trying to get over this fear...lol. It looks like I WILL need to do jumpers (checked with a pinball rom seller to make sure).

Now, I just need to make sure I follow the correct part/version of the directions that CHEDDAR linked me to...lol.

#24 7 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

I'm just nervous when it comes to anything relating, even remotely, to board work. I'm trying to get over this fear...lol. It looks like I WILL need to do jumpers

If it will help, I can probably post pictures of an unmodified board and a modified board with notes. I'll need to know if you're purchasing 2716 or 2732 ROM replacements.

#25 7 months ago

The IC pins look so bad, I'm going to suggest you replace the sockets too (or send it to someone).

#26 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The IC pins look so bad, I'm going to suggest you replace the sockets too (or send it to someone).

When you say the IC chips, are you referring to u1, u2, and u6? If so, are you thinking I should replace the sockets because if the pins are that bad, they would have corroded the inside of the sockets too? Or do you think the socket corroded the pins?

And I guess if I'm going to be working on the board to do the jumpers and such, if you think it really needs it, I might as well go the extra step and try my hand at doing the sockets too.

#27 7 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

If it will help, I can probably post pictures of an unmodified board and a modified board with notes. I'll need to know if you're purchasing 2716 or 2732 ROM replacements.

Firstly, that sounds amazing...I would appreciate that greatly, thank you so very much.

With that said, I'm getting so confused with trying to understand all the numbers. There seems to be numbers for the original, which the rom seller says is 9316, but they are no longer available.
Then there appears to be different numbers for the replacement types, which is what I think you mentioned, the 2716 or 2732, but to be honest, I'm not sure what the difference is, or which is more ideal, etc.

Can somebody point in the direction for which to buy, and where I can grab the needed chips, and if I should be doing the sockets to, where I can grab those? I'm happy to buy whatever is needed....if somebody was to link me on what to buy, I'm happy to order whatever you guys think I need.

I'm sorry for being such a newb with this, asking all the questions, and for needing so much help. A lot of what scares me with the board stuff is my always getting confused and overwhelmed by the numbers and conversions to other parts...ugh....so sorry.

#28 7 months ago

Both the ROM seller Cody mentioned and the ebay seller you mentioned are selling 2732 replacements, so I'll provide jumper pictures for that to make it simple.
Charging my camera batteries now so pics will come later.

#29 7 months ago

okay, ordered up the CPU ROM Set - 2732 EPROMS at U2 and U6, AND got the two 24 pin sockets, so I can replace them while I am at it.

#30 7 months ago

Before and after photos attached of the jumper changes: Click the images to zoom in.
First picture shows wire links (circled) that need to be cut/removed.
Second picture shows wire links you then add.

I marked the mods separately for U6 and U1/U2 combo with the aim that you could do U6 only for test. But just noticed that modifying U6 alone will upset the ability to leave your original 9316A U1/U2 combo without an extra mod.
So just do all the mods and replace your three old 9316A ROMs for both new 2732 EPROMs that arrive. Remember to install the 2732 EPROMs with the notch facing left (shown in the second picture).

At some point you'll probably need to replace the U2 and U6 sockets as @vid1900 mentioned. However if your soldering skill are novice and you only have basic tools, it might be best if you send it out and get a pro to do it.

BY-35_Before.jpg
BY-35_After.jpg

#31 7 months ago

Quench....holy cow, that is awesome, thank you sooo much!
I am now actually excited to tackle this!

BTW...For the "link wire" that doesn't have an outer coating, what sort of wire should I be using there? Should I just cut the outer coating off of some old pinball wiring I have laying around? I think I heard a plain staple can be used...like out of a desk stapler....is that true?

#32 7 months ago

You could re-purpose some of the wire links if you unsolder the one side of the link out of the hole it needs to be disconnected from, then bend the link so the loose end goes to the new destination hole; most of them will reach. Hope this makes sense.

Otherwise you can use normal small wire, you don't need to remove the coating. Just strip the ends to solder.
The wire links I've used are just excess leads I've cut from components (diodes, etc).

Staples probably won't take solder very well.

#33 7 months ago

Awesome QUENCH...thanks for the follow up info. I can't wait for the parts to arrive, as I a now actually excited to try my hand at this now that I have a better understanding of what it is, exactly, that needs to be done.

2 weeks later
#34 6 months ago

So, new ROMs in, all of the board mods done.
Turned game on, red led on board stayed on, I hit the button on the board, and LED goes off. Now each time I turn the game on, I get 1 blink and that's it.

#35 6 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

I get 1 blink and that's it

Is this just a really quick flicker?
Or a flicker then 1 flash?

#36 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Is this just a really quick flicker?
Or a flicker then 1 flash?

I feel it is longer than a fast flicker, so I think it's a flash.

#37 6 months ago

Oh. I didn't have any "bare wire" when doing the mod, but I did have plenty of wire from old games that had the colored coating on it. I noticed other mods on the board had coated wire, so I figured it was okay to use for the mod I needed to do. Am I correct that the coated wire was/is okay to use, or am I jerk and had to use "bare wire"?

#38 6 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

Am I correct that the coated wire was/is okay to use, or am I jerk and had to use "bare wire"?

Any wire will be fine, insulated or bare. As long as it makes a solid solder connection you are good.

#39 6 months ago
Quoted from E_N_3:

I feel it is longer than a fast flicker, so I think it's a flash.

The LED should quickly flicker the very moment you power the machine on then the LED should stay off for about half a second.
It should then flash on for half a second, then off longer for about 1 second, then on for half a second, off for half a second, etc.
The diagnostic flashes you count are the ones where the LED is on for about half a second (not the first flicker).

Feel free to post pictures of your mods in case we can see something amiss.

#40 6 months ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

Any wire will be fine, insulated or bare. As long as it makes a solid solder connection you are good.

That's totally what I figured, but when I went back and was rereading everything, I kept reading "bare wire", and then I started seconded guessing myself, as I know I'm a total newb with anything board related.

#41 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

The LED should quickly flicker the very moment you power the machine on then the LED should stay off for about half a second.
It should then flash on for half a second, then off longer for about 1 second, then on for half a second, off for half a second, etc.
The diagnostic flashes you count are the ones where the LED is on for about half a second (not the first flicker).
Feel free to post pictures of your mods in case we can see something amiss.

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant, I felt it was the longer flash that I was counting as one flash.

And I took a pic of my board mod....and it probably sounds so dumb...but I'm actually feeling gun shy to show it...as if it's bad...im going to feel really like a jerk.

Btw...I though I had nice supplies, new thin solder pencil, new solder vacuum (electric with heated tip), and then I sit down to work on the board and the solder pencil is a piece of crap, I start using it and I'm noticing it's no longer hot, and then I realize the whole rod coming out of the handle was flopping around and broke after 30 seconds of use. I then tried using my solder vacuum, and the tip never got hot enough to melt any solder, and then the vacuum stopped working. I take credit for getting the cheap solder pencil, but that vacuum was actually a bit of money and one of my xmas gifts. Amazon tried giving me guff it was out of date for return and I'm like really? It's not something you open and use on Christmas morning....cut me some slack.....I had to deal with customer service forever, telling my story more than one to more than one person...lol...but they are at least "allowing" me to return it....lol.

I think next thing I should do is invest it some nice soldering stufff for the "smaller" type stuff.

I recently got myself the larger gun style with the trigger, the cleaning paste, the metal "fluffy" thing (technical term) you put the tip in to clean, and some some braided wire.

However, I thought that was a bit too crazy for using anywhere near a board.

So, for this job, since I was already knee deep in it when all my "new tools" decided to crap the bed, I made due with what I had. I used a really old and beat up solder pencil I had that has way too big of a tip, and the roll of braided wire I had to try and get the solder out of the holes.
Perhaps you know why I am nervous to show how it came out now....lol

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