(Topic ID: 215116)

Help! Major recurring problem with Rustoleum 2x


By mrm_4

1 year ago



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  • 84 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 64 days ago by wolffcub
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    There are 84 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    I’m trying to paint a cabinet. Laid the flat white primer down last Friday. Seven days ago today. Time to paint the base color. As soon as the paint hits the cabinet the primer immediately starts to spider web like in the pic. This happened to me when I did the backbox and had to sand it down and repaint it 3 times in places. What is happening??? I see others on pinside use the same products within 2 days and get restorations done in a week or 2 I’m waiting 1 to 2 weeks after painting 1 color and still have problems. Shaking can for 4 minutes with my phone set as a timer also. It has me terrified to try and finish the stencil on my back box and do the rest of the cabinet. I’m glad I started in the back. Any clue as to what is happening???

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    #2 1 year ago

    This happened to me while putting on a 2nd coat when the first coat was dry to the touch,
    but not totally dry which made the solvents from the 2nd coat eat the first coat's solvents.
    But after 2 days, not to mention a week, that primer should have been 100% dry..
    I maybe would try contacting Rust-Oleum. That may be is what I did to now know about
    the solvents, but that was paint on paint, not paint on primer, but the results looked just
    like what you have..

    #3 1 year ago

    Usually that kind of crinkling/lifting is caused by the two substances not "liking" each other. Something on the base/primer surface is not getting along well with something in the paint. Is one an oil base? As far as others using the same products -- not sure what they'd be doing different? Sanding the primer first?

    I've had similar issues even out of the same can of spray paint -- paint an object, wait several days, try a second coat and the lifting can occur. There is something in the curing process that causes it to react adversely.

    Not a direct answer, but I'd make sure the primer and paint are compatible.

    #4 1 year ago

    As for compatibility I’m using the same line across the board. The only difference is the flat to gloss which I know isn’t a problem to use a flat primer. Ughhh this driving me nuts.

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    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    This happened to me while putting on a 2nd coat when the first coat was dry to the touch,
    but not totally

    BTW: I now put on multiple coats within an hour of each other. Haven't had a problem since.
    Last week I primed a coin box, then painted it an hour later applying multiple fairly
    thin coats, and all was good. I always use both Rust-Oleum Primer and Paint..
    Rust-Oleum phone#: 1 (877) 385-8155

    #6 1 year ago

    I used to love the Painters Touch line but since they have made the formula including primer i have had nothing but problems with it!

    #7 1 year ago

    Rust-Oleum only sticks to Rust-Oleum, no other paints will stick to it. Especially if a top coat is laid on thick. The Top coat will lift, like the photos above. Think it is called 'Crow Feet'.

    #8 1 year ago

    I’ve had this happen a few times and I just went through it recently on a melody repaint. If my phone hadn’t been damaged I’d post a pic that looks exactly like yours. I had to paint some spots 3 times.

    Only conclusions I’ve come to is I don’t think it’s surface prep (naptha) or paint compatibility (same 2x products). To me it has happened if the paint is laid on heavy and/or not given a long time to dry. For some reason if I lay the 2x stuff on thick it takes FOREVER to cure (like over a week).

    It also happens every time Ive ever layed down their (enamel) clear and then tried to put any 2x enamel color over that.

    I stopped using their primer altogether because i tended to overdo the primer thickness and it would do it to me then.

    #9 1 year ago

    If it makes you feel better here is an after pic. Comes out nice when it works.
    The dark blue bands had to be repainted twice. Had to take them to bare wood without messing up the white. What a pain!

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    #10 1 year ago

    Ok called Rustoleum BASICALLY what I’m being told is the problem is considering cure time versus dry time. This thing is bone dry to the touch after a week but do to being in a garage with varying temps and humidity it’s a crap shoot as to how to gauge that it is cured. This stuff was specifically designed to be used in 70 degrees with 50% humidity. Completely dry in 2 days. Completely CURED in 7. Which means if I want to paint in my garage in Ohio I have about a 3 week window out of the whole year to do it. An example explained on the phone was this guy having to wait almost 8 weeks on a project he was doing in his garage because the temps went from 60 during the day to 30s at night. Basically what I’m concluding to which they didn’t specifically say is, this stuff wasn’t designed to paint colors over colors, it’s more of a “paint the whole chair red” and move on.
    More than likely not using this stuff on the next project.

    #11 1 year ago

    Are you using the "Flat White" in your picture as a primer or as a color coat?

    I'd probably try something different than using a paint/primer combo -- it may be good for single coverage but not multiple layers/coverage. I imagine they are marketing these paints for someone that wants to spray their rusty lawn chair and not high end pinball cabinet art.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Basically what I’m concluding to which they didn’t specifically say is, this stuff wasn’t designed to paint colors over colors, it’s more of a “paint the whole chair red” and move on.

    I swear I did not read this when typing my reply (look at the times!) -- looks like we are thinking the same thoughts!

    #13 1 year ago

    It’s for Mata Hari
    Primer White
    Base Marigold Yellow
    1st stencil Red
    2nd stencil Black

    At this rate I’ll show you guys how it turns out sometime in August

    I waited a month to do the red on the back box because I was afraid of it pulling up during the stencil. Probably do the black stencil on Memorial Day

    image (resized).jpg

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from dropdeadhippie:

    If it makes you feel better here is an after pic. Comes out nice when it works.
    The dark blue bands had to be repainted twice. Had to take them to bare wood without messing up the white. What a pain!

    Yeah I know what you mean about when it’s done. I picked it because so many of you have posted projects that have turned out so nice using the 2X. I’m just not having good luck at all with it and have never done this before it’s an expensive and agitating learning experience.

    One thing for anyone doing this for the first time having similar issues. I asked about that is considered coats and what exactly is the time to wait between applying and they said to spray an EXTREMELY light layer back and forth to cover the area WAIT ABOUT 3-5 mins then go up and down with about the same consistency. Wait another 5 mins or so and then do it again diagonally. If you just saturate the whole area and try to cover it all in one pass it’ll cause the “orange peeling” you see in the pic on a follow up coat. Also if you wait more than an hour to do a coat you’ll get the peel.
    I told them that detail should be on the can.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Also if you wait more than an hour to do a coat you’ll get the peel.

    Yes, that is what causes the solvents from the 2nd coat to eat the 1st coat's solvents.
    I no longer let the coats exceed 30 minutes. The same procedure worked for me with
    paint on Primer..
    If it's not Hammertone, I don't use Primer/Paint combo..

    #16 1 year ago

    Worth mentioning that my recent experience with this on my melody wasn’t with Rust-Oleum 2x. That was krylon so just be aware it’s happened to me with other brands too.

    #17 1 year ago

    I appreciate everyone chiming in. Spray painting is such a simple thing that I imagine it’s easy to see this post and say “typical newb” and just move on. Thank you for sharing the frustration.

    #18 1 year ago

    I bought that paint once. I shook the can for what seemed like forever. When the paint came out it was like water, and the coverage was a joke. Maybe I got part of a bad batch, but I am in no rush to give it a second chance.

    3 weeks later
    #19 1 year ago

    Ok so after 23 days my conclusion is FUCK RUSTOLEUM!!!

    Just sprayed it again and this happened.

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    #20 1 year ago

    What stuff was used as the flat white primer?

    #21 1 year ago

    All Rustoleum

    #22 1 year ago

    #23 1 year ago

    Was the above recent picture painted with light coatsa a few minutes apart or a heavy coat with no waiting in between?

    #24 1 year ago

    If you put spray paint on thick it could take MONTHS to cure.

    Take some fine sandpaper and sand a little spot.

    Smell the sanded spot, does it still smell like solvents? Then it's not fully cured.

    See that run that you think has dried? Do a thumbnail test. Did it dent? Then it's not fully cured.

    #25 1 year ago

    So soon as the paint hit it, it started to pull. Like instantly. I usually spray a light coat and wait about 3-5 minutes before doing another. But as soon as it touched it, BOOM. DUMPSTER FIRE OF A CABINET!

    #26 1 year ago

    You can put that paint plus primer stuff onto bare wood and if it gets too thick or the humidity is too high it will always lift. I'll never use that junk again, is it too late for you to switch to rustoleum without the primer added?

    #27 1 year ago

    I have two word to share with you, Ironlak & Molotow.

    Sucks you had to endure the mess, you will be happy with these two companies paints. I have personally used original kilz primer, roll on and rattle can with success.

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    #28 1 year ago

    I like real Killz as a primer (Killz Original), it's lacquer based, so it cures crazy fast.

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    #29 1 year ago

    ....Ive had it tinted Yellow with good results on a Tommy.

    #30 1 year ago

    Kills is the best, I just used it the first time for a primer........I be using forever now. All done with rustoleum within 7 days. But I use satin not gloss

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    #31 1 year ago

    Crazy.... I did all three of these with Rustoleum, & mostly 2X... Semi gloss white bases, no primer on base, & then 2X Apple red gloss on Nitro, with 2X Semi gloss black, on SBM I did Rustoleum 2X semi gloss white, Valspar "pool party" for blue, & 2X semigloss black.... Playboy was 2X Semi gloss white base, Rustoleum Satin Magenta, & then 2X Semi gloss black....

    All 3 were done with same lead times..... I spray the base & allow 24 hours to set & then do my 1st color, then another 24 hour, the 3rd color goes onto of that. Only time I have had anything near that happen, it was on wobdrails for the PF, it was too thick of a 2nd coat, IMO it's the thinners in the second color attacking the base coat.

    I just did Nitro in 3-4 days.....from start to finish.

    It's gotta be your primer causing the issue. Strip it down to bare wood again, skip the primer, do your base Yellow, go light for 1st 2 coats both to avoid runs & to let it "soak" into wood. Do 3rd semi heavy, but not crazy heavy final coat to give good overall colorization & surface finish to the paint. I'd let that sit for 24 hours & do 2nd color. I like to use semi gloss wherever possible.... it dries a lot faster, less bleed around stencils etc. Plus, these machines were never intended to look more shiny than my brand new $50,000 car.... I don't like the whole clear coat look to a cab. But that's just me.

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    #32 1 year ago

    I paint aircraft but we sometimes use car paint products and the color touch up spay cans and this sometimes happens because of temp, or the coat under shrinks and will wrinkle the top coat. It's a crap shoot sometimes if you can't control some factors like humidity and temp. We sometimes put a flex agent in the paint but then we have more control over our environment in our paint booth.

    #33 1 year ago

    Ultimately what I’ll need to do is wait a day or 2, sand everything off, and then I’m just using the yellow. Screw laying down a primer. It’s a paint and primer in 1 so what’s the point? I’m not covering up black or some other dark color. And then I’m gonna take the cabinet inside and keep it next to my dehumidifier for 2 weeks before I stencil. I did the entire back box already so I don’t want to try and change paints and mismatch colors. Then pray that when I lay the next color down it goes smoothly, otherwise I’ll need to buy another stencil from pinball Pimp. At that point I’ll probably throw this whole machine into a wood chipper out of frustration and anger.

    #34 1 year ago

    Where did you paint today? Was it humid?

    #35 1 year ago

    Outside of Akron. Not far from you. Painted around 5:30

    #36 1 year ago

    Did you sand the white before spraying the yellow?

    #37 1 year ago

    Yeah, did the whole cab in white then sanded with 400 grit. All other sides of this cab have turned out perfect but for some reason the back won’t cure. It sits in my garage next to a window and the sunlight comes in the window directly on the back. Here are pics of the other sides.

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    #38 1 year ago

    sounds like some kind of contamination since it's just one surface that keeps fighting? Sand it, and put a skim coat of filler on the wood to give you a new base to work from. Sand, prime, and paint.

    Have you tried changing the can you are using?

    #39 1 year ago

    Sand out the wrinkles, put the cab in the sun to bake it (or put it under hot 300w lightbulb for a day to cure), prime with Original Kilz to seal off the old stuff, put ONE coat of yellow down, call it done.

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    sounds like some kind of contamination since it's just one surface that keeps fighting? Sand it, and put a skim coat of filler on the wood to give you a new base to work from. Sand, prime, and paint.
    Have you tried changing the can you are using?

    It was a new can. one can for the front and one of the sides and then one can for the other side and then I popped a new one for the back. As for contamination, not sure what or how something would've done that. Did all sides the same, Im OCD as hell so its not like something could've happened to it and me not notice. Im gonna sand it down to bare wood when I get home this afternoon.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Sand out the wrinkles, put the cab in the sun to bake it (or put it under hot 300w lightbulb for a day to cure), prime with Original Kilz to seal off the old stuff, put ONE coat of yellow down, call it done.

    I have a gallon can of original Kilz I used recently for a project at my rental property so I'm gonna try out your suggestion Vid. I'll report back at the "call it done" phase if all goes well.

    #41 1 year ago

    I wonder if the back of the cabinet has been sitting stored vertically, on a concrete floor. It may have sucked moisture for years, preventing your primer/paint to fully cure.

    On my Xenon, I had a similar issue where the back of the cabinet had sucked so much water and moisture from sitting on the ground/concrete, that it was warped and chipping. The little plastic feet are useless when it comes to isolating the cabinet from the ground.

    Yes, try to isolate with Kilz (only the back), let it dry and paint one coat of yellow. Then place the machine against the wall.
    You will never look at it again.

    Yves

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    It was a new can. one can for the front and one of the sides and then one can for the other side and then I popped a new one for the back. As for contamination, not sure what or how something would've done that. Did all sides the same, Im OCD as hell so its not like something could've happened to it and me not notice. Im gonna sand it down to bare wood when I get home this afternoon.

    I was meaning something in the wood itself. Moisture, chemicals, something. You've been focusing on the paint, maybe it's something in the substrate impacting the paint. That's why everyone is going down the path of 'sealing' the wood in some way. My suggestion was to create a new surface with filler in case the situation in the substrate would impact other primers too.

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    but for some reason the back won’t cure. It sits in my garage next to a window and the sunlight comes in the window directly on the back.

    One thing I always make sure to do is make sure my paint and my work are the same temp. If I'm painting outdoors, I leave my paint outdoors (in a shaded area) to reach the same temperature as my work, same if I'm painting in my booth.
    I've had similar issues to yours if I don't remember to do this.
    If you back had been in full sun, even in OH, perhaps that caused the issues?

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from Arcane:

    I wonder if the back of the cabinet has been sitting stored vertically, on a concrete floor. It may have sucked moisture for years, preventing your primer/paint to fully cure.
    On my Xenon, I had a similar issue where the back of the cabinet had sucked so much water and moisture from sitting on the ground/concrete, that it was warped and chipping. The little plastic feet are useless when it comes to isolating the cabinet from the ground.
    Yes, try to isolate with Kilz (only the back), let it dry and paint one coat of yellow. Then place the machine against the wall.
    You will never look at it again.
    Yves

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I was meaning something in the wood itself. Moisture, chemicals, something. You've been focusing on the paint, maybe it's something in the substrate impacting the paint. That's why everyone is going down the path of 'sealing' the wood in some way. My suggestion was to create a new surface with filler in case the situation in the substrate would impact other primers too.

    That's actually pretty plausible now that I think about it. The back of the Backbox had water damage and I had to rip off the top layer of ply. I didn't even think of moisture or something due to how it was stored prior to me getting it, rearing its ugly head under the primer. the back of the cab "looks" fine but considering one piece of this machine had a problem, I need to consider it for the rest if I want to be logical. Good call

    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    One thing I always make sure to do is make sure my paint and my work are the same temp. If I'm painting outdoors, I leave my paint outdoors (in a shaded area) to reach the same temperature as my work, same if I'm painting in my booth.
    I've had similar issues to yours if I don't remember to do this.
    If you back had been in full sun, even in OH, perhaps that caused the issues?

    Recently because the weather is better I started storing the cans in the garage next to the cabinet so hopefully Im able to rule that out.

    #45 1 year ago

    I had an e-Mail exchange with Jeff from Pinball Pimp, and he mentioned using the Rustoleum 2x Prime+Paint in Gloss for the Museum Quality restoration of his Mata Hari.

    Of course, Jeff lives in Florida where the weather is hot but humid. Apparently, he has no problem with this brand of spray cans.

    Mrm_4, I am like you, restoring a Mata Hari and about to embark with the Rustoleum spray cans that I just bought this morning. I have not started stripping the cabinet of its original paint and wondered how I will approach this delicate task:

    - Roughly sand the original paint and patch holes and blemishes. Then paint over with the Marigold can, without any primer.
    - Take it down to the wood as you did, prime it and then paint with the Marigold Gloss.

    I think I am going to try the lightbox first, and see how it reacts to the first option.

    Yves

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from Arcane:

    I had an e-Mail exchange with Jeff from Pinball Pimp, and he mentioned using the Rustoleum 2x Prime+Paint in Gloss for the Museum Quality restoration of his Mata Hari.

    Ha that's exactly how I ended up with this paint, I reached out to him by email and he gave me the brand and color scheme he used. Hopefully your project goes smoother than mine. My back box is done and good to go so I gotta just stick this last part out and I can get it all back together.

    #47 1 year ago

    Well in a weird coincidence i read this thread last night, and today my wife asked me to repaint this tool hanger which I had spray painted yellow a few days ago. She decided she didnt like the color and wanted it just spray painted black. So I did, heres what I used and heres the result.
    Same crappy problem. Maybe its the "plus primer" that is causing it? The yellow coat went on just fine.

    image (resized).jpg

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    #48 1 year ago

    I painted my custom game with the 2X on the suggestions of others and had some issues on the front similar to yours.

    Peel

    In my case I used high-fill autobody primer and the 2X heirloom white as the base and 2X red. No issues on the side, just the front. After I stripped it down and re-primed it was fine. So, as others have said, probably something in the base wood.

    Going forward I'll prime with Kilz.

    Sides are fine

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from Sinistarrett:

    Well in a weird coincidence i read this thread last night, and today my wife asked me to repaint this tool hanger which I had spray painted yellow a few days ago. She decided she didnt like the color and wanted it just spray painted black. So I did, heres what I used and heres the result.
    Same crappy problem. Maybe its the "plus primer" that is causing it? The yellow coat went on just fine.

    Quoted from jwilson:

    I painted my custom game with the 2X on the suggestions of others and had some issues on the front similar to yours.

    In my case I used high-fill autobody primer and the 2X heirloom white as the base and 2X red. No issues on the side, just the front. After I stripped it down and re-primed it was fine. So, as others have said, probably something in the base wood.
    Going forward I'll prime with Kilz.

    Thanks for sharing guys! (and everyone else that mentioned having the problem) Good to know I'm not alone with this!

    #50 1 year ago

    Just remember that anything rattle-can has mega solvents.

    Those solvents often violently react with many old paints that are lacquer based.

    They even sometimes violently react with their own paint if it's too thick or the last coat is not completely cured.

    You never have that problem with Createx, or when you have the Hardware store color match in latex.

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