(Topic ID: 207816)

Help or advice for a school pinball project

By MarkG

6 years ago


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    Wiring diagram v2.pdf (PDF preview)
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    #1 6 years ago

    I'm working remotely with a class that wants to build a simple pinball machine. Nothing fancy, just a working pair of flippers to start. There is apparently little to no local pinball or electrical expertise so I've offered to help them online. They have a limited budget and would be further limited to buying parts from established companies rather than individuals or auctions. Donations would probably be an option too.

    So given those constraints, I'd like to compile a parts list and assembly instructions so that someone unfamiliar with pinball could order and install the parts into the cabinet they're building.

    Since I'm much more familiar with EM games, I'm inclined to gather parts and drawings from a 70s Gottlieb or Williams parts catalog. I'd likely recommend AC solenoids so they could use just a transformer instead of a DC power supply. (Possibly a smaller 24v transformer too rather than a standard game transformer). My intention would be to identify the lowest cost, and most readily available parts to assemble a complete working pair of flippers.

    So would late model EM parts be a good solution, or are there solid state parts I should consider instead? Any other suggestions to simplify the process for the class?

    Thanks,

    /Mark

    #2 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    I'm working remotely with a class that wants to build a simple pinball machine. Nothing fancy, just a working pair of flippers to start. There is apparently little to no local pinball or electrical expertise so I've offered to help them online. They have a limited budget and would be further limited to buying parts from established companies rather than individuals or auctions. Donations would probably be an option too.
    So given those constraints, I'd like to compile a parts list and assembly instructions so that someone unfamiliar with pinball could order and install the parts into the cabinet they're building.
    Since I'm much more familiar with EM games, I'm inclined to gather parts and drawings from a 70s Gottlieb or Williams parts catalog. I'd likely recommend AC solenoids so they could use just a transformer instead of a DC power supply. (Possibly a smaller 24v transformer too rather than a standard game transformer). My intention would be to identify the lowest cost, and most readily available parts to assemble a complete working pair of flippers.
    So would late model EM parts be a good solution, or are there solid state parts I should consider instead? Any other suggestions to simplify the process for the class?
    Thanks,
    /Mark

    Adding a bridge rectifier for newer DC recruiters is only one extra part, not a big deal.

    Although used parts can be great, if you any guarantee a supply I'd go with something that at least can be bought new, even if it's more expensive. WPC and classic Stern mechs can be bought brand new and fully assembled

    #3 6 years ago

    Mark, How old are the students?

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Adding a bridge rectifier for newer DC recruiters is only one extra part

    An extra part, a little extra wiring, a little extra complication to make sure the (from scratch) wiring conforms with the solenoid diode. Might be worth it if DC solenoids are cheaper. Are they?

    Quoted from PinballAir:

    Mark, How old are the students?

    High school age.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    Might be worth it if DC solenoids are cheaper. Are they?

    Same price.

    #6 6 years ago

    I'm helping with a local high school class myself.
    First, I gave them a $50 Zizzle and some pointers on upgrading the buttons. This was a nice, easy intro.
    Second, I picked up a home edition Fireball for $100. They tinkered with it for a bit, then I picked it up during the summer to rebuild the controls and power supply. You can search for my thread with "fireball arduino." After some mistakes and wrong turns on my part, the system is flipping under microcontroller control, and the kids will pick it up from there(art retheme, switches, controlling the multi-color LEDs, etc).
    I also gave them some older parts just to hook up to plywood. They had some fun writing control code for flippers and pop bumpers. I just picked up 24V and 28V parts from ebay to experiment on.
    If the kids don't have an existing controller infrastructure already being taught(this school already uses Arduinos), you could just point them at the Open Pinball Project and the Mission Pinball Framework. For hardware, find someone to donate a populated playfield. I personally like the 70-early 80s Williams games. EM or SS doesn't really matter if you are going to build a new controller for it anyway. You'll likely pay less for a non-playing el cheapo project than you would a pile of new parts from Pinball Life or Marco. Someone might even be able to get a tax break for a donation of junk, so check with the school to see how to get that done.

    #7 6 years ago

    There may be some helpful info here:

    http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

    and here:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-figure-out-the-bare-minimum-costparts-to-build-a-whitewood

    You could probably expect to spend around $500 in parts & materials for a bare-bones playfield with flippers, trough, and slingshots.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from ThatOneDude:

    I'm helping with a local high school class myself.
    First, I gave them a $50 Zizzle and some pointers on upgrading the buttons. This was a nice, easy intro.

    I remember reading about your class project. This project won't be that ambitious. Just a pair of working flippers (power source, wire, flipper and EOS switches and flipper assemblies).

    A donated playfield would be a good start, but would still require other parts (transformer, flipper buttons, coil sleeves, etc.).

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    WPC and classic Stern mechs can be bought brand new and fully assembled

    This is one of the cheaper assemblies I've found:

    https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172

    I don't know much about the coil options, but I assume they're are all DC coils. (?) I wonder if they can be used with AC if you clip the diodes off. If the coil stops are DC specific the flippers might buzz.

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    This is one of the cheaper assemblies I've found:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
    I don't know much about the coil options, but I assume they're are all DC coils. (?) I wonder if they can be used with AC if you clip the diodes off. If the coil stops are DC specific the flippers might buzz.

    It'd work, but I'll be pretty weak.

    #11 6 years ago

    At any given time, there is usually a small selection of transformers available on ebay--typically early solid state or EM. You could try grabbing one of those that matches the coil voltage(s) you need.

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    At any given time, there is usually a small selection of transformers available on ebay--typically early solid state or EM. You could try grabbing one of those that matches the coil voltage(s) you need.

    That's generally what I do but apparently the school can only cut a check to vendors, not to individuals.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    That's generally what I do but apparently the school can only cut a check to vendors, not to individuals.

    k's arcade has a few transformers. I'm sure a few other vendors do as well.

    #14 6 years ago

    Can they buy a switching power supply from eBay stores? That what my machine uses, along with the OPP power filter board to buffer the solenoid power spikes. Cheaper and lighter than a transformer.

    #15 6 years ago

    Also, for buttons, an easy to find, cheap option is the Philmore game buttons(30-782). If you live near a Fry's, they usually stock these.
    For a really simple demo, they could use an Arduino with a relay shield, like this: https://m.seeedstudio.com/productDetail/2440
    A simple program to debounce the switches and fire the relays could get this working quickly. I was even able to use a low amperage 24v wall transformer and three 36v capacitors to fire a demo flipper and pop bumper. Certainly not a production quality set up, but it worked.
    Something more robust would be to buy a pair of flipper assemblies from pinball life fully assembled. If you read Vid's flipper rebuild guide, he describes an ideal setup as a replacement for pre-fliptronic flipper assemblies. At least then you aren't debugging a burnt coil or the like on top of everything else.

    #16 6 years ago

    Ah, I missed a post. That link to pinball life is the same assembly I was referring to. It costs a little extra to trade the coil and EOS switch out for your needs, which is the setup Vid describes: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606

    #17 6 years ago

    If they can buy from Amazon, you can get a power supply like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HTH0MUE/ref=mp_s_a_1_4

    This board would buffer the power spikes: http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/OPP#Power_Filter_Board

    I can vouch that they are quick and easy to build.

    #18 6 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the suggestions. If I try to compile a complete shopping list so far I'd have:

    - Right and left complete Bally/Williams flipper assemblies
    (https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172)
    configured as shown here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773618

    - 2 flipper bats
    (e.g. https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=269)

    - 2 flipper rubbers
    (e.g. https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=79)

    - 2 cabinet flipper buttons
    (e.g https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1692)

    - 2 flipper leaf switches
    (e.g. https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=153)

    - 1 pinball
    (e.g https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=5)

    - 1 36DCV/9.6A power supply from the post above which can apparently be dialed down to 28VDC
    (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HTH0MUE/ref=mp_s_a_1_4)

    - 1 grounded power cord
    (e.g. https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4190)

    - 18 (?) gauge wire to tie it all together
    - screws for the flipper assemblies, flipper leaf switches, and power supply (?)
    - complete instructions and wiring diagram (tbd)

    Questions:
    - It looks like the complete flipper assembly comes with a playfield bushing. Is that right?
    - The flipper leaf switches look like they're for high current, correct?
    (edit: other sites indicate that the SW-10A-48 switch can be used for high current or even EM switches)
    - Are all these parts compatible?
    - Have I missed anything?

    Thanks,

    /Mark

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    It looks like the complete flipper assembly comes with a playfield bushing. Is that right?
    - The flipper leaf switches look like they're for high current, correct?

    Bushing included. I would confirm switch with Terry since it doesn't say.

    #20 6 years ago

    I just bought three of those flipper assemblies for my Flash retheme. Yes, the switches are high current, and the playfield bushing is attached.

    #21 6 years ago

    Here is a wiring diagram intended for those with limited electrical and pinball experience wanting to assemble the parts from reply #18. Comments or suggestions? I though about adding fuses for example, but the power supply already seems to have overload and short circuit protection.

    (edit: This design probably needs capacitors at a minimum. See replies below)

    /Mark
    Wiring diagram.pdfWiring diagram.pdf

    #22 6 years ago

    You need some capacitors between the solenoids and the PS. It may work sometimes, but you will likely cause the PS to think there is a short on every solenoid firing(this is the short circuit protection you mentioned).
    I would suggest building the OPP power filter board. It's not too expensive and nicely solves the problem. Barring that, you might Google for "capacitors parallel solenoid" to see how others have done it. Other than that, make sure you adjust the EOS to avoid burning the coils.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from ThatOneDude:

    You need some capacitors between the solenoids and the PS.

    Yeah, I overlooked that. Thanks. Adding capacitors and possibly inrush current limiters may push this design over the simplicity threshold I'm hoping for and I'm not sure that board level soldering is even an option in this context. (It's more of a shop and art class than an electronics class.) It certainly adds complexity, vendors, cost, etc.

    Perhaps there are DC power supplies out there with output capacitors intended for momentary high current demands already built in?

    Switching to an appropriately sized AC transformer and clipping the diodes on the coils would certainly be simpler and likely cheaper. I get that the flippers might not be as strong as they could be with DC, but this is more of a learning exercise where the flippers are just a small part of the project than quest for a high performance design.

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    Adding capacitors and possibly inrush current limiters may push this design over the simplicity threshold I'm hoping for and I'm not sure that board level soldering is even an option in this context. (It's more of a shop and art class than an electronics class.) It certainly adds complexity, vendors, cost, etc.

    Well, I just built one for the first time, I am slow and admittedly not a great soldering expert. It was a 30 minute job. I spent more time by far on the solenoid driver boards. As described, you wouldn't need the control parts. Just the single PS version which leaves off some parts. http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/OPP#Power_Filter_Board_3
    I keep pushing it because it really is easier than rolling your own. I've done both, and the OPP board will make the lives of the students so much nicer.

    #25 6 years ago

    I agree with using the OPP power buffer board. It’s an easy build and dirt cheap. ($2 bucks i think) for the board and you source the parts.

    Also it is absolutely necessary if you want to use a switching power supply which I also recommend (safer, lighter, cheaper). Without the buffer board the inrush to my flipper coils will instantly cause my power supply circuit breaker to trip and the flipper will just twitch a little once.

    Doing something similar for a local community college. We also restored a Space Shuttle and stripped an alien poker for parts. Unfortunately the alien poker was so badly thrashed there wasn’t as much salvagable as we were hoping.

    Right now the focus is participaing in the NASA Swarmathon so I’m just tinkering quietly waiting to get started back up.

    #26 6 years ago

    I checked and the class instructor is willing to tackle the soldering so we're going to add the Open Pinball Project Power Filter board (http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/OPP#Power_Filter_Board_3). I've put together these instructions to configure the board for one power supply and no processor control (just the flipper button switches). I've revised the OPP instructions to include the LED and bleeder resistor to indicate when the capacitors are charged and to discharge them when the power is cut.

    Note that three capacitors may be overkill for a pair of flippers, but they won't hurt either. I haven't included the connector headers in the diagrams because the class may choose to hard wire the connections if appropriate crimping tools aren't available.

    Power Filter Board.pdfPower Filter Board.pdf

    I've also revised the wiring diagram to include the power filter board.

    Wiring diagram v2.pdfWiring diagram v2.pdf

    Any other comments, concerns or corrections? I've learned a lot going through the details.

    #27 6 years ago

    Looks great, they should be able to complete that. Did you want to include anything else such as a pop bumper?

    #28 6 years ago

    I concur. Looks good. When you start mounting parts, make sure to leave room for expansion. The kids might want to add a pop bumper or slingshot in the future.
    For now, just buy some posts(or use heavy nails) and add a bunch of rubber bands in triangular patterns to act as passive bumpers.

    4 weeks later
    #29 6 years ago

    I apologize for such a late reply, but you might just want to make sure that the flipper switches that you are using can handle the current. There are two different styles depending on the age and location within the machine. With many earlier pinball machines, the current went through the flipper switches as you have shown. The switch will have much larger contact pads (maybe 1/4 inch in diameter), and the contact pads are normally made of silver alloy. Low current pads are only about 1/32 inch in diameter and have a pad made of copper. If using a switch with a low current pad in a high current application, the switch can arc and "weld" itself together. Doesn't happen very frequently, but it can happen. You can also see a lot more oxidation on the pad because the arc is eating away the metal.

    The reason I'm pointing this out is that if adding a pop bumper, you may run into the same sort of a problem. Pop bumpers take a lot less current than flippers so it might not be an issue, but it is something to look out for. Just take a look at the switch pads after a week and see how they are holding up.

    3 months later
    #30 5 years ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    I'm working remotely with a class that wants to build a simple pinball machine. Nothing fancy, just a working pair of flippers to start.

    Update: I received an email from the instructor today. The semester is about over but the game came together and the flippers worked great. (Thanks everyone for your input.) They hope to add more playfield objects and scoring next year. He also sent a photo:
    pinball 1 (resized).jpgpinball 1 (resized).jpg

    #31 5 years ago

    Nice! I like the launch channel.

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