Help Needed On Gottlieb System80b please

Nearing my wits end on this solenoid 2 issue.

Solenoid 2 controls both the top center hole (listed as Top Hole on schematic) and a flasher (listed as Right Side) on the right of the playfield.

Neither work in gameplay or test mode.

The switch for the center hole works as the score keeps counting up but it never kicks out.

Ohming the coil results in 12.4. Grounding the coil makes it fire. The fuse (F11, 1A Slow Blow) is good as it's also the fuse that controls Solenoid 1 as seen on the schematic (fires the Bottom Hole). In fact, all the fuses in the game are good as I've tested them all more than once at this point.

Drive transistors Q58 and Q57 have been replaced.

Diodes D4 and D3 both tested fine on the 1A19 diode board.

All suggested ground mods have been completed (driver board, mpu, voltage regulator, cabinet grounds to transformer box, aux driver board).

Solenoid 4 controls the skull flasher and also does not work. Both of these are controlled by Z29 on the MPU, a 7416 chip, along with Solenoids 1 and 3, which do work.

Do I replace this chip? Is that the next step? Anyone else have any suggestions.. I'm not sure what else to check here.

First two are playfield pics of the schematic. Third is the Driver board. Fourth is the MPU.

Thanks for any help. Edit: it's a bonebusters in case you havent seen my other posts.

schem3-pfwiring2.JPG schem3-pfwiring.JPG schem2-driverboard.JPG schem1-mpu.JPG

#2 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

First off, (since I don't know this games particular history) never trust any game you've never worked on before to have the original parts still inside. If you bought the game with these problems, this means the previous owner had them too and couldn't fix it. It could have been that there had been severe alkaline damage to the game and the CPU board has been replaced hoping to solve issues and it didn't. With all SS Gottliebs, you have to suspect bad connectors first when individual problems occure (if the CPU is booting).

Try to get the solenoid 2 issue before looking at other problems. Have you checked the connection from the CPU to driver board by using a jumper (with small clips) at the "X" side of resistors R53 (driver board) and R26 (CPU board)?

This connector sometimes causes problems especially if it has been damaged by alkaline from the battery. You can use the same test for all of your problems by using a jumper to bypass the A1J4 to A3J1 interconnect. If the jumper makes anything work, you'll need to rebuild your connector and/or clean the pads.

If the jumper trick doesn't uncover the problem, then I would give a good look at Z29 on the CPU board.

I'll check back later (when I get off work) and see if you've read this.

#3 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

That I have not tried. I'll try this afternoon and report back.

Exactly the idea I needed, thank you.

#4 11 years ago

WIL

jwwhite15

Pinside+ Frequent

13y 105K 2,706 1

Quoted from blownfuse:
This connector sometimes causes problems especially if it has been damaged by alkaline from the battery. You can use the same test for all of your problems by using a jumper to bypass the A1J4 to A3J1 interconnect.

+1, except I would change "sometimes" to "many times".
Two questions, is your wires and diode connected well to the coil? I was troubleshooting an erratic sling coil problem, jumped to ground (good), used other coil voltage (good), jumped switches, (good), the thing was I was using alligator clips and making the diode connection complete...stupid thing was falling off but underneath my line of sight.

Did you do any grounding mods? Since you can ground the coil and it fires it makes me wonder if the ground connection in the bottom of the cab is not good. Something to look at.

It really does not sound like you have a chip problem, I would exhaust all other checks before you go replacing the chip.

BTW: lets not forget to go back to the connection problem...if you can you might want to put new connections on your wires. Good luck and keep us posted.

#5 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

Sweet ground mods are all done.. took quite a while.

I'm going to try bypassing the a1j4 to a3j1 interconnect later today and report back. I've already got a new connector on order, so hopefully if this works then I just have to wait for that and I'll be good. Here's hoping.

groundmods.jpg

#6 11 years ago

KIM

pdman

Inactive member

Boston, MA

14y 26,900 1,362 10

Did you check the ground run on A3J4-10 to make sure that Q58's emitter has a ground?
No ground continuity , no drive for the coil.

Have you monitored R53 with a meter to see if you get the drive voltage to Q57?
When you run the diagnostic test for the coil in question you should see the voltage on R53 go high when it tries to enable the coil circuit.
If it does then check across R55 to see if the voltage goes high here also.

#7 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

jumpered from R53 and R26 and it works!

Sweet. Just have to wait on that new connector now. Thank you all. On to the next item on the punch list.

#8 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Glad it worked for you. What's next?

OP
Quoted from mystic:
jumpered from R53 and R26 and it works!
Sweet. Just have to wait on that new connector now. Thank you all. On to the next item on the punch list.

#9 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

The bottom 4 arrow lamps, which run through an aux board in the cab. The top arrows work but not the bottom. I haven't started troubleshooting yet. And.. Flashers in the skull, but that may fix itself when this new connector arrives. I think that's all that's left...

#10 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Cool! Be sure to clean/re-tin the connector pads before you install the new connector. This would be a must for any of the games (if I don't know the history of it) I have because I don't trust alkaline, it can easily spread from old areas to new once it escapes. An ounce of prevention .....

OP
Quoted from mystic:
The bottom 4 arrow lamps, which run through an aux board in the cab. The top arrows work but not the bottom. I haven't started troubleshooting yet. And.. Flashers in the skull, but that may fix itself when this new connector arrives. I think that's all that's left...

#11 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

Vinegar and water solution? Not used to these pad connectors. Strange the differences between these and Bally/Williams. Even DE game I had wasn't quite as foreign as this one feels.

2 weeks later

#12 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

finally got the new connector.. it was the wrong size and I had to send it back to get the longer one.. anyway, retinned the edge connections on both the mpu and driver board. Hooked it up..... and..

still have the same problems and some new ones, GREAT!

now about 5 controlled lights are locked on as well as the coil which pushes the ball into the shooter lane AND the VUK (sol. 5) no longer works AND the sound is now gone.. wtf.. getting frustrated here and I'm going backwards.. any advice?

#13 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

Alright, for some reason Q3 blew.. replaced it and now the coil that lets the ball go into the shooter lane works fine. Sound started working, the locked on lights aren't locked on anymore. Still have the original solenoid 2 problem and now solenoid 5.

Removed MPU, cleaned off the edge contacts again real good, replaced it. Now the sound is gone again and two DIFFERENT lights are locked on and both transistors for them check out fine.. I think this game doesn't like me very much.

#14 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

Bump for morning and hopefully a happier Friday! Let's fix this thing!

#15 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

System 80 connector issues abound! If the boards are working and do different things each time they are removed/installed, it sounds like connector issues to me. You may need to do a lot more replacement of Molex clips, there may likely be alkaline damage at the crimp to wires that you can't see because of the connector housing. The good part is that this type of problem gets better with every Molex replacement.

Are you sure there wasn't an alkaline leak in the past in that game? Once alkaline gets inside a connector/wire, you have to cut it out and get to fresh wire or it'll never work correctly.

#16 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

The battery was cut out before the game was in my possession but it doesn't appear to have any traces of alkaline damage at all.

Now that doesn't mean maybe there was on an old mpu and then someone replaced the entire mpu without replacing the connectors after a leak...

#17 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

There was a break in the trace on the driver board for sol 2. Fixed it with a jumper so now I've got connectivity but it looks like both mu45 transistors are blown for sol 2 and 5. And of course I have one spare left in the toolbox. The lights and sound are now working 100 % again. Think I'm going to replace sol 2 transistor and see if it kicks and then go from there.

#18 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

We have liftoff.

#19 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Good for you, I knew you'd get it going.

#20 11 years ago

MST

mystic

Inactive member

Yeah I might just get a new driver board anyway to prevent future problems. It's pretty hacked up. Only thing that doesn't work now are the flashers in the skull.

Thanks for your help.

#21 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam