(Topic ID: 57016)

Help needed with debris in clearcoat


By Toasterdog

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Pin-it
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 6 years ago

    Okay, so without being too long winded, I recently traded for a pretty nice F-14. Cabinet looks great, plastics look great, ramps look great etc. The playfield overall looks good, but had mylar that is bubbled and a few raised inserts. I felt I could improve it. I love pinball, but enjoy looking them too, so I want my pins beautiful.

    I decided to remove the mylar and was well aware of the adhesive that would be left behind. I had done this once before on a Bounty Hunter, so was somewhat prepared. I was not prepared for the amount of time I spent on this one though. After stripping the topside (lots of soldered on shit BTW) Probably spent a good 20 hours prepping the PF. The mylar was not original, it was placed over a brushed on CC job someone had done previously. So I used pretty much a gallon of naptha and a ton of elbow grease to remove the rest. Finished, by wetsanding 600 and some touchup.

    A used Chromaclear 7776s, 7775s hardner/catalyst. Used an HVLP gun and sprayed 3 coats. I actually was happy with all of them, but some dust did settle in CC. I was not looking for perfection BTW. The final coat was applied after wetsanding. On the final coat, I was literally at my end, I lost patience, I had also applied the remainder of my product. A full quart over the duration.

    In the end, I was not happy. I rushed the final coat, used a gun that was not perfectly clean and got some slight pieces of thicker CC, maybe from the lid that fell down. I decided to do wet sanding, 600 on the raise areas of CC gunk that my gun spit on PF and dust too. It dulled the playfield in areas, but I cannot attain a luster w/ Novus 2/3 /1 wax etc.

    MY QUESTION, FINALLY! IS there any way with polishing compounds, high speed buffer...whatever. That I can get a shine to the dulled CC playfield. I spent soooooo much time doing everything right. I lost patience and blew it at the end. I even had a new gun on order that arrived two days after final app with sub par gun. Just mad I reassemled and did not get more CC and do it right.

    The playfield looks good, minus some dulling around 2 to 3 small splatters of thicker, dried clear I started to wet sand. I want to wet sand them flat and polish field to a high shine. Is this possible or am I beating a dead horse. The pin should play like lightning regardless. I have a nice base of clear on the PF, thanks Craig.

    #2 6 years ago

    This guy video series is good starts from the very beginning all the to the very end.

    #3 6 years ago

    I've watched all those. Very good and actually subscribe. Just not sure about the polishing compounds at this point. I know I could wet sand the debris out. I have a thick enough base. But I would rather leave how it is with some debris vs. massively dulling areas and not being able to restore the luster.

    Was thinking, 600 till flat, maybe 1000 then 2k, before polishing. Don't want to spent a ton of time though if I cant get desired results.

    #4 6 years ago

    Set the playfield aside for a month, it's not fully cured.

    #5 6 years ago

    In my experience, which is admittedly limited, you should be able to get the clear to shine. There are a few questions though.

    The biggest question is...did you give the play field a good amount of time to set after you sprayed? I'm talking two weeks to a month? I wait at least a week, lightly sand and let it gas off for another week at the least. If you don't let it set you won't be able to sand it properly. It will almost melt off in globs rather than sand off in a fine powder albeit wet. It will be a fine powder when dry.

    Someone else can chime in, but a whole quart seems like almost twice as much clear as you really need. I could be wrong but I think I use about half of that. In any case you should have a thick layer of clear on that will take even longer to set. After giving it enough time you should be able to cut flat at 600 and then sand progressively finer to 2000 and then buff with a polish compound. That should give you plenty of shine.
    Good luck.

    #6 6 years ago

    Novus 2 and 3 are plastic polishes. They are not designed to buff auto clear to a high shine. You need the right polish, and the right compounding pads. Your best bet is to visit an auto paint shop and see what they recommend. And you need a high speed buffer.

    Others may have their own recommendations but here's what I used based on advice from an auto paint store. For initial buffing, I used a 3M Perfect-It compounding pad (05737) with Perfect-It rubbing compound (06085). For the final buff I used the Ultrafine foam polish pad (05733) and Ultrafine machine polish (39062). Playfield looked like glass afterwards with absolutely no swirls. The stuff isn't cheap, but you've already bought the expensive clearcoat. May as well do it right and buff it with the right stuff to get the most out of the money you've already spent.

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I decided to do wet sanding, 600 on the raise areas of CC gunk that my gun spit on PF and dust too. It dulled the playfield in areas, but I cannot attain a luster w/ Novus 2/3 /1 wax etc.

    ^^You must finish with higher grit paper and use a polish for urethanes.
    I have used Dupont urethane clears and the window for polishing is better while the paint is somewhat early in its curing stage to polish out as opposed to fully cured ,the clear actually will have some give. (follow their cure times!)Unless your up in millage it may take a little longer.
    Lowest grit(wet sand 1500) (da sander P1500) use prior to polishing for shine is whats recommended in the Dupont product file > http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/HC-7776S_K-15856.pdf
    (1500-2000 grit) ,and finish it up by using a 3M polishing product called Finesse-it II > amazon.com link » Or your local paint supplier/auto parts store in smaller bottles as this stuff is not on the cheap side,just as long as the polish/compound products are not medium or heavy compounds you will be fine.

    Good luck and take your time.

    #8 6 years ago

    what they all said above lol

    #9 6 years ago

    Toaster,

    I'm gonna be the dissenting voice (of reason?).

    None of the rubbing compounds mentioned will be successful in bringing back a uniform gloss to the wet sanded area where 600 grit was used, it would take successive sanding of larger areas with progressive grits before Perfect It could be utilized.

    The right way to correct this is to wet sand the entire playfield and re-coat with clear. Your last clear should be mixed hot, with more reducer than previous layers, so that it will burn into the previous coats and flow out. When done correctly, little to no buffing is necessary.

    Allow the clear to gas off for a month before touch ups of dust nibs.

    You've invested much time and money thus far, might as well do the job correctly and be satisfied, otherwise, you'll see imperfections left from your error for years to come and be swallowed with frustration. That's no way to live

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rody:

    None of the rubbing compounds mentioned will be successful in bringing back a uniform gloss to the wet sanded area where 600 grit was used, it would take successive sanding of larger areas with progressive grits before Perfect It could be utilized.

    Yes, you are right. I overlooked this earlier and went right to the compound/buffing issue since he was using Novus. It needs to be wet sanded with 1000, then 1500, then buffed. If he hasn't broken through his previous coats after sanding (sounds like they were pretty thick), he may be able to finish with what he has done so far.

    #11 6 years ago

    I'm still trying to figure out how you used a whole quart of clear(+the hardener). Now Rody says put more clear on??????

    There is SOME good advice above about how to achieve a nice finish. Sand, sand, sand, cut, buff, polish - progressively finer as you go. Don't skimp on supplies or tools.

    BTW, what your gun probably spit out was water. Learning how to deal with, or better yet prevent, problems is where experience and knowledge is key.

    #12 6 years ago

    Just my 2c-

    I have a set of sanding pads that start at 600 and run to I think *3500* grit. I will be reiterating a bit some of the advice from above.

    Simple fact is- if you want a mirror polish you need to start at about 600 (maybe lower depending on how coarse your biggest defects are) and go through an SERIES of steps up to 2500 grit or so. THEN you can use a rubbing compound (very fine) or a polish to finish it off.

    As has been said before, Novus is completely useless on clear coat as anything other than a cleaner.

    I do not find that I need to spend the really big dollars on a 3M kit, get a set of sanding pads to 3500 grit (or something like this) and step up from 600 - 3500 using as many as 6 different pads between the two, you will finish with a near mirror. Then a very fine rubbing compound or polish will finish it.

    Using a quart of clear is a little heavy for a PF but its likely not an issue... but do give it time to cure. Depending on which clear it may only be a few days to cure or possibly a month... read the product information and believe it.

    #13 6 years ago

    Lee...it is obvious that the OP has not used the products before and is working through his first attempt. That being said, I question his talent/ability at spot correction and blending of the larger defects, retaining a perfectly flat surface. Despite how much clear he has already applied, we are now focusing on correcting and leveling the entire playfield, a process for his level of ability which will be most successful by wet sanding back the playfield and applying a heavily reduced leveling coat.

    Polishing and buffing will not level a poorly sprayed and spot sanded field.

    #14 6 years ago

    A guy gave me his 2nd attempt at clearing a playfield and he put a shit-ton of clear on.

    He also could not get it to buff to a high shine and wanted me to finish it.

    I hit it and it would not buff out.

    I put it under the IR lamps and it still would not buff out.

    Finally, I put it next to the warmth of the shop furnace and let it cure for over a month.

    As soon as I hit it, I felt the normal feel of the wheel and it came out with a mirror finish.

    #15 6 years ago

    Vid is correct, the thicker the clear, the longer to cure.

    Thicker is not better, well prepped bases with multiple thin coats yield the most durable finishes.

    As someone who works with these products daily, it is so frustrating to see so much poor information being dispersed in this hobby in regards to these finishes. Of greatest concern is the casual attitude taken toward personal health and safety when applying products with ISO.

    Please do not use these products without appropriate personal safety and ventilation equipment.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from LEE:

    I'm still trying to figure out how you used a whole quart of clear(+the hardener). Now Rody says put more clear on??????

    Too much millage! I agree ,a whole Qt would paint my trucks hood and fender w/3 coats.
    Should have read the manufactures recommended guidelines.
    Application :
    Apply 2 medium-wet coats with a 3 - 5 minute flash between coats-Recommended Dry Film Thickness: 1.8 - 2.2 mils in 2 coats.

    OP Any pictures of the mishap?

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 7.65
    Cabinet Parts
    Third Coast Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 18.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 25.00
    Apparel - Women
    The Flipper Room
    From: $ 99.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 119.95
    Boards
    Allteksystems
    $ 24.95
    Playfield - Decals
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 49.95
    $ 44.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Pinball Forever
    £ 58.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Sillyoldelf Mods
    $ 29.50
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    $ 109.99
    $ 7,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    From: $ 44.00
    $ 29.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 19.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 44.99
    Electronics
    PinballElectronics.com
    $ 229.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Tilttopper
    $ 39.95
    Playfield - Protection
    Little Shop Of Games
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside