It's not an ironclad fact, but an assertion that makes sense. There was a post a long time ago talking about Mirco's new digital printing setup and it was after hobbit (I wish I had saved the info), so it was implied that Hobbit was screened. The fact that Hobbit playfields were bulletproof just strengthens the case.

But whatever the reality, Mirco has had serious problems with pooling, chipping, ink adhesion and soft clear since jjPotC. You'd think after more than 4 YEARS he could work it out. Others have.

Buthamburg also manufactures the playfield for Pinball Brothers Alien remake.

When you take a look at the various reviews of Alien, despite a SW maturity problem, it's clear it is possible to manufacture Premium level pinball with very high quality standard, numerous equipment, at a reasonable price.

In my opinion, the issue with JJP is simple: it's a margin discussion. Lower the component price as much as you can to increase your margin, at the expense of quality. Maybe they have a contract with Mirco, but I have no doubt that if they wanted they could break it given the numerous quality issues. They don't, because they can live with customer dissatisfaction. And the next pinball release will prove them right. The CE will be all sold out in less than 24h, the LE and Standard will be have a long queue of people waiting, who do not care about playfield quality, or so not read Pinside and other associated media's to be warned about it.

Vote with your wallets folks, as Kaneda has put it. For me, I canceled my GnR order precisely because of this playfield issue. And I don't intend to buy any new JJP until they resolve their quality, regardless of the theme.

Just got my HS2 playfield from Peter, kept me in the loop from day one had pictures send as it progressed.
Out come is a brand new playfield without a mark on it and looks like a mirror.
No issues at all

Yeah I have a NIB JJP and going to sit on it. The fact I need to contemplate and do this tells me I’ll never buy any JJPs or Mirco ever again. It’s tuff because Eric put a lot of work into this pin and I was really looking forward to it. Not tearing the box open on day 1 should tell you something. Kinda sad this great pin went into this direction

…this is honestly hard to read brother, I know since the beginning that you wanted to have this game Chaka

They do amazing work! I've had four of his PF's - still have the HS2 that I need to install. Never had an issue with anything from them!

what is there to contemplate? open it up and enjoy the game. if you get some pooling or chipping around the post you might loose a tiny bit of value on it, but if you bought it before the price increase more than likely you'll get all your money back on it. However- i you wait too long JJP will do the next super special edition and you might lose big time.

Just put rubber washers under double star posts and even less worry. Doubt most purchasers in the future will even care or notice especially if under washers. Not saying it's not an issue they shouldn't fix but if you want the game then enjoy it.

If he's asking at or above market in the future... then it will very much be a source of contention between buyer and seller.
I personally would never accept at market value for a GNR with any cosmetic clear issues - regardless of how minor they are. You know it will be a point of negotiation between that buyer and seller.

I also wouldn't call several hundred to a 1000 dollars a "tiny" amount.

I don't think you're most purchasers.

I do

So you’re saying at sale time, a game with chipped clear will get the same price as a game with a perfect playfield? That seems counterintuitive.

This comment is exactly a demonstration that JJP is absolutely right to continue down this path: whatever they do, they will always find people ready to buy, whatever the quality level. So they improve their margin, customer get lower quality products but are still fine with it.

Until JJP is hurt where it matters, ie their wallet, they have absolutely no incentive to change their behaviour. And unfortunately, I believe that while the majority of those reading this thread (with a few notable exceptions) will avoid JJP in the future, many others either don't read this thread or simply don't care, and will not really worry about it.

Would I be unpopular if I posted my opinion that there are people on here with stable play fields thousands of plays later after bulletproofing ? I will add myself to this club once mine arrives. I know it's not what people want or expect, me included, and extra work bulletproofing doesn't appear to be avoidable but the issues do appear to be preventable proven by those on pinside that follow the bulletproofing... and like thousands of others, I want this pin! So go in eyes wide open and expectations set properly. Will it affect future purchases for JJP? Undoubtedly yes. So some of you can sleep better at night knowing it does affect their reputation but so far not their sales. I've seen plenty of people on here post they decided to cancel their order because of it. Their pin will just go to somebody else. JJP monetarily will be left unfazed in the shuffle.

You're right. The many others that don't read the thread or don't care or don't worry about it should be emphasized as many, many more others.
Otherwise known as the majority.

Coming up on a year later since release JJP still working on getting through producing and shipping October orders with current LE. Amazing.

Numbers on license plates just now breaking into the 2000s on the line which is approaching half of their planned 5,000 production In a little less than a year.

It just indicates the staggering amount of orders they have received in October alone. It looks to be that with some fuzzy math they will have enough orders to reach 5,000 on this pin since JJP announced playfields will be available for purchase at the end of the run they estimated to be summer of 2022 which is about a year from now.

If they do reach 5,000, Is this a record? Has any other pin been set at a 5,000 unit run and completed it? Maybe a newb question, dunno.

Most machines made before 2000 have their production run listed on their game page. Eg. Tz is 20k.

The only record they are breaking is the number of defective machines in one run.

Lol. Might be something all can agree on!

20k! Wow.
Thanks for the info.

Oh jesus christ. I didn't even know about that. o_O

Damn.gif
This was so good, savage destruction.

Not in my experience. I've rarely had someone so much as inspect a machine in any detail. Their mind is pretty much made up by the time they drive out to me. Let alone actually pull the glass and study the playfield. Either they know of the issues with the game already and accept it may have post/clear issues or they don't and it doesn't matter. If the visible playfield is intact they are happy.

Exactly. People still want pinball. More than the manufacturers (well, many of them) can or will even produce. So if you really want a GnR then you have one manufacturer and a limited number of games to purchase. If some washers will band aid enough to not absolutely trash the playfield then most people have their answer. Not enough people talking with their wallets since games keep selling out. If we start seeing CEs sitting around because people don't want to fork the cash over for a bad playfield then we have something. Until the tipping point the manufacturers with these issues have little reason to change. The negative sentiment on pinside is obviously not a representation of the majority of pinball purchases.

Please tell all of us all how you bulletproof Pooling, Chipping, soft clearcoat, digital art adhesion ect ect.

If you ever do this again, please for the love of god invite me over so I can have a good chuckle. Not at you, but at the absurdity of the whole thing.

Point absolutely taken. But what about professional pride?

Corporations and investors take pride in the numbers.

If you're correct that the problem is 100% fixable with appropriate bullet-proofing, that'll be a huge relief for people buying in (and presumably for JJP, who could just implement those same cheap fixes at the factory and shut down all the complaining). I hope you're right!

The answer of how to bulletproof is in a key post documented by fooflighter who implemented those measures and now at 1700 plays. zaphX is at more plays than that with similar measures. There are others.
JJP themselves are obviously reading pinside and took to implementing some (not all) of these petg washers as safety measures on production line around June or July and PanzerFreak who has been tracking, had stated we have very low concentration of issues in latest July/August builds.

Fixable, that depends on what you're talking about but I like words like pooling and playfield issues around the posts are preventable and mitigated and avoidable with the proper steps mentioned above

Doing what you can to bulletproof is in no way an actual fix. The problem is still there underneath even if you can prevent the worst of the damage from happening. Will this clear ever adhere or cure properly? What do those playfields look like underneath the washers after 2000 plays? I'd be worried about what you might find under there and in fact would be worried about stripping the game for a good cleaning/shopping in case something stuck to the washers. Hopefully they used a soft washer with a perfect amount of torque and the game had the flipper strength on the wimpy factory setting for its whole life. Basically this whole thing is a beta test on real games paid for in full price by real customers.

Who is ready to test their game for 2000 plays without any washers? I recently bought a JP Premium. I made sure to find one with a new build date in Spring 2021, because I don't want to chance getting one from back when Stern had clear coat issues. Maybe some people don't care, but to me the game is more valuable knowing I don't have to worry about the clear.

The key to me here is: as long as the game comes with washers from the factory, they are admitting that the playfield process and/or clearcoat are defective. Whether they publicly acknowledge that or not doesn't matter as long as the washers are there and people are afraid to play the game with them off knowing there is basically no chance it won't result in damage.

fixable/ bulletproofing? The playfield defects?
I think not . Here is a few photos of my CE and the washer kit i got from my Distro being JJP after emailing me they were sending them did not, Then the Guy in charge there went on vacation while i was awaiting the Package in the mail. Month later no washer kit. My Distro Contacts them and Tells him they are now out of washers , You will get nothing. Great Customer service aye?
The game is Beautiful ,the play is great but the JJP Customer support End of the Company is pure Shit . Had to Ask several times just for a record decal so i could tighten the Record assembly before it came off from loosening only after 200 games. That is all it took to ruin the Artwork as well without Additional washers or whatever they claim will fix it, Then you read here it does not fix anything just like John I just posted ..
A Shame that such a Costly part such as a playfield is not warrantied For poor craftsmanship like this.
The washer kit i got does not even cover all the art lost , even if i try and wiggle the washer one way or the other.. This will most likely get worse in my opinion.
The Taking the post off the problem also made it worse as the clearcoat was sticking to the metal post washer that was there so if you are doing it without wear be very carefull taking it off to try and repair with this Mundane washer kit

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I'd arrest that chipping with clear nail polish and let it dry thoroughly before putting the washer on and putting the post back.

hmnn. damn . i did not do that . Just put the stuff on and tightened it... Seems playing with the Factory product parts is not what JJP wants and blames us for this Defect . If i let it be ,more chips of artwork will flake off. Seems the clear held to the art work , but the artwork did not stick to the Playfield . Not sure how clear nail polish will help. Any thoughts to why you think it better than that of the Washer holding the clear onto the Playfield at least whats left .?

Nail polish or super glue is the common suggestion for peeling art/clear. I think super glue especially will seal the surface, reattach clear to wood and prevent further delimitation of the coatings from the wood. If you take your time it is unnoticeable and is a bit of insurance as a longer term fix.

Clear nail polish will do more than nothing. I've used it for years on playfields that had this kind of issue. Easier to handle than superglue, which is the other recommendation for this kind of case, but you have to give the nail polish time to dry.

Using nothing will give the clear the opportunity to spread. It's like not taking care of a crack in your windshield. That crack has a good chance of becoming a much larger problem.

If Dutch Pinball can afford to (slowly) send people a WHOLE GAME to make good for the previous Big Lebowski buyers you'd think JJP could do whatever needed to make things right.

Will the clear eventually harden and stick to the washers?

Pinfever just said a few posts up that's what happened on his.

Isn’t Mirco doing TLB playfields? Are there reports of PF damage on those?

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Firefly is one of my all time favorite shows. Fckers had the nerve to cancel it. &$@$!

before and after removing post to fix . Yes if you wait to long ,somehow the Factory clear with plays and a non moving very tight post will somehow cause it to pool and chip and stick to bottom of the metal washer at the post, i recommend immediate removal before play 1 . Do what you can to save this from happening to you unless you feel like throwing another 500 + on a new playfield down the line if artwork flacking away is going to bother you. If you do not mind the self destruction .Do nothing and play this Very addictive one more play game till it looks like a whitewood

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these Pteg washers are too thick imho

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looks like sheet for a 200 games played NIB one owner pin doesn't it? But won't sell it for 30k. May be the last game i sell of my collection

I've purchased 6 JJP games, the 6th being GnRLE (not in my possession yet). I'm very concerned with these playfield issues. I'm following this thread closely.

Maybe mirco should start using nailpolish?

Don't give him any ideas.

So a GnR owner has an opinion on the playfield supplier to JJP and the supplier does not agree and pretty much threatens the the guy for stating an opinion…..and an opinion that has some evidence to possibly validate reasons for his opinion.

If the response from the playfield supplier is true JJP should be checking with their lawyers and have an ethics check and dissolve their business relationship immediately and source another supplier. I am not saying that would fix the playfield issues but why would anyone want to do business with a company that displays poor ethics. If JJP continues to do business with the current playfield supplier that also shows where JJP’s ethics are and support that behavior and approach to customer issues/complaints.

What a fckn' mess
I could not care less how great this game is - I have zero desire to own it and deal with this aggravation

Yup, TBL playfields are made by Micro.

I guess we got lucky, none of the owners reported any playfield damage. I have one and there are zero issues with the playfield. I remember reading that DP ordered a bunch of new playfields a time ago, i would be very careful ordering a TBL now since the playfields by Micro are complete shit.

If I got the machine with playfield flaws like I see in this topic the machine would have been shipped STRAIGHT back to DP. I dont care how good the theme is, for 10k+ plus this is unacceptable.

I mean, you cant be THAT concerned if you bought it knowing it will most likely fail on you.

Fail? These issues are purely cosmetic, and the game play itself does not fail. Semantics, yes, but I think proper perspective is important too.

Plan A
proper steps and care IN THE BEGINNING, they are optimistically avoidable per testimonies.

Plan B
Inspect often, Caught early, usually fixable, or repairable.

plan C
you have a pinside user who has taken high resolution art scans of the playfield which you could print and overlay just the small area with damage that occurred. I couldn't begin to imagine how to properly accomplish this but that's the concept and I'd rely on others for implementing / process.

Plan D
buy a new $500 playfield next year and keep it as insurance for the time if you ever do want to sell . And meanwhile, it's cool wall art.

Enjoy your game.