(Topic ID: 295177)

Help Me Save this System 11B CPU Board

By Elicash

2 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by HarrieD
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Hello All,

I am working on a saving a REALLY bad shape Whirlwind. Game appears to have been left in a barn or a field. Tons of rust. A total disaster. My approach has been to work through the boards first to see if I can save them. I am a hobbyist, not an expert.

Thus far, I am happy to report I can get the board to boot on the bench. I replaced sockets for EPROM and all the PIA chips. I am now trying to get the display to work so I can troubleshoot through the traditional test report menus on system 11 games. I should note - I have a 100% working Taxi that I am using as a test fixture.

I have hit my first roadblock trying to get the display to work. Attached pic is what is coming up. Any idea where on the board to try to fix this garbled text?

Based on the schematics, I know that PIA's at U41 and U42 control the display. I have socketed and replaced both of these. I have used a logic probe and compared both of these to my working Taxi CPU so I know they are working.

What is the next step to fix this display output?

display (resized).jpgdisplay (resized).jpg
#2 2 years ago

More info and pics of the board -

I cut off the original battery pack (with batteries still attached) and there appeared to be no leaking.

I am also finding the thru-holes and traces are very clean and intact when I remove/replace IC chips. I am buzzing all traces out after socketing the chips to confirm my work.

So I dont think it has alkaline corrosion. There is some corrosion in the switch matrix part of the board (pics) that you can see. I think this is more oxidation from being exposed to the elements than alkaline corrosion. But I obviously have not got to the switch matrix portion of this salvage without the display working.

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#3 2 years ago

Based upon all of the chips socketed under the battery pack I'd say this board had heavy battery "pollution" that was cleaned and repopulated.

You should be able to compare the logic signals at the PIA with the pins on the display header. They go through several SRCs but they don't alter the signal. If you get another signal at the hear then the srcs affected may need to be replaced

#4 2 years ago

Thanks Cheddar, yes all of those sockets you see are my work. I was shotgun replacing several IC chips that I likely didn't need to replace. I later realized that the factory installed ROM sockets were the culprit preventing boot up.

Looking at the schematic, those SRC's appear to be the only component in line with the PIA and the display header. Would that mean this is the likely culprit for the garbled display?

Is this a common component? I looked up by part number on Marco Specialties and cannot find it. According to manual it is a

SIP, 9R, 10 pin, 2.7K ohm, 470 pfd,

Anyone know a good lead on these?

Are there other board components that would affect the scrambled display?

schem (resized).jpgschem (resized).jpg
#5 2 years ago

It can be a bad display too. Can you test this in taxi? You should be able to find the replacement SRCs at great plains.

Don't replace them until you know they are bad. The logic probe should give you the same value on the header pin that it does at the pia pin that drives that signal. If it doesn't then check the signal at the src that is in between them.

The SRC is just a set of resistors. Use a DMM to test the resistance. Black on the common ground and red on each pin.

#6 2 years ago

The display is the one in the working Taxi so I know the display and display board are 100% good.

Update - I moved both CPU boards to my bench power supply. I am just going thru the PIA's associated with display and comparing them from working board to non working board, came up with this discrepency

PIA U42
pins 10-17
Taxi (working board): Logic probe buzzes 'Low'
Whirlwind (project board): Logic probe buzzes 'High'

I am no expert with logic probe, but trying to compare these two identical boards has been my approach.

Again, the PIA in the Whilrwind board is brand new.

Any other areas of the board I should trouble shoot?
cpu2 (resized).jpgcpu2 (resized).jpgpia (resized).jpgpia (resized).jpg

#7 2 years ago

Are you running a test rom for your tests? That would be the only way to compare apples to apples here

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Are you running a test rom for your tests? That would be the only way to compare apples to apples here

To piggy back n this, taxi and WW operate their displays in very different ways. Taxi actually doesn’t have a full alpha numeric display along the bottom. It has just a numeric display. The left over strobes and segments are used to drive the jackpot display.

Garbled displays can also be caused by bad ribbon cables and dirty connectors. I’d look there first.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

Garbled displays can also be caused by bad ribbon cables and dirty connectors. I’d look there first.

My suggestion too is to replace the ribbon cable for the display. I've seen many of them going bad lately.

#10 2 years ago

Watching this to find a final solution…

#11 2 years ago

First: get yourself a test rom (LEON's test ROM) and place the CPU board on the bench (NEVER EVER in the pinball machine with the testrom mounted).

You should now see every PIA output toggling HIGH and LOW every second.

Also: that 74154 is part of the display circuit. You should check that as well. (But is probably working fine as this is a counted for the 16 digits on the display and that seems to working correctly).

#12 2 years ago

The output discrepancie for your taxi is due to the fact that those pins you mentioned supply data to the display in the backbox. So you can forget about that.

Is the rest working fine? Is the machine coming in attract mode? Can you maybe even start a game?

**Edit, sorry the above info in not correct. Please discard, the backbox display is connected to the main display**

The RC pack can be exchanged for a simple resister pack. You will miss one pin though, these are 9 pin packs. Pin 10 will be left open (ground).

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