Mr. & Mrs. Pac-Man
Bally, 1982I picked up an 82 Bally Mr and Mrs Pacman...The board has bad acid damage...I'm not scared of it, but I don't know the value(?) of a crusty capacitor...Can someone with experience point me to what I need? I have no schematic for this machine and the numbers aren't on the part or the board anymore for reference. I'm hoping one of you guys know right away when you see my pics what capacitor I need...Thanks....
The board needs a lot more attention than just that capacitor. I would send it off straight away to one of the excellent repairers here.
$50~80 spent now will save you a LOT of grief down the track.
That is a bog standard Bally -35 MPU and the board layout and schematic with a full parts list are in every Bally SS manual for your viewing pleasure.
Oh, FYI, it is "Alkaline damage" or just "battery damage" - there is no acid there at all.
When I see a board with that much alkaline damage (ie. wicked all the way around the board and made its way inward from many sides of the board), IMO you're better off looking for better candidate for repair. Or buy a board that someone's already fixed up for $100 or so. Or buy an Alltek.
Say you want to go the cheaper route.. even if you spend $30 on a better looking board on eBay that just has alkaline damage at the bottom of the board & send that board out for repair. The repair costs will be cheaper & the board will be more reliable in the future since less of the board got hit by alkaline damage to begin with. So $$-wise you're in the same boat, but it's a better choice for reliability.
Thanks everyone!! Thanks Kent for the cap. value!!
I'm going to repair it myself(or try). Basically just for some experience and the challenge of it. I have most everything that is heavily corroded. I'm replacing some of the sockets tonight. I gave it a quick bath in baking soda water, a little dremel ,wire brushing here and there. And some fiberglass brushing. Right now I'm doing a quicky to see if I can get the machine to fire up... I plan on going through all the boards later, caps, connectors, etc....
I'll post a few pics of my umm...hack job? as I go! 
I may replace it with a better board later, I'm just up for the challenge of making this one work....for now.
Thanks again!!
Quoted from Joker2415:A friend said..."you can't fix that", so now I have to just to prove a point!!! even if it does end up only temp to get the machine working...
Yeah plan on it being temporary, especially if you get it booting without fixing every bit of corrosion on the board (ie. resistors that have visible corrosion to their legs, traces that are discolored, etc). It'll keep attacking it over-time and the board will randomly fail in various ways as the copper gets eaten away or corrosion makes its way into the chips.
IMO you'll need to remove the bottom PIA socket (40-pin), 5101, 555, reset components, some resistors/capacitors on the right-hand side, all the headers, more resistors/caps on the left-hand side, momentary switch. All the traces that are discolored would need to be sanded/exposed with fiberglass pen -- neutralized & then sealed. It's both a time thing & also cost of components that make that board a not-so-great place to put your time. But, I get where you're coming from.. I've fixed up boards in similar condition *years ago* for the challenge and to save a few bucks..and it's a learning experience too.
Some advice -- if you don't replace any headers, at least replace J4. You'll want to make sure there's no conductivity from the 43v input to any of the other pins. Corrosion can cause shorts there and you don't want to plug that into your game and have 43v shorted anywhere. If nothing else at least check conductivity between the pins there before plugging in the board.
You may want to use a 50/50 vinegar and water mix to neutralize, technically more effective. Follow up with cleaning with distilled water and/or Isopropyl. Also seems general consensus is sealing the exposed copper is even more important than neutralizing, otherwise exposure to air will cause the corrosion to continue.
BTW.. Mr & Mrs Pacman is a great game 
One of my favorites & actually one of the first few Bally machines I had ever repaired. Should be fun getting it up and running. Good luck!!
I have fixed boards a lot worse than that one. Don't listen to those that say it can't or should be done. People have no Idea what others intentions are with a repair.
A lot of times, I repair boards to just have as test boards for diagnostic purposes. This board is perfect for a spare or test board.
Plus, Mr Ms Pac is the best Bally ever made. Oh and I have owned all the Ballys people go nuts for as well.
Carry on!
See this thread here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stripping-battery-corrosion-with-a-strong-acid
Quoted from snyper2099:I have fixed boards a lot worse than that one. Don't listen to those that say it can't or should be done. People have no Idea what others intentions are with a repair.
A lot of times, I repair boards to just have as test boards for diagnostic purposes. This board is perfect for a spare or test board. Carry on!
Yep, practically anything can be fixed if someone wants to put the time in. Long-term reliability will just depend on how thorough of a job was done with cleanup & sealing of the board.
Just making some suggestions without having known the original intentions or capabilities of the OP. Since he doesn't mind investing the time and is looking at it as a challenge / temp solution no harm in that
Quoted from Joker2415:I gave it a quick bath in baking soda water
That is alkaline damage from the batteries so you want to neutralize (as acebathound suggested) with an acid not another alkali.
More info on cleaning up battery damage.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage
thanks everyone!!
I'm learning a lot so far....I'm back to the rectifier(?) board (-54 board)...My Tp3 is at 22 vlts dc to 48vlts dc depending.... with every thing unplugged except the transformer...I found the schematic online and it says there should be 5 voltsdc there(the writing is a little smudged)? I've done everything I know how!! Both br1 and br2 were removed from the board and checked ok. so far I have had everything removed from the board!!! Cr5-Cr8 were removed and tested good,they are the only things on the board right now and still 21.5 volts dc...What am I doing wrong,missing, or what don't I know? All transformer voltages are good, within a volt or 2 of what they should be..
my next step is to check transformer wires to connectors just to make sure someone hasn't switched them at some point. My jumpers are set for 120 ac, my voltage coming in is 120....
I'm still learning, so I know a little.... but not enough to ...Know! 
The voltage coming from the transformer into that section is 14.7 vlts ac, (blue wires).......so that checked ok...
Vr1 is still on the board, do these go bad? Is there a way to test them? Could this be a possible problem? Am I reading schematic wrong! HAHA I'm having a blast so far but this part...where tp3 voltage is high is driving me nuts!! I even ran ground to the board, just grasping for anything, and no change. f3 is the only fuse in it right now. Earlier when the board was together, and all fuses plugged in the voltage jumped to 37 vltsdc, if I put the meter on ac, I get 5 volts ac at TP3.....the schematic says dc.......And HOW!! Am I getting an ac and dc reading from the same test point! I'm using a decent meter, so the meter is good! It's an Ibm made by fluke, I know my basics with that. and how to set it....So, I'm really stumped on this part!
I admire those of you with the patience to deal with this stuff. I almost always just pony up the $200 for an altek and never worry about it again.
Quoted from KenLayton:I'm dealing with a damaged EK MPU board now. I've got at least 4 hours labor into it now and I still can't get it to boot due to so many damaged traces. I'm ready to order an Altek board.
I'm half tempted to remove everything from the board and do it right, but I haven't made it past the rectifier board yet!.....Last night I decided to start at the wall outlet and work my way in checking everything on the way...I got stuck on this tp3 thing and kind of wonder if maybe I'm just reading something wrong... I'm having way too much fun though! I have to fix the mpu when I get back to it! I just have to! Well?, unless I can't!
A few years back a neighbor gave me the meter,logic probe,the tools to take the connector pins apart, amp probes, and bunch of other stuff I have no clue what it is yet. A big box of caps,resistors,ic's,etc..... My dad was into electronic repair so I picked a few things up from him and from places that I've worked at simple fixes. This is fun because I can try to learn a lot more as I go. None of it scares me, just a lot I don't know enough about yet...
I'm back up to the mpu...
Thanks all for the responses..
and you guys were right....It couldn't be just patched quick...But? I had to try!!!
Now!! I pulled everything from the corrosion areas...Pulled pads,through holes, etc... Some of the parts were held in by corrosion, in some areas there wasn't any solder there....So, after burning my fingers almost jamming the soldering iron in my eyes or fore head from slipping off the board..I now have a starting point and a pile of parts!! I sanded and read the guide posted above (real quick)....
I have no clue how im going to fix the pads and through holes yet...I wish I could just order a pile of parts but right now that is not an option. I'll have to use whatever I can find around the house, make jumpers, etc....I'll figure that out when I start putting things back together. Now!!! I'll get some practice soldering for sure!!
Heres a couple pics...I'm still picking at it..I gave it a few baths in vinegar and a water rinse, used a hair dryer to dry it out good. I'm going to try to clean up and reuse what I can.. This isn't the way I'd like to repair, but I have to work with what I have for now..
Also, notice how I kept my parts nice and organized!! This is going to be fun! Like a puzzle!!
I had the board a lot shinier, the last vinegar rinse turned anything with the silver colored coating left dark....
Quoted from Joker2415:Now!!! I'll get some practice soldering for sure!!
Looks like you're well on your way to learning a ton from the experience! The next board(s) you do will seem like a piece of cake compared to that board
Parts aren't *too expensive* -- resistors are $0.05 or less.. the "Molex KK" headers will probably be $4-5. You'd probably want sockets or at least the female SIP strips for any ICs you removed so you aren't soldering replacement ICs directly to the board in case you have issues.
For parts there's https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/ and http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com
Ed @ GPE has his own brand of Molex KK headers that are a bit cheaper than Molex brand. He also sells corrosion repair kits, but looks like he's out of stock.. you might try emailing him though just to see if he could put one together for you.
Not sure how you'll be reusing parts or using what you have around, but don't use the short 2.54mm headers that are cheaper, the wire harness plugs will easily fall out of those since the pins don't push in very far and you'll hate yourself for not buying the KK headers. I'd not recommend trying to reuse resistors, diodes, etc that are green, grey, discolored or falling apart.. not cost prohibitive and why populate with damaged parts after going through the effort of cleaning up the board?
As you mentioned, the bigger problem will be fixing any pulled pads/traces. Take lots of detailed pictures, check continuity on anything you fix.. and anything that looks suspect. Check continuity on the 5101 traces and traces that run under or to pads of the ICs you removed since after you install a socket they'll be hard to see. And.. again, take detailed pictures NOW while the board is bare.. that way when you find something isn't working right you can load them up and zoom in... that's helped me out a lot of times.
Looks like you're making headway. It will be a process, but as long as you're having fun and learning something along the way, why not go for it.
In the advanced section of the following post there's info on repairing pads, traces and through-holes.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1
Quoted from acebathound:Looks like you're well on your way to learning a ton from the experience! The next board(s) you do will seem like a piece of cake compared to that board
Parts aren't *too expensive* -- resistors are $0.05 or less.. the "Molex KK" headers will probably be $4-5. You'd probably want sockets or at least the female SIP strips for any ICs you removed so you aren't soldering replacement ICs directly to the board in case you have issues.
For parts there's https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/ and http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com
Ed @ GPE has his own brand of Molex KK headers that are a bit cheaper than Molex brand. He also sells corrosion repair kits, but looks like he's out of stock.. you might try emailing him though just to see if he could put one together for you.
Not sure how you'll be reusing parts or using what you have around, but don't use the short 2.54mm headers that are cheaper, the wire harness plugs will easily fall out of those since the pins don't push in very far and you'll hate yourself for not buying the KK headers. I'd not recommend trying to reuse resistors, diodes, etc that are green, grey, discolored or falling apart.. not cost prohibitive and why populate with damaged parts after going through the effort of cleaning up the board?
As you mentioned, the bigger problem will be fixing any pulled pads/traces. Take lots of detailed pictures, check continuity on anything you fix.. and anything that looks suspect. Check continuity on the 5101 traces and traces that run under or to pads of the ICs you removed since after you install a socket they'll be hard to see. And.. again, take detailed pictures NOW while the board is bare.. that way when you find something isn't working right you can load them up and zoom in... that's helped me out a lot of times.
Thank you!
I have some of the socket strips, I bought a bunch of stuff a while back to work on a high speed project I have. I never got back to it because I wanted to redo the PF right, and get some practice before I paint that one. Luckily some of the parts I bought for that are the same. I also have a huge box of mixed parts from years ago trying to teach myself and plugging things into bread boards,people gave me etc... so I'm going to dig through there. Your right on the pictures!! I can Identify and test most parts, sometimes I have to do some net surfing to figure out what they are. My biggest problem right now is sitting down and figuring out locations, since most of my numbers are off the board. Which is fine it will give me some schematic reading practice. I know some basics but some of it is still foreign to me. Luckily I did take pictures before I took it apart if I have to refer back to them. But for now I want to try to do it the hard way to teach myself more...
This board was basically trash, so I sure can't hurt it too much! It would still be nice if it worked when I was done though!
Quoted from terryb:Looks like you're making headway. It will be a process, but as long as you're having fun and learning something along the way, why not go for it.
In the advanced section of the following post there's info on repairing pads, traces and through-holes.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1
Thanks for all the great info you put out there!! I was reading a little in a couple of your threads. I repaired pocket watches for a while as a hobby. I'm noticing a lot of the tools come in handy for this stuff too! Small drills,files, punches, etc...I was thinking I could make small rivets on the jewelers lathe but........ I'm not sure I want to put that much time in it! I will read that section of your thread tonight!! Thanks again!!!
Quoted from Joker2415:My biggest problem right now is sitting down and figuring out locations, since most of my numbers are off the board.
I can help solve that problem (thanks again to Ed @ GPE)
At the bottom of the page here.. there are "Kit Instructions" -- with a board layout & full component list. I print this out, highlight components I need to replace with a highlighter on the board layout & also on the component list. Makes life a *TON* easier.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BALLY35-BA-KIT
wife on the phone with her mom....." Ya, I have no clue what he's doing out there!! He came in and got vinegar, a hairdryer, and took some of my nail polish out to the garage! When I asked him what he was doing? He said, "Hey! What I do in the garage is my business!" If he comes back in and asks me for a skirt? I'm coming to stay with you mom! I don't even want to know whats going on out there! He was mumbling something about Pacman and acid?"
Quoted from acebathound:I can help solve that problem (thanks again to Ed @ GPE)
At the bottom of the page here.. there are "Kit Instructions" -- with a board layout & full component list. I print this out, highlight components I need to replace with a highlighter on the board layout & also on the component list. Makes life a *TON* easier.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BALLY35-BA-KIT
Thank you!!! Now, I can start sorting and laying stuff out!!
Thanks again!!
Added..
WOW!! Thank you!!! I just went and looked!! It is clear, and with a parts list for the resistors. The manual I was looking at was hard to read and said refer to schematic for resistors. It was a pain to try to sort out! This makes it a lot easier, readable, etc...
soldering on this thing is tough! I'll have to read through the soldering thread again...It doesn't help that my iron was probably about 7 bucks and is probably about wore out! You gotta be quick! Or it all flows to the other side. Like a slinky!! It takes just the right amount of time.....So, I need to go back and read a little more....At least now I have an idea of what happens. The thread will sink in a little more this time..
Quoted from acebathound:I can help solve that problem (thanks again to Ed @ GPE)
At the bottom of the page here.. there are "Kit Instructions" -- with a board layout & full component list. I print this out, highlight components I need to replace with a highlighter on the board layout & also on the component list. Makes life a *TON* easier.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BALLY35-BA-KIT
Thanks again, that print saved my rear!!! In case anyone is trying to use that to locate parts on their board . Above tp2 is a spot on my board for a diode. That print saved my A$$ A lot of time!!!!!! And is a huge help!!.............. Are different on my board from the above drawing and the schematic found on the Pinball data base for Mr. and Mrs. pac man. I haven't figured that one out yet and left them for now,I'll try to understand that later. Maybe a chip change? I also had a lower resistance resistor off of the 555. I put a closer to correct one in and found a new 555.No clue why that was done, maybe to compensate for bad or corroded parts, to get the voltage at the 555 higher? I'll start fresh with that. Those are things I found so far. I'm still working on it here and there. I'll post a few pics of my mess, whether it works or not when I get a little closer to finished. I have decoding resistors down! After getting the multipliers wrong a few times and soldering the wrong ones in. I'm glad I caught that I was doing that wrong part way through. I'm on the caps now.
I figured someone would get a laugh out of my stupidity while working on this board.....
I've had parts in and out, soldered un-soldered, jumpers every where then decided to try to fix the traces etc.. so basically? I think I'm making a mess! To give you a kind of a picture, I'm sitting in the corner of the garage, folding table and chair set up with a lap top, boxes of misc parts and junk, The machine beside the table, basic tools etc....
I'm trying to fix the traces. I was unsure of how sensitive everything really was to static. So, my "great plan" was to plug the machine in since all my grounds are good in that and run a jumper from the ground in the machine to my little folding table, then a jumper to a spiral notebook laying on top of the table. I touch one of those before I handle any Ic's. Have no clue if that is what you are supposed to do or not. But hey? What can it hurt? I'm trying to check the continuity in the traces. They seem to be all connected? I pick the board up look and look, try again, same thing! What the h### is going on? I look again, everything looks ok, how can they all be connected?
Ya,....Well, when I was checking for continuity? I was laying the board on the spiral notebook!!!! I felt like such the biggest Dumb A$$!!! I never like to admit to mistakes, but I figured someone would get a laugh out of it!
Quoted from Joker2415:I figured someone would get a laugh out of my stupidity while working on this board.....
I've had parts in and out, soldered un-soldered, jumpers every where then decided to try to fix the traces etc.. so basically? I think I'm making a mess! To give you a kind of a picture, I'm sitting in the corner of the garage, folding table and chair set up with a lap top, boxes of misc parts and junk, The machine beside the table, basic tools etc....
I'm trying to fix the traces. I was unsure of how sensitive everything really was to static. So, my "great plan" was to plug the machine in since all my grounds are good in that and run a jumper from the ground in the machine to my little folding table, then a jumper to a spiral notebook laying on top of the table. I touch one of those before I handle any Ic's. Have no clue if that is what you are supposed to do or not. But hey? What can it hurt? I'm trying to check the continuity in the traces. They seem to be all connected? I pick the board up look and look, try again, same thing! What the h### is going on? I look again, everything looks ok, how can they all be connected?
Ya,....Well, when I was checking for continuity? I was laying the board on the spiral notebook!!!! I felt like such the biggest Dumb A$$!!!
It happened to me before when setting a board on the lockdown bar/rails of a machine, in order to test the connectors. You only do it a couple times and then you never do it again. It's all just part of learning the correct coin-op repair procedures. Now I just carry around a piece of scrap cardboard to lay things on when testing. It REALLY comes in handy when you need to solder something out on a service call, or separate connectors to isolate voltages, when boards are not screwed down.
Quoted from Joker2415:wife on the phone with her mom....." Ya, I have no clue what he's doing out there!! He came in and got vinegar, a hairdryer, and took some of my nail polish out to the garage! When I asked him what he was doing? He said, "Hey! What I do in the garage is my business!" If he comes back in and asks me for a skirt? I'm coming to stay with you mom! I don't even want to know whats going on out there! He was mumbling something about Pacman and acid?"</blockquote
Rolling on the floor till I pee on myself....
I start these threads, then I forget about them or never make it back too them.(can't find them )
What a learning experience!!! I've had this board apart about 4 times in some area's. I replaced pretty much everything on the board. I learned how much? I really didn't know!
I thought I knew electronics? Nope! Not really! I'm learning though...Slowly!
I thought I knew how to solder? Nope! Not at all! Still learning there too!
Plug the Rom in backwards? The little window will glow! Cool!! Yep! I did that on U2. Can I blame it on beer?
Couldn't find anything to cut the flux, so I tried acetone! It took the color band off of my cheap resistors..
The board probably didn't need every part new, but I did it for the experience and to kind of play around. Through PM help from another member that walked me through this, and the board now works! Thank YOU!
It's rough, not pretty! But it works. My pics aren't the greatest, but here's the board all patched up! Will it last? no clue!
Quoted from dasvis:Seriously? I have this & it's a turd.
It's ok to be wrong. A lot of people actually like that game. I have a lot of time and money invested in one to make it great. It's a lot of fun to play in a group and most people do not understand the rules. Hell, I've owned the machine for years and just recently discovered that your bonus multiplier is only awarded at the end of a game, not at the end of each ball. First pinball video mode... I would recommend the game to anyone that was ever an arcade player in the 80's. It's certainly a lot more fun than the video game pac-man (slow).
Quoted from dasvis:Seriously? I have this & it's a turd.
You may be right! I haven't played it yet! Some of this, isn't about the actual game play.It's memory lane, a Classic! Some of us grew up when Pac-man ,Donkey Kong, frogger,etc.... where the newest games out! Or like me, I caught the tail end of it. It was a lot better than playing pong on the TRS-80! Trying to get the cassette recorder to load the game!!!! OHHHH GEEZZZ I'm old!The round Pacman "hologram" in the sticker book, or Trapper Keeper rules!!! Pac-man ANYTHING is the best!
Some of you guys just don't understand! "Pacmans a turd!" dang.....Those are meet someone at the swingset at recess, words right there! Ok I'm going to go listen to some Megadeth or Slayer just to calm down now!
Quoted from dasvis:Yeah, perhaps i was a but harsh. I just dont like the stoppage of pinball action to do the video maze. They sure sold a lot of these
No, I'm just messing around anyhow! You weren't really that harsh. It gets boring in the garage at times!
Quoted from snyper2099:True, they made a bunch of them... However, A TON of them were parted out for their boards though. It's actually difficult to find this title in good condition. I looked for years to find a decent one. It reminds me of NBA Fastbreak in a way.
Mine was my 2nd pin, bought it at an old car swap meet & the guy had it in the back of a flatbed with a bunch of car parts - engines, differentals, transmissons. He must have owned a wrecking yard or something, as he had a hydraulic crane on the front of the bed. He literally picked the pin up with the crane to unload it! Wish I had a photo, it was dangling 20' in the air.
Pin was complete, except missing one display. Main board was battery acid toast, but I was able to get it running (after much dicking around with it). cab needs paint, playfield is average as most are.
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Olympia, WA