(Topic ID: 232512)

Help on assessing battery leakage board damage Bally WPC

By neemypeemy

5 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Langless28
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Hi all,

Would like input on the extent of the damage on my Dr Who board from battery leakage? I think I've gotten lucky as it all came up with the vinegar/water/alcohol method without having to resort to stronger acids.

The solder on the wires right under the middle battery where it leaked is no longer shiny from the vinegar and I may have bent the top right wire a tad with the wire brush. Wondering if anyone can see anything else that may cause issue or warrant further measures?

Thanks for your help!

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#2 5 years ago

Maybe you've already read it, but I found terryb's guide helpful.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage

Love the nail color by the way

#3 5 years ago

I’d toss the battery holder. Too many nooks and crannies . Pull u22 in case and check. Looks pretty good otherwise. Maybe scrape around the battery board solder connections, maybe some bubbling there. Then Give it a shot.

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Maybe you've already read it, but I found terryb's guide helpful.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage
Love the nail color by the way

Yes, I read that before I touched anything, but thank you for checking!

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Phat_Jay:

I’d toss the battery holder. Too many nooks and crannies . Pull u22 in case and check. Looks pretty good otherwise. Maybe scrape around the battery board solder connections, maybe some bubbling there. Then Give it a shot.

Will do. Yeah, going to look into either hooking up an external AA holder or switch to a coin battery after this... Thanks for the feedback!

#6 5 years ago

Glad you got the new thread going. Until your board is solid all the other issues could be caused by it.

faz

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Phat_Jay:

I’d toss the battery holder. Too many nooks and crannies . Pull u22 in case and check. Looks pretty good otherwise. Maybe scrape around the battery board solder connections, maybe some bubbling there. Then Give it a shot.

Hi all, should I just go ahead and replace R35-R38 and U20 just to be safe? I've been having some weird mini-playfield issues that may be related to the battery leakage, but no switch errors during the tests when everything was put together. Since i have the board out thought it might be better just to go ahead and do it rather than have to take back out and do it later.

If so, I found ULN2803A on Marco's site, but it looks like the Dr Who resistor they have is 22k and per the color codes the ones on the board look to be 21k. Can 22k be used? Not sure if they have to match exactly. Also, are these 1/4 watt or 1/2 watt?

Thanks!

#8 5 years ago

All are 1/8 Watt. Resistor values can be found here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-89-cpu-board-info#post-3516478

Inspect traces in red circles, they look corroded as well. And possible under the socket of U20.
wpc89-1 (resized).jpgwpc89-1 (resized).jpg

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

All are 1/8 Watt. Resistor values can be found here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-89-cpu-board-info#post-3516478
Inspect traces in red circles, they look corroded as well. And possible under the socket of U20.
[quoted image]

Thank you! So, I also only see 22k for 1/8 watt as well, are those ok to replace the 21k that are on the board now?

#10 5 years ago

If you mean the 4 resistors just above U20 (R35-R38), they are 10K. The colors are faded but used to be Black-Brown-Orange. With a multimeter you can measure the resistors. It will show close to 10.000 Ohm.

it is ok to use 1/4 Watt.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/R025W10K

socket:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/DIP18

edit:
make that Brown-Black-Orange

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

If you mean the 4 resistors just above U20 (R35-R38), they are 10K. The colors are faded but used to be Black-Brown-Orange. With a multimeter you can measure the resistors. It will show close to 10.000 Ohm.
it is ok to use 1/4 Watt.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/R025W10K
socket:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/DIP18

Ahh, ok I thought that was red, brown, orange. Thanks!

#12 5 years ago

Your board has 21K resistors installed. These are simply pull up resistors on the open collector outputs from the quad comparators. 10K will work, 21K will work (but not a standard value), 22K should also work. But I would go down in value to standard value for that location - anything between 10K and 20K.

#13 5 years ago

More than just the resistors and U20, it went under the U20 IC socket, which will be a bit difficult to remove. Also U16 was hit as well as the "B" capacitor. 2018-12-27 12_41_59-Help on assessing battery leakage board damage Bally WPC _ Tech_ Generic _ Pinsi (resized).png2018-12-27 12_41_59-Help on assessing battery leakage board damage Bally WPC _ Tech_ Generic _ Pinsi (resized).png

Also you have an area I marked off where the dark areas are actually is the alkaline that got under the solder mask. Best to remove all the parts and then sand on the affected areas, then treating the areas then you can install the new parts. 2018-12-27 12_42_55- (resized).png2018-12-27 12_42_55- (resized).png

#14 5 years ago

As long as there is any of this dull look to any of the parts, it is best to only apply heat to the backside of the board. If you put any heat on the top side of the affected area, the heat will speed up the damage quickly and just eat it up. Once you have the area sanded, it will not be any problem applying heat to the area.

#15 5 years ago

Here you can see a before and after photo of a board I repaired.20170408_115512 (resized).jpg20170408_115512 (resized).jpg20170409_111916 (resized).jpg20170409_111916 (resized).jpg

#16 5 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stripping-battery-corrosion-with-a-strong-acid

You NEED to use stronger acid than vinegar, or the corrosion will return.

Read the above link and do it right.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stripping-battery-corrosion-with-a-strong-acid
You NEED to use stronger acid than vinegar, or the corrosion will return.
Read the above link and do it right.

Thanks @vid1900, pinball_faz gave me that link and I went out and bought some Sno bol. So once I have it stripped am definitely going to do that, thank you!

All, just out of curiosity, how much is a new board and who sells them?

#18 5 years ago

send them to borygard or chris hibler they will get you fixed up. still a lot of damage there that will come back to haunt you.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from neemypeemy:

All, just out of curiosity, how much is a new board and who sells them?

A brand new, unpopulated PCB board is ~$40

I'm driving, but a bunch of online stores and ebay sells them

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

send them to borygard or chris hibler they will get you fixed up. still a lot of damage there that will come back to haunt you.

They both will add NVRAM to get rid of those batteries forever.

#21 5 years ago

Yeah, I would actually rather just buy a whole new board rather than having it repaired and something else going wrong down the line.

Having a look at this, thoughts? http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/689/bally-williams-wpc-89-mpu.htm

#22 5 years ago

It definitely would be a bit cheaper having the original board repaired, which I prefer.

#23 5 years ago

Thank you everyone for your replies and helping point out the additional areas of damage. I've decided I'd feel more comfortable with a brand new board, so am going that route and definitely getting the NVRAM.

I truly appreciate and respect everyone's opinions and insight, thank you!!!

#24 5 years ago

Well, you will need a PLCC tool to remove the U9 ASIC chip to move over along with the CPU chip and game ROM.

#25 5 years ago

After you move the parts over, you can resell the old board.

#26 5 years ago

Yep, I bought a PLCC tool with the board, I had called him and he told me I would need that too. Appreciate your checking Will list original board on pinside when have everything moved over. Thanks again!

#27 5 years ago

Sell it to help fund machine #2 or stash it away to fix a game down the road.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Sell it to help fund machine #2 or stash it away to fix a game down the road.

Can anyone give me a rough ballpark of what an original MPU in this condition would sell for so I have an idea? Thanks!

1 week later
#29 5 years ago
Quoted from neemypeemy:

Can anyone give me a rough ballpark of what an original MPU in this condition would sell for so I have an idea? Thanks!

Hi all, just bumping this, thanks!

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stripping-battery-corrosion-with-a-strong-acid
You NEED to use stronger acid than vinegar, or the corrosion will return.
Read the above link and do it right.

I had this issue on my Medieval Madness when I bought it. It had battery corrosion when I bought it, only in the battery holder. I cleaned it with vinegar after getting the game and moved the batteries to a remote holder away from the boards. Two years later, after having the batteries in a remote holder, the corrosion spread from the battery holder causing the game all kinds of issues. Had to send the board out to Chris Hibler for repairs. Vid is correct, sometimes cleaning the board or battery holder with vinegar will not do the job. I saw Clay Harrell use yellow mustard on a board to kill the acid.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from wiggy07:

I had this issue on my Medieval Madness when I bought it. It had battery corrosion when I bought it, only in the battery holder. I cleaned it with vinegar after getting the game and moved the batteries to a remote holder away from the boards. Two years later, after having the batteries in a remote holder, the corrosion spread from the battery holder causing the game all kinds of issues. Had to send the board out to Chris Hibler for repairs. Vid is correct, sometimes cleaning the board or battery holder with vinegar will not do the job. I saw Clay Harrell use yellow mustard on a board to kill the acid.

Thanks Wiggy, I actually just bought a new board, so was trying to get some idea of how much to sell this one for that needs repaired.

Appreciate everyone who assisted with this thread!

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from wiggy07:

I saw Clay Harrell use yellow mustard on a board to kill the acid.

Mustard is only acidic because it has.....wait for it......vinegar in it.

So it's nowhere near strong enough to neutralize the alkali salts from a battery.

#33 5 years ago

So damned important to replace/change those batteries once a year.. I use a remote holder as well. Someday I will stop being lazy and go NVRam on all my machines.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from HarryReimer:

So damned important to replace/change those batteries once a year.. I use a remote holder as well. Someday I will stop being lazy and go NVRam on all my machines.

Or use Enloop rechargeable batteries, the game will keep them charged, and there is nothing in them to leak.

Camera guys swear by them.

battery-100812-2 (resized).jpgbattery-100812-2 (resized).jpg
#35 5 years ago
Quoted from HarryReimer:

So damned important to replace/change those batteries once a year.. I use a remote holder as well. Someday I will stop being lazy and go NVRam on all my machines.

Yep, I got NVRam for my new board. Now just trying to see who wants my original to repair.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Or use Enloop rechargeable batteries, the game will keep them charged, and there is nothing in them to leak.
Camera guys swear by them.[quoted image]

I will have to check them out.

#37 5 years ago

I'm probably in the minority here, but I say fix it yourself. You have a board on the way, if you mess it up, no big deal. It's not a rare board, you don't have much to lose. Someone may pay $50 for the damaged board with all the chips removed, maybe not even that much. I don't personally think the damage is that bad. Will the corrosion come back if you do a rookie repair? Solid maybe. Likely at some point. For me it would be worth $50 to tinker with it and hopefully have the satisfaction of fixing something, get your feet wet with simple board repair, etc. If you decide to sell the game after you fix the board, I would definitely disclose that it had some battery damage at one point. Or sell it with the replacement and keep yours as a spare. My first major board repair was a badly damaged System 11 board. My soldering wasn't great, but I got it to work. This was probably close to 10 years ago and I bet it still works. Good luck!

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I say fix it yourself. You have a board on the way, if you mess it up, no big deal. It's not a rare board, you don't have much to lose. Someone may pay $50 for the damaged board with all the chips removed, maybe not even that much. I don't personally think the damage is that bad. Will the corrosion come back if you do a rookie repair? Solid maybe. Likely at some point. For me it would be worth $50 to tinker with it and hopefully have the satisfaction of fixing something, get your feet wet with simple board repair, etc. If you decide to sell the game after you fix the board, I would definitely disclose that it had some battery damage at one point. Or sell it with the replacement and keep yours as a spare. My first major board repair was a badly damaged System 11 board. My soldering wasn't great, but I got it to work. This was probably close to 10 years ago and I bet it still works. Good luck!

Hi @shredso, If this was the only thing I needed to do this game I would probably give a shot as I love tinkering with things. However, I've got about 20 other repairs/maintenance/updates on my to do list for this one that take priority. Thanks for your input, will have a think on it.

1 month later
#39 5 years ago

I am repairing my WPC-89 board as we speak too. You can do it! Although I am getting varied opinions on components that are "affected" which sucks. I don't want to remove any more than I have to.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/acid-damage-is-coming-wpc-89#post-4844468

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