(Topic ID: 120977)

Help me repair a new Pinsider's Bally Star Trek

By futurepinhead

9 years ago


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  • 63 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by dothedoo
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

I was at the Louisville show and there was a guy from my area that was asking for help getting a game up and running, mostly needing help looking for parts. I went there and it seems fairly simple to get it all turned on and see what else if anything is wrong.

It is a Bally Star Trek, pretty decent condition. Hasn't been turned on in over 20 years but looks fairly complete. All of the plungers are rusted and their part numbers are not listed in the manual online. Can someone help me track those down? This will be flippers, slingshots, pop bumpers, there was I believe a saucer kickout, and the knocker. The Pinsider was thinking about looking into cleaning them and buffing them but it might be easier to replace them. What are your thoughts?

Also, he is missing the mounting bracket/CPU stand offs. Where is the best place to find those?

The drop target assembly was disassembled but I think we figured out how to get it all put back together. Would someone please post some photos of theirs please. I have worked on a Ground Shaker before and I believe they are identical.

I will post pictures in a reply since I have them saved on my phone. THanks for any help.

#2 9 years ago

Also missing a pin on the end of the drop target assembly

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#3 9 years ago

Oh and the bracket for the plunger on the drop target assembly and spring. I don't know what that calls for either.

#4 9 years ago

Here's a Bally parts catalog for the game, which might help with identifying parts: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1979-1/index.html

#5 9 years ago

I have a parts catalog for this machine. It's got some pretty sick detail. Great illustrations of sub-assemblies too.

I also have a Bally Star Trek... so, I can take photos.

faz

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Here's a Bally parts catalog for the game, which might help with identifying parts: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1979-1/index.html

Anyone have this in PDF format? It is not paginated correctly and makes me go OCD. I can fix the page order.

Andrew

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

I was at the Louisville show and there was a guy from my area that was asking for help getting a game up and running, mostly needing help looking for parts. I went there and it seems fairly simple to get it all turned on and see what else if anything is wrong.
It is a Bally Star Trek, pretty decent condition. Hasn't been turned on in over 20 years but looks fairly complete. All of the plungers are rusted and their part numbers are not listed in the manual online. Can someone help me track those down? This will be flippers, slingshots, pop bumpers, there was I believe a saucer kickout, and the knocker. The Pinsider was thinking about looking into cleaning them and buffing them but it might be easier to replace them. What are your thoughts?
Also, he is missing the mounting bracket/CPU stand offs. Where is the best place to find those?
The drop target assembly was disassembled but I think we figured out how to get it all put back together. Would someone please post some photos of theirs please. I have worked on a Ground Shaker before and I believe they are identical.
I will post pictures in a reply since I have them saved on my phone. THanks for any help.

Fix what is broken, get it playable before going nuts. Specially on your first game. Usually these games get played to death, and then folded up and put away.

When i fix one of these barn find style games first step is to rebuild all the boards. I go through every single board visual check, rebuilding what needs it, fixing what is broken. It is nice to have another game you can test the boards in. Start with the Power board. Then do the driver board. Then do the MPU. Then do the lamp driver.

After i know the board set is solid do the playfield.

Once you have a playing game. Then you can polish the legs up. Do the coin door, side rails, trim pieces, etc.

#8 9 years ago

Check ALL fuses for correct rating before plugging it in.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Fix what is broken, get it playable before going nuts. Specially on your first game. Usually these games get played to death, and then folded up and put away.

I will start with the boards for sure. I have never done a board rebuild on these but I have done cap kits on monitors, so its not a bad idea. Are the kits pretty easy to come by? After that, I do feel that if I don't replace the plungers, I'll burn up the coils. Some are rusted solid. Other than what I listed, the only astethics we are doing is rubbers and lights.

Quoted from cody_chunn:

Check ALL fuses for correct rating before plugging it in.

I already printed off that page on the manual and him and I discussed why its important not to plug it in before I get a chance to go over it.

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Some are rusted solid.

That's bad.

I'd give PBR a call and order up new plungers, sleeves, links and springs.

You might be able to bead blast the rust off the plungers, but they could be pitted underneath.

Remember to clean the shipping wax off the plungers before use, you don't want to contaminate your brand new sleeves.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Fix what is broken, get it playable before going nuts. Specially on your first game. .

I second this and would even go a bit further. Don't spend a dime on cosmetics until you know if you can fix the electronics. Not even buying pretty new drop targets or bulbs however cheap they may be, if the plastics are functional leave them alone until you fix the functionality of the machine 100%. Believe me, I learned the hard way= DRANO $$ otherwise....

COS

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Anyone have this in PDF format? It is not paginated correctly and makes me go OCD. I can fix the page order.

Andrew

I have the printed book for this year. I'm scanning the pages he needs.
faz

#13 9 years ago

I scanned the pages I think you need... sorry about the first page...it's flipped. The others are better.

My scanner at home is very cheesy. I'm going to try scanning at work.... it's much better.

It's chunky, so I uploaded it to my "website".

https://sites.google.com/site/pinballfaz/

Scroll down near the bottom. There's only two files on there.
faz

#14 9 years ago

Thank you Faz!

I do document management for construction / architects / engineers so i am super hand manipulating and paginating PDFs. I will get it organized and upload it for all to use. This is very good information.

FREE THE INFO. NO PINBALL DOCUMENTS SHOULD BE HELD HOSTAGE!

#15 9 years ago

Hey Faz,

It is a 66 page manual with only 15 pages on your website. If i you (or anyone) mails me the book. I will scan it. Upload it. And pay for return postage. This info is worth it.

#16 9 years ago

Look to ebay for the brackets and a spare drop target bank. A dremel and a fine sanding/polishing buff will make quick work of those plungers. This, of course, after you get the game to boot up as mentioned above.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Hey Faz,

It is a 66 page manual with only 15 pages on your website. If i you (or anyone) mails me the book. I will scan it. Upload it. And pay for return postage. This info is worth it.

I saw a similar offer in another post. Let me try it on my scanner at work (I wanted to get something in his hands right away). I'll scan the whole book (today if I can). If it does not turn out well, I'll send it to you.

faz

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

I will start with the boards for sure. I have never done a board rebuild on these but I have done cap kits on monitors, so its not a bad idea.

+1 Agree fully with the others. Each board should be gone through systematically, starting with the rectifier board, step by step. Not only are there parts replacements such as filter caps, but there are also some "reliability mods" for this series of game that shore up weak circuits and help the game operate long term. You can find these details here on the online repair docs. Read the sections about what to check before powering up the game for the first time as well.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

#19 9 years ago

For board rebuild kits, board standoffs, connectors, crimp tools, etc there is no better place than GPE

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/

Connectors will be suspect on this rusty old Bally for sure..... don't skimp on the crimp tool, buy the 1028-CT

#20 9 years ago

1)repair / update boards / replace power cord
2) replace or re-pin connectors
3) clean all the plungers on a wire wheel and replace the sleeves
4) put everything else back together
5) do cosmetic work
6) play star trek!

#21 9 years ago

The full parts catalog is out there for the time being. I'm pretty happy with the quality. I pushed to IPDB but that could take a few days. When it shows up, I'll delete.

Added to all five games.
faz

#22 9 years ago

Awesome Faz! I greatly appreciate it.

I am surprised that there is not a bracket on the end of that drop target bank but that's what the manual has as well. No spring either.

The rectifier kit I need is for AS-2518-18 and it doesn't look like they carry that kit.

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Awesome Faz! I greatly appreciate it.
I am surprised that there is not a bracket on the end of that drop target bank but that's what the manual has as well. No spring either.
The rectifier kit I need is for AS-2518-18 and it doesn't look like they carry that kit.

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps18a
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps18conn1

#24 9 years ago

I know a guy whos parting one out. if you want his info PM me

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Thank you kind sir. Do these come with maps like on Bob Roberts Cap Kits

I don't think so, they kind of expect you to have some idea what you are doing...such as knowing how to orient diodes and read component values. I could see where that could present some challenges though if you are inexperienced. Make sure you have a good tool and enough practice to make good crimps for the connectors. It helps if you are able to read schematics, should you need to figure out what goes where.

As always, you can ask specific questions here on Pinside as well.

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

The full parts catalog is out there for the time being. I'm pretty happy with the quality. I pushed to IPDB but that could take a few days. When it shows up, I'll delete.
Added to all five games.
faz

Thanks for doing that. I've been meaning to scan mine for some time now, shamefully never getting to it. Nice work. I've uploaded things to IPDB recently, and he is still reviewing them. Sometimes takes him a bit, but he'll get to it.

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I don't think so, they kind of expect you to have some idea what you are doing...such as knowing how to orient diodes and read component values. I could see where that could present some challenges though if you are inexperienced. Make sure you have a good tool and enough practice to make good crimps for the connectors. It helps if you are able to read schematics, should you need to figure out what goes where.
As always, you can ask specific questions here on Pinside as well.

Gotcha, yeah, reading schematics is like hieroglyphics to me. I just read the map that tells me this goes here and I put the positive to the positive on the board. That's how I've done all my cap kits on monitors.

I've rebuilt some connectors for a different client before it was a pain and took me about 3 hours but I did it. In this area, I am the local tech. The only other closest one is about 3 hours so its on me. I warn people though, I'm not the best but I am your only option and I don't charge much so I like to think I help.

#29 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Gotcha, yeah, reading schematics is like hieroglyphics to me. I just read the map that tells me this goes here and I put the positive to the positive on the board. That's how I've done all my cap kits on monitors.
I've rebuilt some connectors for a different client before it was a pain and took me about 3 hours but I did it. In this area, I am the local tech. The only other closest one is about 3 hours so its on me. I warn people though, I'm not the best but I am your only option and I don't charge much so I like to think I help.

Repinning connectors is usually simple as copying the existing connector, but sometimes you run into them where they have been hacked to the point that you have to know how to read the schematics, or at least be able to interpret the wiring diagrams for the connectors. On the Bally games, the diagrams use a numeric key code for the wire colors.

#30 9 years ago

Gotcha, I plan on taking night classes at a community college on board repair and schematic reading but it's all about time...

#31 9 years ago

Parts all ordered.

#32 9 years ago

Ok at Gerry's house now. We replaced the Rectifier board and my voltages are all over the place. I have triple checked my soldering and am confident with it but I am getting some insane readings on the Rectifier Test Points. I want to test the transformer but I can decipher the schematics. Can someone help me out with the voltages on the transformer?

#33 9 years ago

Measure AC voltage between these lugs on the transformer:
2 & 6 = 49VAC
8 & 10 = 173VAC
11 & 18 = 7.3VAC
13 & 14 = 7.8VAC
15 & 16 = 12VAC

Of course, readings may be higher under no load.

#34 9 years ago

Ok, update. He had rebuilt the plug in and didn't hook up the ground. So that fixed almost all of the voltages.

On the rectifier board on the +7 I am getting nothing. I tested the fuses and everything is fine there. I am leaning toward a burnt connection or I might need more solder somewhere on the rectifier. Also on the rectifier my 230v TP is only getting 150v.

The Solenoid driver board (also replaced) is working perfectly.

Still getting an Overload on the MPU I checked the test points and my ground is getting +5v.

I'm calling it quits for today but let me know what you all think we should look at next round.

#35 9 years ago

What do you mean by an overload on the MPU if the voltage is good?

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

On the rectifier board on the +7 I am getting nothing.

This is the only branch that is AC on the rectifier, so methinks you were possibly looking at DC. Make sure meter set to read AC volts and try again.

Quoted from futurepinhead:

Also on the rectifier my 230v TP is only getting 150v.

Just to clarify: this is TP2 that you are looking at, correct? Loaded or unloaded (J3 connected, or disconnected?)

Quoted from futurepinhead:

Still getting an Overload on the MPU I checked the test points and my ground is getting +5v.
I'm calling it quits for today but let me know what you all think we should look at next round.

Ground is getting +5V? What exactly do you mean by "overload on MPU"?

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

This is the only branch that is AC on the rectifier, so methinks you were possibly looking at DC. Make sure meter set to read AC volts and try again.

This is exactly what I was doing. I had a friend text this to me last night with the same info.

Quoted from wayout440:

Just to clarify: this is TP2 that you are looking at, correct? Loaded or unloaded (J3 connected, or disconnected?)

At TP2 that is supposed to be 230v DC. It is unloaded and getting 150v.

Quoted from wayout440:

Ground is getting +5V? What exactly do you mean by "overload on MPU

There is an LED that indicates if you are getting an over voltage and that is the only light that lights on the MPU. Testing ground it is 5v. Everything else is fine.

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

At TP2 that is supposed to be 230v DC. It is unloaded and getting 150v.

Sounds like it's maybe a failed bridge rectifier. I'm pretty sure you should have something near 230VDC, then at the HV section of the PS it regulates it down, you want something near 170-190VDC...and usually that section is the one that fails and needs rebuilt - a symptom is the 230VDC won't adjust down. Pinsider Barakandl on this site would probably be able to help further.

Quoted from futurepinhead:

There is an LED that indicates if you are getting an over voltage and that is the only light that lights on the MPU. Testing ground it is 5v. Everything else is fine.

That is not an overload LED, that is a diagnostic LED.

No Flashes: the LED is Permanently On.
If you turn your Bally game on, and the LED stays on continually, this is one of the hardest problem to fix on these boards. A stuck on LED can be caused by any (or all!) of the following:

The reset circuit is damaged (after all, it's in the battery corrosion area!). This includes transistors Q1 and Q2 (both 2N3904), Q5 (2N4403), and diodes CR5 (1N4148 or 1N914) and VR1 (1N959B or 1N4738A).
The program ROM (read only memory) at U6 is bad.
The ROM jumpers are incorrectly set for the U6/U2 ROMs installed.
The U9 CPU microprocessor is bad.
The U11 PIA (peripheral interface adapter) is bad.
ANY of the sockets for chips U6, U9, U11 are bad.

The first and last points are probably the most common problems.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index2.htm

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Sounds like it's maybe a failed bridge rectifier. I'm pretty sure you should have something near 230VDC, then at the HV section of the PS it regulates it down, you want something near 170-190VDC...and usually that section is the one that fails and needs rebuilt - a symptom is the 230VDC won't adjust down. Pinsider Barakandl on this site would probably be able to help further.

Do a lot of rectifier boards need work from the factory? So on my Rottendog Rectifier board one of the rectifiers is more than likely bad to be giving me roughly half voltage.

Quoted from wayout440:

That is not an overload LED, that is a diagnostic LED.

No Flashes: the LED is Permanently On.
If you turn your Bally game on, and the LED stays on continually, this is one of the hardest problem to fix on these boards. A stuck on LED can be caused by any (or all!) of the following:

The reset circuit is damaged (after all, it's in the battery corrosion area!). This includes transistors Q1 and Q2 (both 2N3904), Q5 (2N4403), and diodes CR5 (1N4148 or 1N914) and VR1 (1N959B or 1N4738A).
The program ROM (read only memory) at U6 is bad.
The ROM jumpers are incorrectly set for the U6/U2 ROMs installed.
The U9 CPU microprocessor is bad.
The U11 PIA (peripheral interface adapter) is bad.
ANY of the sockets for chips U6, U9, U11 are bad.

The first and last points are probably the most common problems.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index2.htm

Here is what I found on Allteks website.

The +5vdc or +5vac voltages are not correct or The over voltage LED (D17) is on.
• There are only two important components that make up the +5vdc. The voltage regulator (Q20) and the
big capacitor (C23) on the solenoid board. If you have too much AC voltage, then replace the big capacitor.
If you have too much DC voltage, then replace the voltage regulator. Recheck the voltages before plugging
in the MPU again. Sometimes you might have to replace both components and with the game being over 20
years old, it’s not a bad idea to replace both components at this time.

So I need to find the voltage regulator on Q20 since it was a DC voltage coming in too strong. Do you know where Q20 should be located.

#40 9 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Here is what I found on Allteks website.

Oh, didn't see where these were Alltek boards - sorry. Not familiar with them.

#41 9 years ago

Ok Gerry, the guy I am helping, says he tested the rectifier board again last night and our 240 test point is now at 238. Not sure what changed but I'll take it. Still getting 5v on the ground on MPU so I am going to replace all of the connections at the MPU and Rectifier board and see what that does

#42 9 years ago

Gerry sent me this photo. A little bit of life. He said that when he quarters up 77 shows up and thats it. I believe 77 is a switch or tilt error is it not?

IMAG0078.jpgIMAG0078.jpg
#43 9 years ago

It could be corrupt ram. Go into test mode and zero out all the settings, see if that helps.

#44 9 years ago

Shouldn't be a corrupt ram with a brand new Alltek board but I'm not going to rule it out.

#45 9 years ago

Oh, didn't know it was aftermarket, that's why your comment confused me. Never mind!

#46 9 years ago

it runs diagnostics displays solenoids work right now 75% of the feature lamps don't work playfield won't power up there is probably some connector issues but im really thinking it has lamp driver board issues anyone have any thoughts on this

#47 9 years ago

Connectors could be iffy. PITA but worth it to repin and get new housings as well. The lamp driver is pretty easy to fix. Components are pretty cheap. It's usually something really minor but finding it is all the fun.........

#48 9 years ago

Feature lamp problems: 90% of them are either the sockets or connector pins.
Pull every lamp, clean socket and lamp with some emory cloth.
With all the corrosion in the pics, I'd be shocked if the pins weren't bad also.

Do both female and male. Do them all. It may work without doing this, but down the road it
will not, guaranteed.

I have restored several early Bally barn finds, and it's always the same story. Corrosion.

#49 9 years ago

Feature lamps, run an alligator lead clipped to the cabinet ground braid and touch it to the tab with the insulated wire coming off of it, don't touch the bracket or the socket itself. The lamp should light. If it doesn't it's either the socket or the bulb. Get them all working this way first, then remaining issues would probably be connectors or SCRs on lamp driver.

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Feature lamps, run an alligator lead clipped to the cabinet ground braid and touch it to the tab with the insulated wire coming off of it, don't touch the bracket or the socket itself. The lamp should light. If it doesn't it's either the socket or the bulb. Get them all working this way first, then remaining issues would probably be connectors or SCRs on lamp driver.

Good idea. I have a test alligator clip wire that should be long enough for this.

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