Following.

The issue there is really clear...there's no washers lol.

I used a Temporary black plastic washer while waiting for a order for the PET washers from a part supplier. After 6 weeks and not very tight, the temp washer made a impression. It did iron out the bulge it had. This is a very soft clear

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I like the rubber/silicone/neoprene washers. I've used them on all my JJP games and we've sold quite a lot of kits with those washers, double star posts and PETG washers for the top/sling protection and hadn't heard any issues.

I was talking about the complaint that people are giving advice and conjecture and don't know what they are talking about. Sure he cares if people are slandering his company, however since this is a written forum, it might be libel. We can theorize and postulate all we want, but to claim ALL negative info towards his company needs taken down is like trying to drive a tack with a shotgun. Truly libelous statements have a list of factors that have to be met to make them actionable by US law, but the principle parties are not in the US, so I'll let another armchair EU lawyer pick up that gauntlet.

I laughed a bit too hard at this … thank you!!

I wonder at what point Mirco would be in breech of contract with JJP.

I think we all have the right to our opinions on the quality of both JJP and Mirco after seeing the posted photos of the damage that these playfields are experiencing. You cant sue me for saying their quality is not up to basic pinball standards. That standard being a playfield that doesn't start to chip, flake and fall off after only 200 games. Lets get real. If customers don't proactively work on their NIB machine, installing washers THEY had to buy, then there is a likelihood, if not a certainty that some portion of this customer base will experience what we have seen posted here. As a counterpoint, in the CGC owner threads, I have complained about dimpling. I don't expect CGC to do anything about it especially suing me for defamation. I own a CGC machine, it is dimpled, and I can tell anyone I want that I think that is not good. You can't silence people being vocal about bad quality by threatening a defamation lawsuit. There is ample evidence from what I have seen to support anybody who would claim there is a problem with quality.

Please obtain legal advice from your lawyer. Random people on the internet are not your lawyer. I wish you luck. Highclasspinball also threatened greatwichjohn with legal action and turned out to full of BS.

Don't take legal advice from random strangers on an internet forum because we all hope you're right and we bear none of the risk.

Well there is always this.

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Highclasspinball needs to be banned from Pinside for bullying innocent pinsiders with aggressive PMs. He honestly deserved the negative press for building these PFs in the first place.
That said; I'm guessing there really isn't a violation against rules ... except "Be nice"... but probably not a ban-able offence.

Someone at JJP needs to
Come get their boy. Gary doesn’t let his kids play here.

Struth mate, you spit the dummy, don’t like Pommies?. You had an argument with your Sheila?
Put a pair of sunnies on, go walkabout, relax with a few tinnies

Not sure of the laws in Europe but Law 101 in the US for defense against libel/defamation is Truth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_truth

“Under the United States law, a statement cannot be held to be actionable as slanderous or libelous if the statement is true; the substantial truth doctrine extends this protection by holding that a statement with "slight inaccuracies of expression" do not make the alleged libel false”

Regardless, the real damages to Mirco is Steffan himself. He’s cause irreparable damage to his own brand with this DM. I think he should actually apologize if he wants to do business here. Is there anybody that is going to buy a Micro after reading that note? CPR are cracking champagne rn

We all read it. Props to you for showcasing this asshat. We’ll all pretty much knew, but this was the nail in the coffin for Mirco. JJP is tied to this so not a good look for both

With all due respect, I would recommend that you take action before. As noted by this other Pinsider, seek legal advice to see exactly whether Mirco is entitled to anything, and if so what you can do to mitigate damages before action is taken by the other party.

Your house insurance might have a "legal advice" clause for example (mine does), which will allow you to get at a minimum some basic guidance on this without shelling money. Or maybe your bank has something equivalent as part of your contract.

To me (I'm not a lawyer, but my mother was, and so is my syster - although in a different field than what we're discussing here), finding evidence of the fact that PF used in JJP pinballs are faulty is not relevant to your case. Mirco attacked your statements, and that's what you need to focus on, ie can any of the statement you made be marked as libel. Proving that there are hundreds of faulty playfield out there will not change anything if indeed your statement is deemed as libel. In particular, the statement on the contract between Mirco and JJP, which when read it like this is not backed by any source, as opposed to your technical analysis where you provided ample pictures and data.

But as the other pinsider stated, none of us are lawyer in this field (which law would apply as a matter of fact, Netherlands or Germany ?), so best to take preventive measures and seek councel.

Regards

No matter, it’s all over Kaneda’s FB.
You should message K-dog, he’s been threatened with all sorts of BS from these companies.
They don’t have a leg to stand on.

The person making claims is Dutch, Mirco is.. German? Pinside is run by a few Dutch guys? I doubt any Dutch or German judge is going to even bother about claims/assumptions made by an end user about possible contracts or possible manufacturing processes.

Also, you can form a reasonable idea about the amount of playfields are made in the market every year and therefore of a playfield company turnover which would be a few million EUR. I have yet to see a similar sized manufacturer who takes a customer to court because of claims made on a forum. It’s just not going to happen.

Pinside can delete his comments if they wish to do so, it’s a private website after all. I doubt this would be sensible, as there are dozens if not hundreds of examples/photos on Pinside showing the playfield issues. It must surely be possible to discuss those otherwise it would be pointless to have a forum.

If anything, it should be Mirco/JJP who should be worried about European consumer law.

It's such a shame. I love my JJP POTC and have been comparatively lucky with the playfield, but seeing how JJP and now Mirco have handled the whole GnR issue has been incredibly off-putting. Toy Story is something of a dream theme for me, but even if the rumours are true I just don't know if I can roll the dice after seeing how poorly this situation has been handled.

Oh and the threats to sue are pretty funny. Looks like someone is throwing his toys out of the pram.

all we want to do is shot the shots, get the multiball and put our initials on the high score table - but we have to put up with the sort of crap that JJP, Deeproot and Mirco hits us with. How did it get to this?

Ha Ha , you've got your Aussie downpat

Fucken hilarious , good luck with everything .

Between Jack's and Mirco's comments, it makes me feel all warm and giddy about buying the next JJP pin
Was trying to buy a GNR CE as my first JJP pin, can't begin to tell you how happy I am that I could not get one!!!!!!!!!

I have a GNRCE sitting in a box. No clue if I should open it or sell it. I have bought every single JJP game. I am so sick of the playfield BS. The worry isn’t worth the purchase at this point. I have never had an issue with AP or CGC. The whole I have to beg and send pictures and blah blah blah for a new playfield that should have been 100% good out of the box is getting old.

AMSNL,

Despite what my previous posts may imply, I am totally with you on this one.

Kaneda had some choice words to say on this one.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0u2RdRc5DTLBVJtzfYNoQR?si=CUOi-Mr7RIy7_IKEuHgLZg&dl_branch=1

I agree with a few items Kaneda brought up. Why on earth is a supplier for JJP doing any communications with the end customer. Shouldn't have this been rectified through JJP?

Imagine you bought a new high end Dell computer that turned out to have a faulty NVIDIA card in it. Does the company that sold you the computer (Dell) reach out to NVIDIA to get things right for you or do they tell you to take it up with NVIDIA?

Good luck to you sir.

Deeproot taking notes.

I personally would not seek legal advice, even if I had a lawyer on retainer already. This is an empty threat made by a desperate bully. I would not spend a single Dollar or Euro. You have done exactly what I would have done, posted it so other can share in the chuckle. I don't live in fear of dumbasses on the internet.

If I got that PM I’d tell him to suck a phatty

With as much as CE's can go for I say list it at $23,000, "settle" if you have to for $20k and then buy a latest build LE for close to free. The latest build LE's don't appear to have any playfield issues and have all of the latest fixes. CE's on the other hand were built much earlier and while some are ok a portion seem to have playfield issues.

LOL - I don't know anyone who'd pay 23k for a GNR CE unless it was a "friend" of an absurdly rich person who doesn't care what it cost. Though rich people hate being taken advantage of by price jackers and retaliate they do.

You would be surprised, $20k NIB is very possible.

Most of the "Playfield Issues" I've seen have been around poorly designed hardware and fasteners on the JJP side.
Not sure I'll ever buy a JJP again. Certainly not Toy Story.. Just not into it.

Mirco quicksilver playfield, pic from a well respected restorer.

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your Loss . aside from bad Customer service and JJP lying to people saying we did this to our games by just hitting play and putting under 100 games on it while rubbers fall off and Coils overheat and Servo Assemblies break apart and Posts are Pooling and chipping the GNR CE is the greatest game i ever bought / Micro and JJP can eat a D%$#

Nobody:

Everybody looking at the playfield pictures on ANY GnR for sale ad:

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lmfao

I contacted Jersey Jack over five months ago over my Willy Wonka CE it has pooling and chipping everywhere I was asked to send pictures so I did not a single response back since then I was also looking forward to the toy story because my grandson is a big fan of the movies but after dealing with this I’ve decided I will never get another jersey Jack regardless of what the theme is so recently I put my money down on a Halloween CE spooky seems like they care more about customer service and Quality that to me is enough to take a chance with this company as it will be my first spooky I have also had issues with two of my Stearns with chipping they however sent me a replacement playfield for both of them did not hassle me only asked for pictures even though it did take a while to get them I still received them without cost after paying almost $13,000 for a game for them to ask you to pay for a new playfield is just ridiculous sorry if it cost them money but it should not be chipping out of the box my ww ce also did not come with a power cord nor coin box
slingshot plastics balls or anything else that was supposed to come with it also had chipping in the wood in the cabinet under the back glass along with messed up art blades
And a dent in the side rail Lock down bar and scratches in the back glass they were nice enough to send me out replacements on the back glass and lock down bar And art blades so I guess they figured that was good enough the rest is my problem

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That is a fine decision for you to make, knowing your risk tolerance.

Will you agree to pay all of AMSNL legal costs if they have to defend themselves or are ordered to pay damages for something we all think is stupid?
If so, put it in writing.
If not, that's why you don't take legal advice from random people on the internet.

I should hire a lawyer to draft an agreement that if he needs a lawyer in the event Mirco gets a lawyer to sue him I will pay for said lawyer and his lawyer, because an asshat sent a PM about a post on Pinside?! This is why I don't take advice legal or otherwise from the internet. I am not giving legal advice, I talking shit (my worthless opinion) on the internet. As I previously posted I would not spend a a single Dollar or Euro if this was in my own defense, why the hell would I pay for someone else? LOL

Why did the restorer cause that damage? With a special device, called a washer, that would never have occurred. lol

More like this, with their pinball buddies…

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Mirco lost me as a potential customer back when he decided to deceptively put the Diamond Plate logo on his repro FunHouse playfields, despite being advised against it on RGP at the time.

Only a couple hundred early FHs had it, if that.