(Topic ID: 106835)

Help improve the final version of The Hobbit


By oscarspa

4 years ago



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  • 201 posts
  • 84 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Sammy31
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 201 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 4 years ago

Also, go back to the chrome axes that the slings had on the whitewood. Much better than what they have now.

13
#102 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Something like this. "Please excuse the crudity of this model."

Screen Shot 2014-10-20 at 10.21.... 1.6 MB

Some of you guys in here never cease to amaze me....that sir is one FANTASTIC mock up...if they had done that they would have been scrambling for parts to keep up with the orders.

305729.png

#103 4 years ago

I'll tell you what else is an Expo place holder just from looking at that photo. Just look at the map on the apron. Looks like a dull cardboard cutout. I still have not given up hope of an interactive map apron with LEDs, which displays your progress through Middle Earth to the final mode. Or something along those lines. There needs to be a place for your game number, JJP logos, etc. That whole apron area clearly isn't finished at all & definitely looks like it was held back for Expo.

#104 4 years ago

In regards to the 'book' a statement from Jack on Google Groups...about one aspect of the 'development' game brought to the Expo...

...There are things that could have been better left off this game as they were placeholders (book) and we would have had less grief."...

One issue addressed...

#105 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Some of you guys in here never cease to amaze me....that sir is one FANTASTIC mock up...if they had done that they would have been scrambling for parts to keep up with the orders.

305729.png 1.6 MB

If they did smug that way would you still be able to use the spinning mechanism?

#106 4 years ago

I always pictured a sleeping Smaug back there, too.

Oh well.

#107 4 years ago

I posted this on a different thread but now see there is a more appropriate one. My thoughts ...

Forget Smaug guys (and gals.) He's not changing. Dress him up a bit with some plastics/scenery behind him?? Maybe.

But the book? That's the real loser. Put an lcd there? WHY?!? In WOZ, it was an ingenious idea ... you had the crystal ball from the movie and they thought of a way to recreate that effect. Awesome!! But what in the world does an lcd on the pf do for you in Hobbit?? I don't understand why that is ANY better than the book. What can you show on that lcd that you can't show on the MAIN lcd? What prop exactly from the movie are you replicating that requires an lcd? AND ... I honestly think you're creating a trouble spot in the game that route operators will HATE. Terrible territory for airballs.

Things that are achievable in 1 month:
1) Replace the book with a much better plastic/toy - the shire, bag end's, whatever. The book was a silly choice as a "placeholder", sorry.
2) Add a better backboard decal with much more detail ... mountains on the left .. better Hobbit scenery on the right
3) Consider side art (blades?) You can really add a lot of the Hobbit world by simply introducing some gorgeous side art (and it won't cost the company much money.)
4) Can you create other key Hobbit toy figures to be placed (as appropriate) around the playfield? I don't expect JJP to come up with new mechanical toys in 1 month .. BUT, people really do love seeing static characters on the pf. It's MUCH better than no representation at all. Place them as appropriate around the playfield.
5) Take that book toy ... scale it down 1/4 size .. and place it above the shooter lane on the right. It's very nice as a "small" detail (not a central toy).
6) Lighting effects - where are the spotlights and flashers? Lighting adds a dramatic fun factor that was missing (except on the pf itself) in WOZ that still seems missing.

These are all things that should be achievable in 1 month. Re-designing Smaug or game flow or adding new mechanical toys in general is not going to happen. But artistic accents are doable. My 2 cents.

- The old man has spoken.

#108 4 years ago

If the book is a placeholder, tell Jack I call dibs on the few that were made. I want one!

#109 4 years ago

I'm 80% out at this point, yesterday it was 95%, but Jack's message on his Google group dialed it back just a bit. I'm trying not to be hasty, but still I may not last to IAAP.

Here's what I want to hear right now. I want to hear directly from Keith that there is a brilliant master plan why there are 11 drop targets in this game. To me the fact that the drop targets dominate the game is really really bothering me. Maybe my imagination is too limited, but I just can't seem to think how having this many vs having some extra ramp or something is going to make the game more fun. Two banks sure, but three just seems too much of the same. Please please please tell me that I'm wrong, and that there is some way this makes the game great. The ramps are too similar and far back for my taste. I'm just worried after watching gameplay that I'll be bored out of my mind playing this game.

The dragon is kind of tragic. Could have been so much cooler. I don't see it changing one bit at this point (a shame since the dragon concept posted by Pacman is 1000% better), so something has to make up for it. Gameplay is king for me, and so far I'm not feeling it at all. I have to know that Keith wanted the 11 drops and that he has a plan to make all of them compelling, and that it wasn't just "well we have these cool drops, let's load it up".

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

If they did smug that way would you still be able to use the spinning mechanism?

I'm not sure but think about this, wouldn't you rather see him all the time instead of an abortion piece of mountain plastic? I would, it's OK if he never spins..let him sit there and have his head or wings raise only during speech mode and multiball. just light him with some nice flashers and have his voice boom during key moments and you've got a hit.

PS: how can you raise the head or wings? well you can mount brackets under the wings (like slingshot mechs only smaller) that can be actuated with small flat coils. The head can stay stationary the wings flapping or moving should be enough to dazzle.

#111 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

I'm not sure but think about this, wouldn't you rather see him all the time instead of an abortion piece of mountain plastic? I would, it's OK if he never spins..let him sit there and have his head or wings raise only during speech mode and multiball. just light him with some nice flashers and have his voice boom during key moments and you've got a hit.
PS: how can you raise the head or wings? well you can mount brackets under the wings (like slingshot mechs only smaller) that can be actuated with small flat coils. The head can stay stationary the wings flapping or moving should be enough to dazzle.

Being a stepper motor, he could always be seen as an option in menu or code. He moves side to side and opens mouth to talk and breathe fire. I really like the integration of the movement in time with the LCD animations.

Really reminds me of Rudy of Funhouse.

#112 4 years ago

I hope they are adding flashers to the game also. Im a little concerned by the lack of differing shots too. I love the drops I do but we need more than that.

#113 4 years ago

+1 to adding more flashers!

#114 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I hope they are adding flashers to the game also. Im a little concerned by the lack of differing shots too. I love the drops I do but we need more than that.

I don't know. Pinball is essentially a shooting game. If the shots are challenging, fun and worth hitting you have a winner.

With only 4 individually controlled drop targets in Cactus Canyon, Eric was able to simulate the trolls in MM, the Dracula in MB and make a very fun Cowboys vs Aliens mode.

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I don't know. Pinball is essentially a shooting game. If the shots are challenging, fun and worth hitting you have a winner.
With only 4 individually controlled drop targets in Cactus Canyon, Eric was able to simulate the trolls in MM, the Dracula in MB and make a very fun Cowboys vs Aliens mode.

One of my complaints on the Walking Dead..... It should have have individual drops represented as zombie walkers heading toward the player you needed to shoot at in a mode with gun shot sounds activated by flipper button switch contacts......

#116 4 years ago

hmm...

Keep pin just like it is (as seen at expo 2014), but lower the price.

Then let creative aftermarket create a variety of mods to enhance playfield.
Focus corporate energy on more game-play design, coding & QA.
Win-win-win for everyone involved.

#117 4 years ago

i am unsure how they could incorporate the body of smaug on the pf when the head is turned to expose the mountain we have a headless smaug body? i wonder if a mountain structure will be used in behind smaug and when his head turn to reveal his face side , at the same time, a side panel of the mountain structure will also lift as wings to expose the body and the interactive tail of smaug.

to the left of smaug there is a magnet controlled diverter , and right below that is another magnet , but nothing else there to work with it, any speculation on that? ( in abe's hobbit pics)

also at the very top of the PF under the FT ramps there is two magnets ( i think they are magnets, they look similar to the magnet on my SM at the doc ock area) any idea what these are for?

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

One of my complaints on the Walking Dead..... It should have have individual drops represented as zombie walkers heading toward the player you needed to shoot at in a mode with gun shot sounds activated by flipper button switch contacts......

That would have been very cool if it had four or five individually controlled drops in a staggered pattern in the middle of the playfield, going from front to back. They could then mimic a zombie getting closer to you by starting with the one furthest from you and moving forward if you don't hit it in time.

If it reached you without getting hit, it could add one and repeat with both moving closer, etc..

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

One of my complaints on the Walking Dead..... It should have have individual drops represented as zombie walkers heading toward the player you needed to shoot at in a mode with gun shot sounds activated by flipper button switch contacts......

I agree, it seems like the main objective is to kill zombies, but yet I have no idea how I killed the ones I did. What, hit a ramp zombie killed, hit a loop another one... Just lack luster for the theme. Let me pick a weapon and give me some drop targets to kill a zombie. I don't get it. All higher prices for so so pins. Lame!!

#120 4 years ago

Oh wow this is a Hobbit thread. For me, seeing the video left me wondering WTF they did that for on Smaug. The main toy, the heart of the theme, and they hide him behind a rock and only show a face. Wow. I'm no pinball designer but can you say WEAK!!!

#121 4 years ago

Apron with interactive map should look good. And that cant be ready before the whole story has been written.

I think that is maybe the last part to complete hardwarewise.

#122 4 years ago

Seems like people are not reading. Lemme make it easy with bullet points:

• Smaug is not changing

• The Book and lockbar were placeholders at expo

• Those empty areas will be filled

• The diverter is Smaug's "tail". Expect plastic/art there.

• If they stay on target with delivery, they are in the production phase. Don't expect major changes.

• New code will be showcased next, as well as the lockbar button use and some remaining art details

• Expect some other subtle things to be revealed

Post edited by thedefog: put apron instead of lockbar

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Seems like people are not reading. Lemme make it easy with bullet points:
• Smaug is not changing
• The Book and apron were placeholders at expo
• Those empty areas will be filled
• The diverter is Smaug's "tail". Expect plastic/art there.
• If they stay on target with delivery, they are in the production phase. Don't expect major changes.
• New code will be showcased next, as well as the apron button use and some remaining art details
• Expect some other subtle things to be revealed

• Windlance
• Lockbar button

#124 4 years ago

Done right, all these points were enough for me.

#125 4 years ago

I think the better option that would have made everyone happy and still have the same effect would be to have a sleeping Smaug in the upper corner as in Pacman's mockup, however I'm not sure you could have his full body because of scale while concealing the mechanics is his head. You could get around this by having him buried in the gold coins with only parts of him exposed. Have his head tucked in behind his wing while "sleeping" and have the wings swing open for the "reveal". You could then have his neck on a pivot and have him follow and interact with the ball. You could also have the trail of coing over to the ramp with his exposed tail on a pivot for the diverter. You could have orange and red flashers hidden below the wings as well. Just a few thoughts

Ryan

#126 4 years ago

Any expectations of changing Smaug this late in the design stage realistically must be only an amendment of the existing mechanical device which includes the Smaug talking head.
Therefore, I am starting to think the best way to modify the rock around smaug is to make it a pile of gold on the back side and then when he turns around it is as if Bilbo has woken Smaug and his head is poking out of the pile of gold. Making the rock a pile of gold would also help brighten up the game.
The part of the rock above his head could be painted black to make it less noticeable.
Here is the very rough concept
Note the end of the tail would go up and down with the diverter. The gold could also be extended to be in the back corner of the playfield.

Buried in gold (head facing away):
303471-i.jpg
Woken and turned to face player (rock painted black):
305652b.jpg

#127 4 years ago

305652h.jpg

#128 4 years ago

Between PACMAN and DCFAN it amazes me that 10 minutes in paint or photoshop can make the whole concept look 100x better. These are not earth shattering changes or ideas - they are the tip of a brainstorming meeting and even utilize the existing limitations supposedly in place from the license holder.

How was the machine at Expo so disappointing after ~2 years of professional brainstorming and development?

#129 4 years ago

Posting this here too incase others missed it, including Jack

I think that JJP can make Smaug just as interactive as the castle in Medieval Madness if not more. How?

Right now Smaug looks like a small separate toy, as do the drops in front of it, the VUK to the left of it, the ramp divertor and the divertor for the ball lock. If everything can be tied together to look like one area, the Lonely Mountain in this case, it will come off as very interactive and extremely impressive toy.

Here's what I suggest.

1. Do not model out the rest of Smaug. I thought this was a good idea at first but it would look odd when the mountain faces the player and the rest of Smaug is just sitting there stationary. We do not need any headless Smaug jokes, haha.

2. Model out the Lonely Mountain instead. Model the mountain out around the sides and even above the Smaug toy. Make the back of Smaug look like the Front Gate of Erebor below. The entire left back area of the game will come off as the Lonely Mountain. That would look bad ass in my opinion.

3. Add detail to the mountain like in the picture below. The castle in MM is detailed and it shows. Doing so will make the player more immersed in the world of Middle Earth.

The end result is a large and detailed Lonely Mountain in the game, the gate of Erebor facing the player and ultimately the middle area of it turning around to reveal Smaug. The castle in MM is amazing but this would be even cooler in my opinion.

hobbitenvironmentereboralrg2.jpg

I did this in Paint very quickly (yes I know it looks terrible, haha) but it gives you a rough idea of how the Lonely Mountain would exist in the game. The image in the middle of the mountain is from above and that would be the Smaug toy that rotates leaving the rest of the mountain stationary around it.

306335.jpg

#130 4 years ago

If they can't get rid of the ugly flat pastic covers of the two vertical upkickers, I have an idea for the left one, there should be a picture printed on it from the movie with Bilbo hiding behind a pillar. Done right that could help to give the right illusion how big the animated Smaug head is.

Pillar Bilbo.jpg

bilbopilarsmaug.jpg
15
#131 4 years ago

here's my kid's ideas...

maybe hold off for aftermarket mods?

hobbit-1.jpg

#132 4 years ago

+1 for your kid!

#133 4 years ago

Pacmans mockup is similar to what I was expecting to see, (amazing by the way) I'm completely bummed about the current version, I'm fully paid up on TH right now, just dropped a deposit on TBL a couple days ago and feel like pulling out on TH, but I have some faith but like others said at this point there can't possibly be much to be done with Smaug which sucks.

-1
#134 4 years ago

I think they could fill the back left half with Smaug's body and then he could still turn his head from a sleeping position to that of being awake and facing the playfield. It could be done.

#135 4 years ago

Now, we have read multiple options, some better then others, what could be done in the smaug area.

From all the different options pinside members gave, not 1 of them sounds worse then what the JJP proffessional team members came up with.

All ideas in this tread are way better then theirs. Aint that sad?

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Now, we have read multiple options, some better then others, what could be done in the smaug area.
From all the different options pinside members gave, not 1 of them sounds worse then what the JJP proffessional team members came up with.
All ideas in this tread are way better then theirs. Aint that sad?

I hear what you're saying, but we have no idea what the constraints are of licenses, budget, engineering, and manufacture. So we're just brainstorming here: a worthwhile activity, but not to be confused with practical thinking, so I don't think you can compare this with what jjp is planning/has planned.

Heck, we don't even KNOW what they're thinking or have planned.

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

I hear what you're saying, but we have no idea what the constraints are of licenses, budget, engineering, and manufacture. So we're just brainstorming here: a worthwhile activity, but not to be confused with practical thinking, so I don't think you can compare this with what jjp is planning/has planned.
Heck, we don't even KNOW what they're thinking or have planned.

And that is the problem of it all. By now we should have known what to expect. No more excuses!

#138 4 years ago

I hope the film studio is getting wind of the reactions and takes the handcuffs off of Jack and JJP - at least a little.

#139 4 years ago

Lost opportunity...

They should have been inspired by this...

#140 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

here's my kid's ideas...
maybe hold off for aftermarket mods?
hobbit-1.jpg 56 KB

moded as it, for sure, +10K before xmas...

#141 4 years ago

How about a Theater Edition (TE) with the game as is and make a run of a 100 games to meet the release obligation. That would buy some development time for the pinhead community.

Quoted from txstargazer3:

I hope the film studio is getting wind of the reactions and takes the handcuffs off of Jack and JJP - at least a little.

#142 4 years ago

Will the game be integrated with items from the 3rd film once the movie is released? I would like to see LCD video, themes rules and characters from the 3rd film in the game. The game is titled “Motion picture trilogy” and should leverage assets from all films. I would think so since there is an insert labeled “Battle the five armies”

The mountain Smaug is behind is not very detailed and should look closer to “the gate to Erebor” The idea of the gate lighting up as someone mentioned is also interesting when multi-ball is ready. The bland rock wall does nothing and is an eye sore.

Wire form VUK the metal rock looking ones don’t look good, take up to much space and the wire forms are much classier look.

The book as we all know is just horrible. Really happy this is getting replaced would love to see a nice mold of Hobbit house exterior from bagshot row. Not sure about adding another LCD, but I like that this is getting replaced.

Will there be spot lights on the slings and other key locations on the game. This was a big concern with WOZ and ended up having to add spot lights on the game. Be nice to see more spot lights and accent lighting on the game. Time spent on lighting designs is an important feature and something not to pass up.

Need more toy molds and items covering all the diverters and metal parts. Would really like to see more sculpts of characters and rocky molds to help fill in the space and create the look and feel of the Hobbit’s environment.

The game overall needs more molds and rocks similar to Willams Dracula or Congo with the plastic molded mountains to fill in the space and sell the theme to the player.

Really hoping for a windlance toy near the kick back or something to illustrate this. I like the Smaug kill shot to be a combo of this and the 3rd flipper.

When a ball is grabbed by the back left magnet. The player should have the choice where it diverts to under the playfield in the subway “Left or right” Similar to Avengers Hawkeye diverter.

The apron needs some work it looks cool, but would love to see some led lighting and other interesting upgrades to this area of the game.

Modes of play and code (We want deep hard and unique rules)

Love to see a mode of play where Smaug is sleeping and the player must sneak around not hitting specific shots. If you wake him at the wrong time you lose your ball. I loved the modes Keith did for WOZ the unique elements like weak flippers and reverse flip was really fun. Mixing up and creating new modes of play like this is what we expect. Code wise I think the fan base expects a ton from this game, but I know the team can deliver.

Inlane shots to the pop-up targets look like fun and should each award and unlock different sequences that can be paired with main modes like hurry ups or roving shots that can layer on the main modes. Either way layered modes ontop of the main game modes is a must and will help keep the game fresh and have good gameplay strategy.

Really want to see the 3rd flipper used more and not just for the kill shot. I do like the kick back to upper right flipper though, that combo could be fun and should be used often.

The middle divertor is interesting and watching the video, how will this be incorporated into the game? All it does is a Fish tales U-turn; will there be modes of play that require the player to perform a U-turn? I also find it hard to hit the ball and quickly hit the button to lower the diverter, so curious how that will pan out.

Seeing multiply skill shot options is nice I am sure those will be fun. Love having options when starting a game!

There are only 4 switches to light lock and the switches are in a main area of the PF. Looks really easy to start multi-ball and light up these switches. I would like to see more skill in starting this mode like roving switch that cycles and the player needs to hit it when its lit, then its awarded a letter. Woz you really have to hit many rollovers to get a ball qualified to lock.

#143 4 years ago

Enhancement: Please make these barrels spin around & around.

1480581_577258845709600_3959024578506650449_n.jpg
#144 4 years ago

Enhancement: Paint the screws GOLD for Smaug toy area.

Capture.JPG
#145 4 years ago
Quoted from Sidekick74:

Enhancement: Please make these barrels spin around & around.

1480581_577258845709600_39590245... 63 KB

like a record baby, round round...

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

like a record baby, round round...

Now that's what we need an 80's pop music pin.

#147 4 years ago

i keep getting this visual in my head when i look at the gold.
it's purely a visual pattern recognition thing.
but then, the smart-azz in me observes that pattern match and wants to say something like,
the 70's called, and they want their dragon gold back.

if i were to be playing the game, that's what i'd hear rattling around in the noggin, cause i'm defective that way

maybe there's some adjustments that could be made to the gold coins? just noodling...

hobbit-gold-1.jpg

#148 4 years ago

I'm having trouble picturing how JJP is going to integrate the tail with the head. It's a detached head that spins around. How on Earth can it have other body parts? If other body parts stay in place while the head spins around it's going to look like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.

#149 4 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I'm having trouble picturing how JJP is going to integrate the tail with the head

yep, I was thinking the same thing.

#150 4 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I'm having trouble picturing how JJP is going to integrate the tail with the head. It's a detached head that spins around. How on Earth can it have other body parts? If other body parts stay in place while the head spins around it's going to look like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.

Lol....cool.

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