(Topic ID: 82021)

Help needed wiring gameroom

By NYP

10 years ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by CNKay
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 10 years ago

    I'm trying to figure out how to wire up my gameroom and what better place to ask than pinside. First question is how many machines can you put on a 20 amp breaker? Then I have to decide if I want to be able to use wall switches to turn all the outlets on or if I should just use the switches on the machines. Appreciate any input on the matter.
    thanx
    Ron

    #2 10 years ago
    Quoted from NYP:

    First question is how many machines can you put on a 20 amp breaker?

    Technically, about two. Realistically, many more. Most of the time if I notice a rating, it's 8A. This would be the absolute most current the machine will draw.

    I like to keep loading them up until the breaker trips (never has happened to me).

    #3 10 years ago

    I think a good rule is 4-5 machines per 20 amp breaker. This allows for a good cushion for those times when the machines have everything going on at once. Also, remember that any amp draw will vary depending on the number of LEDs you have in your machines.

    I have 5 20 amp circuits in my game room. The most I have on a single one is 3 pinball machines and 2 video arcade games. I also have each circuit on a switch.

    #4 10 years ago

    I would double whatever you think you need for wiring. I would put switches for those outlets, if anything you can leave them always on and turn on per game so gives the flexibility.

    #5 10 years ago

    It depends mostly on how many games you want to have on or play at the same time.

    It'd be embarrassing to have all the guys over and have a row of machines go dead while all being played.
    I'd say three, maybe four per breaker to be sure of avoiding that.

    If you just want to have them all glowing arcade style while you play one game, 10 should be no problem.

    I need to address this issue myself before we have our league night here in a couple months...

    #6 10 years ago
    Quoted from daley:

    I think a good rule is 4-5 machines per 20 amp breaker. This allows for a good cushion for those times when the machines have everything going on at once. Also, remember that any amp draw will vary depending on the number of LEDs you have in your machines.
    I have 5 20 amp circuits in my game room. The most I have on a single one is 3 pinball machines and 2 video arcade games. I also have each circuit on a switch.

    Just curious. Do led's draw more current than incandescent?

    #7 10 years ago
    Quoted from shock_me:

    Do led's draw more current than incandescent?

    Not in the case of pinball bulbs

    #8 10 years ago

    I run 5 per circuit in mine.

    #9 10 years ago

    I have run 9 pins on one circuit during a party and not had a problem. Mine are heavily LEDd so that helps. I would still plan on no more than 6.
    I wouldn't put the receptacles on a switch. What happens if someone accidentally hits the switch during an epic game? Whoops!
    Now is the time to run receptacles higher in the wall for future TV and neon lamps. Also run speaker wire now too IMO.

    #10 10 years ago

    In my basement I have 6 dedicated 20 amp circuits. Around the walls I put double outlet boxes with the left hand side switched with a wall switch(s) located in my work room, mounted a little higher so they are not mistaken for light switches and they are out of the way so they don't get accidently switched off by kids, etc. Never use the circuit breaker to turn the games on and off. Around the outside wall where the games are I put higher up single switched outlets (on the same switch as the nearby lower game circuits) so my neon stuff can also be turned on and off. I didn't bother putting sign outlets on the inside wall because I found they cause unwanted reflections on the pins anyway. I have 2 higher outlets that are not switched that I use for wall mounted TVs, I also ran cable to those spots.

    If I had it to do over I would almost duplicate what I did. With the exception I have too much power on one end of my basement where we ended up putting furniture, and a little lite on the power on the main row of pins where I probably have slightly too many for one of the circuits. But it seems to be working.

    Also consider your lighting in the room. My goal was to minimize overhead light glare on the games while also having enough lighting so that the house would be re-sellable to someone that wasn't into pinball like we are.

    #11 10 years ago

    I'm not sure I understand why the spec sheets says average operation 2.8 amps and maximum operation 8 amps. My guess is it's probably the difference between the machine sitting idle or being played. I spoke to a tech at Stern and they said 7 games on a 20 amp circuit should be ok so I figured I would make it 6 to be safe, but the info I'm getting here now is different. I should have also asked if I should use 12 gauge wire or 14. I assumed 12 was the standard for outlets and 14 for lights but I was wrong, the electrician said they use 14 for outlets now and it meets code requirements, but they are only able to put a certain amount on each circuit, that surprised me.

    As far as whether or not to use wall switches to turn them on, I'm on the fence on that one, leaning towards using switches as I'm the only one there and I'm not worried about someone shutting it off in the middle of the game. Seems like it would very convenient and cool to flip a switch and have them come on. And like jrivelli said, you can have it both ways, if you don't like them switched on the wall you can leave all the games off and still turn them on manually.

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    #12 10 years ago

    Wiring mine now with 12/2 wire and 2 20amp circuits...My collections should total 7 but there will be room for 9. For the original 7 (all on one wall) I am seperating with the 2 20amp circuits. For the other 2 in the future, I already have 15amps coming in so I will use them.

    One thing I noticed when running 5 games, a neon sign, and a subwoofer on a 15amp circut was my TAF and CFTBL would reset often. (not tripping the breaker)...

    The worst part of all of this is fishing the wire through the (finished) ceiling to get to the game room. 2 20amp home runs to the breaker panel on the other side of the house is a PITA...but will be well worth it for when all the games are rolling...

    #13 10 years ago

    I also have two 20-amp circuits with 12 gauge wire, just for the 12 pins in my game room (6 per circuit), with GFI outlets running along two opposite walls about 42" off the floor. The lights and neon signs in the game room are wired to an existing circuit with wall switches for them (but not for the pins).

    #14 10 years ago

    When I was starting my basement I measured the current being pulled by each machine before I decided on how many circuits in the basement. TSPP was seeing an average just over 3A, but a start up around 6A. STTNG on the other hand was running over 4A, and around 8-9A startup.

    These numbers are off the top of my head, but I believe they are withing a couple percent of what I measured. The average number are also with the machine just sitting. Current while playing seemed 10-20% higher. The killer is at startup, so I decided to not switch my circuits and turn each one on individually to avoid tripping the breaker.

    I planned 4 machines per circuit and have not seen any issues. I also planned out the spacing of the outlets so that there was one between each pair of machines.

    Good luck with your build.

    JDH

    #15 10 years ago

    Heh, OK now you guys are bringing up other stuff I have to decide on too. I figuring using 2 duplex outlets (called a quad?) about every 10-12 feet should do 4 machines ( 30 inch backbox times 4 with a little space between them) OR I could just do a duplex (single receptacle) every 5-6 feet to do 2 machines, can't decide. I figured standard height off the floor so you can unplug the machine from underneath if your pulling it out, don't see why you would want the outlets so high off the floor? Then it would be behind the machine which seems impractical?

    #16 10 years ago

    I am talking about some receptacles high off the floor for neon lamps and TV. So you don't have cords hanging down.

    TVs do the same thing. They surge when you first turn them on and draw twice as much power for a few seconds. I am not an electrical engineer but I was told it is because the capacitors haven't filled and smoothed the power yet or something?

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    because the capacitors haven't filled

    Yes. Not necessarily capacitors, but capacitance. And capacitors have a lot of capacitance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current

    #18 10 years ago
    Quoted from NYP:

    I should have also asked if I should use 12 gauge wire or 14. I assumed 12 was the standard for outlets and 14 for lights but I was wrong, the electrician said they use 14 for outlets now and it meets code requirements, but they are only able to put a certain amount on each circuit, that surprised me.

    Whether it is outlets or lights is irrelevant. Your electrician's response surprises me. The general rule of thumb is that 14 gauge is for 15 amp circuits and 12 gauge is for 20 amp circuits.

    You should definitely do 12 gauge.

    Quoted from NYP:

    as I'm the only one there and I'm not worried about someone shutting it off in the middle of the game.

    The way I addressed this concern is I put the switches behind a door (so when the door is open the switches are covered). This way people do not mistake them for light switches. Another option would be to put them higher up so they are not in an ordinary light switch position.

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from NYP:

    Heh, OK now you guys are bringing up other stuff I have to decide on too. I figuring using 2 duplex outlets (called a quad?) about every 10-12 feet should do 4 machines ( 30 inch backbox times 4 with a little space between them) OR I could just do a duplex (single receptacle) every 5-6 feet to do 2 machines, can't decide. I figured standard height off the floor so you can unplug the machine from underneath if your pulling it out, don't see why you would want the outlets so high off the floor? Then it would be behind the machine which seems impractical?

    Check your local code. There is a code on how far apart they are allowed to be.

    #20 10 years ago
    Quoted from daley:

    Whether it is outlets or lights is irrelevant. Your electrician's response surprises me. The general rule of thumb is that 14 gauge is for 15 amp circuits and 12 gauge is for 20 amp circuits.
    You should definitely do 12 gauge.

    The way I addressed this concern is I put the switches behind a door (so when the door is open the switches are covered). This way people do not mistake them for light switches. Another option would be to put them higher up so they are not in an ordinary light switch position.

    You cannot use 14 on a 20 amp circuit. If your electrician says you can you should get another electrician.

    #21 10 years ago

    My mistake explaining, the outlets in other parts of the house are using 14 gauge on 15 amp circuits. The gameroom will have a sub panel using 12 gauge and 20 amp breakers.

    #22 10 years ago

    I hope you guys that are using switched outlets to turn all of your games on at the same time are using extra-heavy-duty "spec grade" switches instead of the 99-cent box store variety (a Leviton 1221-2W, for example). Four or five games on a 20A branch circuit will have a respectable inrush current that would likely toast an el-cheapo switch over time (or pit the contacts enough to start internal arcing and eventual fire or tripping of an AFCI-style breaker).

    #23 10 years ago
    Quoted from NYP:

    My mistake explaining, the outlets in other parts of the house are using 14 gauge on 15 amp circuits. The gameroom will have a sub panel using 12 gauge and 20 amp breakers.

    Now thats better.Just don't feed the panel with 12 awg. A small sub you can feed with 6 awg.

    -1
    #24 10 years ago
    Quoted from hudson2212:

    TSPP was seeing an average just over 3A, but a start up around 6A. STTNG on the other hand was running over 4A, and around 8-9A startup.
    These numbers are off the top of my head, but I believe they are withing a couple percent of what I measured. The average number are also with the machine just sitting. Current while playing seemed 10-20% higher. The killer is at startup, so I decided to not switch my circuits and turn each one on individually to avoid tripping the breaker.
    JDH

    Ron,

    Max amp draw (peak amps) 'usually' occurs at start up, same as an AC unit or refridgerator compressor. I have 12 games on a 20amp circuit (which I plan on breaking down into 4 circuits - only have one or two games playing at a time so I never run into problems, but it's still not the proper setup) but I use time-delay relay switches that allow me to work the room (power all games) off of a single light switch. Once the light switch is flipped the setup powers each machine one by one, each 5-7 seconds apart (you can bring it down to 3 seconds and still be safe). Aside from it preventing a trip of my circuit breaker, it actually looks very nice as the machines power up one by one right down the row. Would especially look nice in your showroom setting.

    #25 10 years ago

    Well that is where the PLC comes in turn them off slowly one at a time.

    Quoted from jadziedzic:

    extra-heavy-duty "spec grade" switches instead of the 99-cent box store variety (a Leviton 1221-2W

    Placing your outlets up high to keep cords off the floor?

    Put in a third circuit if you think two is OK.

    Lamp and lighting placement is critical you don't want glare all over the glass.

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