(Topic ID: 141508)

Help Me Understand Blanking Logic (Solenoid Lock-Ons) - SOLVED

By wxforecaster

8 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 8 years ago

    I have learned more about electronics and logic in the past two weeks than I could have ever imagined, while trying to troubleshoot this Whirlwind System 11B MPU.

    OK, so when I turn on the machine, I'm getting a condition where ALL of the solenoids at 1J21 are locking on -- or they don't work at all (there are similar other issues with groups of solenoids and no music). I used Leon's chips and a series of manual tests in diagnostic mode with various solenoids to confirm that the PIA chips are sending the proper signal when called for by the CPU, and all of the transistors/GATE chips are performing correctly.

    The odd behavior I'm seeing in this case, doesn't correlate with MD0 through MD4 at PIA U42 (the signal outputs for the 5 solenoids), but rather at the downstream U1 74LS374 chip on the sound solenoid overlay board, where the flip-flop outputs are connecting to a clock and the blanking circuit (output control).

    1.) In the case of both lock on and non-working states (using attract mode as an example) the input pins are correctly HI (disabled). The output control (pin 1), associated with the blanking signal input, probes LO which is correct.

    2.) According to page 83 in the Whirlwind manual, the clock signal is comprised from a bunch of logic chip switches on a 74LS332 chip coming from signals MD5, MD6, MD7 and MCB2 off of PIA U42 on the MPU (MD0 through MD4 are the solenoids). While the clock signal appears to probe "HI" in both the working and non-working states, I observed that some of these input signals are HI in the non-working state and pulsing in the LOCKED-ON state.

    3.) Here's where it gets strange. In the case of the non-working state, the input (D) pins are high and the output pins are high (makes sense). In the case of the locked-on solenoids, the input is high and the output is low -- which trips all the downstream transistors.
    How can I have a HI input (D) and a LO output (Q) at each set of pins on U1, unless the chip was somehow "locked" in that state?

    Am I also reading the spec right that some of these signals are actually coming not only from 1J21 (U42) on the MPU but also from U4 on the sound solenoid overlay board, with the direction controlled by pin 1 on U4 (DIR)? I'm noticing this pin (which also correlates to MCB2) is changing signals on the differing solenoid states.

    I'm like 100% certain the U1/U4 chip on the sound solenoid overlay is good because this board works in another game. So, I'm left to figure out what's going on with these other signals and how they are supposed to read. I'm not getting any errors at boot up, so am I correct that it's not a ROM issue?

    #2 8 years ago
    Quoted from wxforecaster:

    2.) According to page 83 in the Whirlwind manual, the clock signal is comprised from a bunch of logic chip switches on a 74LS332 chip coming from signals MD5, MD6, MD7 and MCB2

    In the bleary manual on IPDB it looks like MD6,7 & 8 and MCB2 generate the clock signal.

    Quoted from wxforecaster:

    While the clock signal appears to probe "HI" in both the working and non-working states, I observed that some of these input signals are HI in the non-working state and pulsing in the LOCKED-ON state.

    I think all those Data lines as well as the clock should be pulsing during normal game-up operation.

    Quoted from wxforecaster:

    How can I have a HI input (D) and a LO output (Q) at each set of pins on U1, unless the chip was somehow "locked" in that state?

    If I'm correct, and those data lines should be pulsing, if they are stuck HI or LO the outputs are going to be wonky.

    Quoted from wxforecaster:

    Am I also reading the spec right that some of these signals are actually coming not only from 1J21 (U42) on the MPU but also from U4 on the sound solenoid overlay board, with the direction controlled by pin 1 on U4 (DIR)? I'm noticing this pin (which also correlates to MCB2) is changing signals on the differing solenoid states.

    Again, if I understand correctly, everywhere that "D0" appears on the schematic is electronically tied together as if it were the same point in a circuit. I don't know if that's what you were asking, but it sounded like it.

    I don't know if any of this will help, but maybe it'll get someone smarter than me involved....

    #3 8 years ago

    WOW I got this solved. Totally pissed. However, in this "fun" process I became an expert at schematics, logic chips, circuitry, flow, and could probably fix any System 11B board haha.

    So this Whirlwind had two issues that I thought were related,
    1.) Sound Overlay Solenoids all locked on at startup or never worked at all
    2.) The music/speech didn't work, but the second test for the sounds all worked.

    This board had prior battery corrosion, but it was neutralized, the traces looked OK, and all pinned out OK with continuity.
    I replaced U42 (unnecessarily) -- although was on the right track.
    I replaced the blanking circuit (unnecessarily) -- thinking it was a timing issue.
    I replaced SRC 1 and 3 (possibly necessary in the corroded area.
    I took all the boards except the MPU up to the arcade. Everything swapped into another Whirlwind worked perfectly, meaning both the solenoid and sound problems HAD to be with the MPU.
    I purchased Leon's TEST ROM and everything checks out perfectly at the PIAs. WTF.

    Last night I was using the sound solenoid overlay board (per the original post) to try knocking out the bizzarre lock on issue. I knew the problem was with the MPU, but I figured I'd work backwards. Per the initial post, I couldn't figure out how the U1 74LS374 chip was ending up in a "locked" state when the clock signal was HI. After reading the data sheet again, it kept talking about the clock going low to high in transition, which got me thinking this morning that maybe it's supposed to be pulsing.

    MD0-4 coming off pins 3-7 on 1J21 on the MPU are the solenoids, while MD5,6 and 7 (pins 8,9,10 on 1J21) drive connect via ribbon cable to 5J2 on the sound solenoid overlay board. MD5/6/7 all control both the clock on U1 and are also somehow used at U20 to work with the sound board.

    Oddly enough, when I probed all the pins on 5J2 last night, I made an annotation next to pin10 (MD7) because the probe read HI, but it was "fuzzy" sounding as if there was a subtle pulse in there. AHA!!! I checked it again just now and sure enough, it's bizzare.

    OK, back to the MPU. MD7 comes from U42, pin 17, which is PULSING CLEANLY!! I then check SRC pack 1, pin 9 next in line (which I had replaced last week). CLEAN. I check 1J21 pin 10. CLEAN. I check the other end of the ribbon cable at pin 10. HI and scratchy. ARE YOU F--KING KIDDING ME?!!

    The problem: A bad ribbon cable. I jumped 1J21 pin 10 to 5J2 pin 10 and now all the music speech works perfectly and the solenoids behave perfectly!!

    Lesson Learned: Logic probe signals should be clean - LO, HI, PULSE. I'm not sure how I could have saved any time here. None of my other games used a 20-pin ribbon cable to borrow from. In this case the test ROM passed, no errors with the game ROM, which despite my thinking the issue was at the PIA , pointed to something else. One would have easily suspected the corroded area, and despite confirmations of a strong continuity signal across the MPU traces, I replaced parts that looked suspect (probably good to get rid of the corrosion anyways). After that I used the game manual to understand the flow to the solenoids, and noticed that 74LS374 appeared "locked" in the turn on state, which is not how a flip-flop chip should behave. I noticed that the MD7 signal seemed off, and the key to all of this was the logic probe. After noticing the LS374 clock and the music were joined at that MD7 signal, it was then finding out how I was going from strong pulse to "scratchy hi".

    #4 8 years ago

    Congrats on getting it working--don't see any reason to be pissed. Seems like you did a good job of troubleshooting.

    Please share your story in the Logic Probe Guide (especially about the fuzzy sound--a real world example of why you want to pay attention to the audio not just the led's).

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes

    #5 8 years ago
    Quoted from terryb:

    Congrats on getting it working--don't see any reason to be pissed. Seems like you did a good job of troubleshooting.
    Please share your story in the Logic Probe Guide (especially about the fuzzy sound--a real world example of why you want to pay attention to the audio not just the led's).
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes

    Will do. I've actually had this probe for over 2 years ago, and it was still new in the package. Never had to use it until this project. It was a god-send and stupid-easy to use.

    1 week later
    #6 8 years ago

    Glad you posted the details and solution so well!

    I was in a somewhat similar case/issue with an old System 6 game where sometimes you would turn it on and all of the solenoids would fire at the same time...poor slow blow fuse could take only a couple hits of that before toasting up. I could be wrong as it was some time ago and I had a couple fixes up in the air but I believe the main cure was re-pinning the male header and female connector at point 3J6 on the power supply. I swear it seems 80% of the issues for these machines comes down to connectors. The main culprit I believe was the fact that the power to the blanking circuit was run on a single wire from the PSU to the MPU; being opposed by the three 5V wires that went to the MPU.

    #7 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeWarp1:

    Glad you posted the details and solution so well!
    I was in a somewhat similar case/issue with an old System 6 game where sometimes you would turn it on and all of the solenoids would fire at the same time...poor slow blow fuse could take only a couple hits of that before toasting up. I could be wrong as it was some time ago and I had a couple fixes up in the air but I believe the main cure was re-pinning the male header and female connector at point 3J6 on the power supply. I swear it seems 80% of the issues for these machines comes down to connectors. The main culprit I believe was the fact that the power to the blanking circuit was run on a single wire from the PSU to the MPU; being opposed by the three 5V wires that went to the MPU.

    Blanking failures in sys3-6 games are typically at / around the interconnection between the MPU and driver. Blanking looks for PIA activity to stimulate a timer circuit. If there is no activity the blanking goes low.

    When the solenoids all pulse at power up in sys 3-6 it is usually p37 of the interconnect is open causing the pullup resistor to always pull that line high even when the blanking circuit is supposed to be holding it low during power on reset delay.

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