(Topic ID: 106835)

Help improve the final version of The Hobbit


By oscarspa

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Sammy31
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There are 201 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
#1 4 years ago

Since JJ has said he still has time to improve mechanics and electronics, I think you should expose positively improvements you think would improve the game significantly, I propose some

1.-.Smaug™ will interact with the ball and samug full body

2.-replacing the 3 right drop targets in front of Smaug and making them a motorized target bank (AFM, Tron and SM style) with some type of shot behind it would please a lot of people. Such as change could be made that would still not involve Samug being directly hit

3.- Smaug(TM)..that FILLS THE ENTIRE BACK OF THE GAME.

4.-Replace Toy Book by the door would open to reveal the LCD behind it.

5.- the areas in the back left & right corners of the playfield could add more mountains by smaug, waterfalls by the poppers, more gold, more smaug body parts, anything really.

6.-New Idea, Replace back of the playfield by a lcd screen play scenes of the movie, like mountains, rivers, landscape,rain, storms, what do you think?, (for this improvement would buy gold if option smaug)

More....

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#2 4 years ago

7. When Smaug is turned away from you, the mountain should have the outline of the door in it. Maybe it lights up when you reach the door in gameplay.

#3 4 years ago

mech under the smaug body is done. It's not going to change. Don't start with that please

21
#4 4 years ago
Quoted from oscarspa:

Since JJ has said he still has time to improve mechanics and electronics, I think you should expose positively improvements you think would improve the game significantly, I propose some
1.-.Smaug™ will interact with the ball and samug full body
2.-replacing the 3 right drop targets in front of Smaug and making them a motorized target bank (AFM, Tron and SM style) with some type of shot behind it would please a lot of people. Such as change could be made that would still not involve Samug being directly hit
3.- Smaug(TM)..that FILLS THE ENTIRE BACK OF THE GAME.
4.-Replace Toy Book by the door would open to reveal the LCD behind it.
5.- the areas in the back left & right corners of the playfield could add more mountains by smaug, waterfalls by the poppers, more gold, more smaug body parts, anything really.
6.-New Idea, Replace back of the playfield by a lcd screen play scenes of the movie, like mountains, rivers, landscape, what do you think?, (for this improvement would buy gold if option smaug)
More....

images (6).jpg 15 KB

Rework a entire game with one month to go...

#5 4 years ago

I think it's a bit too late for major revisions. I think they'd be better served not revealing anything (like stern) until the thing is done (with the exception of code). I hope #3 happens. All these desperation threads about fixing thle are getting me worried.

#6 4 years ago

Just a few quick reworks I see. An extra LCD screen or two, an entire new dragon toy that interacts with the ball, a new shot behind a motorized drop target bank. That seems reasonable. I'd also suggest seeing if we can get a couple mini playfields on there and maybe it could be a head-to-head pin like Joust.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from oscarspa:

2.-replacing the 3 right drop targets in front of Smaug and making them a motorized target bank (AFM, Tron and SM style) with some type of shot behind it would please a lot of people. Such as change could be made that would still not involve Samug being directly hit

They are definitely not changing anything about the drop targets, which is looking like the premier feature of the game, and has vast potential once programmed accordingly. Did anyone notice the test mode, rapid progression firing video of the drop targets? I was amazed at how fast they moved right at the end of the video. I can totally visualize a single open target rapidly moving & zig-zagging across the targets, symbolizing Smaug's exposed scale killshot. That could be the hardest skillshot to hit in pinball.

If they do anything to the drops, maybe they could make them quieter?

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

If they do anything to the drops, maybe they could make them quieter?

I assume it's a lot less noisy when glass, music, flipper and other noises are going in the real thing?

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

Just a few quick reworks I see. An extra LCD screen or two, an entire new dragon toy that interacts with the ball, a new shot behind a motorized drop target bank. That seems reasonable.

Not sure designing an entirely new dragon toy that does something not allowed by the license is either quick or reasonable. I think you're spot on with the LCD screens though.

I personally wouldn't expect any radical changes unless they've already been designed and approved. I think Jack and Co. will explore some options given the response but it's probably best to keep our expectations in line.

#10 4 years ago

JJP doesn't need help. It's done. There will be no changes to Smaug. At this point the game design is final.
As I've said before, going back to whitewood is not an option. And I don't think randomly adding new/different game mechanics would be a good idea.

Jack insists there's still a good amount of pieces missing so just wait and see what those are. Your #5 seems realistic, but other than making the table more appealing visually I don't expect changes.

#11 4 years ago

1. Replace book toy with Bilbos house and matching color targets. (Doable and will make the machine feel Hobbitish)
2. Replace all VUK with wireform. (This has to be done.)
3. Any Smaug improvements possible are welcome, but I think Smaug will be fine with lighting.
4. Add some LOTR lettering somehwere.
5. Add the $15 Goblin King toy available on Amazon somewhere in the back right.

#12 4 years ago

It looks to me that the ramps and diverters are exactly copies from the whitewood... Is it only me who think they look "prototypish". That maybe can be improved aesteticly in time for production?
I really believe the final TH is going to be amazing.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

They are definitely not changing anything about the drop targets, which is looking like the premier feature of the game, and has vast potential once programmed accordingly. Did anyone notice the test mode, rapid progression firing video of the drop targets? I was amazed at how fast they moved right at the end of the video. I can totally visualize a single open target rapidly moving & zig-zagging across the targets, symbolizing Smaug's exposed scale killshot. That could be the hardest skillshot to hit in pinball.
If they do anything to the drops, maybe they could make them quieter?
» YouTube video

They are a lot quieter with the glass on..LOL

#14 4 years ago

I think they still have time to make some cosmetic changes and they can probably make it look better and less empty. There are some good comments here along with Aurich's comment's about laser cutting the ramps.

I hope the game play we saw improves too but that is going to be harder. It just misses something for me. When I first saw WOZ (and it was a relatively early code release) I was intrigued. I kept watching it and it got better and better and I eventually picked one up. I had been planning to get a Hobbit but right now it just doesn't interest me.

I have first hand experience with just how good JJP's service is and Jack has shown he is good about listening. For now I am out but I will keep watching.

#15 4 years ago

#2 you took directly from a post that I made earlier, lol. I don't know if such a change could be made at this point (sadly, probably not) but it would do wonders in terms of making the entire Smaug area more interactive.

Realistically I say the following things need to be addressed.

1. The book. Enough said. I'm thinking its just a placeholder for what is a far better toy
2. The existing VUK covers. Please bring back the wireforms for the two VUK guides.
3. The incomplete looking Smaug area. Hopefully some of the area has molds added to it for other pieces of Smaug and / or the rest of the mountain.
4. The apron. It doesn't look no where near as nice as the aprons on WOZECLE. What happened to the interactive apron feature?
5. The lack of powder coat on the wireforms. On the LE and Ruby Red's for WOZ they are powder coated. They should be either seaside bronze or gold metallic on The Hobbit.

Doable

1. The orbits and the middle ramp seem to allow for shots to the rear of all 4 pop ups. Please allow the pop ups to have targets on the back of them for additional shots. That would be something new for pop ups and make them more interactive.

Stretches. Hey I can dream, haha.

1. The motorized target bank with shot behind it in front of Smaug
2. Make the Windlance toy an actual motorized canon type toy like in ACDC, T2, STTNG

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

2. Replace all VUK with wireform. (This has to be done.)

There must be a reason for this, as the solid piece must be much more expensive to make as it's solid steel.

As for the game, I still don't get where all the hate is from. "The ball doesn't gobble like JP?!" If it did everyone would bitch about how that was stolen and that their main toy was a rip off. Not to mention in JP it's slow and boring after a few times.

#17 4 years ago

How would a dragon body/tail work when the smaug head is turned away? A dragon with a mountain head?

I think it would look much better if the whole back area was a sculpted mountain range. That way it wouldn't look like a random rock with a dragon on the other side.

#18 4 years ago

The coins on the Smaug model, if they are modelled to scale it will have the effect of making Smaug's head look bigger.

Not a suggestion but more a hope that the table will feel more Middle Earth when its finished. The world is such a massive part of the whole Tolkien universe, I feel it's evident when I play my LOTR, but I don't see it (yet) in the Hobbit.

Come on Jack!!!!

-2
#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

As for the game, I still don't get where all the hate is from. "The ball doesn't gobble like JP?!" If it did everyone would bitch about how that was stolen and that their main toy was a rip off. Not to mention in JP it's slow and boring after a few times.

Just read the threads, man. Or maybe look at the pics. Don't make sense to keep repeating what's been said a zillion times by now. Nobody's demanding Smaug eats balls. Jack's well aware that it's not JJP bashing but constructive criticism.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

They are a lot quieter with the glass on..LOL

Well that's good to know Thanks Jack

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The motorized target bank with shot behind it in front of Smaug

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but with separately controllable drop targets, can't you effectively create this mechanism using software.

#22 4 years ago

I'm going to wait till after iappa. Then I'm sending my topper design to the mod father to see if he wants to make and sell it.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but with separately controllable drop targets, can't you effectively create this mechanism using software.

There also appears to be a shot behind the lower two drop targets in front of the dragon that puts the ball into the "lock" hole.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but with separately controllable drop targets, can't you effectively create this mechanism using software.

Not with the current design. There are 5 drops in front of Smaug. Two of the drops have no stand-up targets behind them (the ones that lead to the left VUK) while the other 3 have stand-up targets. My idea was to leave the 2 far drops on the left in place for the VUK shot but make the other 3 a motorized target bank that goes up and down (AFM, Tron and SM) to reveal a shot behind it in between the target bank and Smaug.

#25 4 years ago

Would be good if Smaug head would turn left and right when speaking, get rid of the rock face and have him sitting there with body
OR body submerged in gold coins and his head comes through a gold coin chain link curtain like he is waking up and he speaks, would only need a revision of motor movement and cosmetic plastics and metal chain link.

-1
#26 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Not with the current design. There are 5 drops in front of Smaug. Two of the drops have no stand-up targets behind them (the ones that lead to the left VUK) while the other 3 have stand-up targets. My idea was to leave the 2 far drops on the left in place for the VUK shot but make the other 3 a motorized target bank that goes up and down (AFM, Tron and SM) to reveal a shot behind it in between the target bank and Smaug.

The whole drop target extravaganca was built for a reason. JJP abandoning their original design idea for the game this close to release wouldn't be a good sign.

#27 4 years ago

I'm not sure what is between the speakers at the top of the back box,
Would be cool it it was a plastic coloured like the arckinstone and a mini motorised light (yes like Stern ST laser on premium models) that projected the colours of the arkinstone onto the glass in a final mode or something.

Edit: looking at the brochure looks like it is a detail of the arkinstone in the centre, might just be detailing or might be something like I mentioned above!

Make it happen Jack

-1
#28 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

I'm not sure what is between the speakers at the top of the back box,
Would be cool it it was a plastic coloured like the arckinstone and a mini motorised light (yes like Stern ST laser on premium models) that projected the colours of the arkinstone onto the glass in a final mode or something.
Edit: looking at the brochure looks like it is a detail of the arkinstone in the centre, might just be detailing or might be something like I mentioned above!
Make it happen Jack

It's a decal. Nothing but a decal. Some day down the road in another game it could be something else..

#29 4 years ago

Not to rain on this parade but you guys are nuts if you think any major changes are going to happen based on your feedback. If anything, Jack has more up his sleeve that was planned, but you just can't go redesigning a game that's been planned now for over 2 years. Sure LCD here, new mountain range there, full Smaug body here...yeah, and who's making these parts? How would they get produced in time for December? He has to launch the game with the film. In the contract. I think Jack and Co. will finish the game off right, but the writing's on the wall...this is a deep code game for those who like that type of game. It's not going to be the interactive dragon fest most of you had in mind. But keep making suggestions. I'll pay out $50 for every one that makes it into production.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I'll pay out $50 for every one that makes it into production.

Not a good bet, even if JJP has changes coming (which I am sure they do and Jack has said as much) all someone has to do is have a lucky guess and claim that is was his idea they used.

#31 4 years ago

Don't change the droptarget feature. Keith will do amazing things with these, that's sure.

Like everybody I don't like the book, to big, does nothing and is simply wrong in showing the first page in the open middle. Hope that's only a placeholder. In this spot it should be a main attraction there, that catches the eye.

Like someone else said, a pinball machine should be a little world under glass and that's what I am missing with the hobbit so far. There is so much empty room and no connection between the features. That's why I was shocked about the expo reveal. With a fantasy theme I don't want to see ugly diverters, there should be something modeled that connects everything. If it will be the tail from the dragon, that would help to make the dragon interactiv and more believable. Let us see the real lonely Mountain. Perhaps something more like White Water.

The dragon head is not bad, the details are great and I think with the light effects and sound it will be a great toy. But the suroundings are ugly and empty. The coins are way to big. He should be the bad guy, the enemy. The big coins let him look to small like a caricature. And if you can't show more of his body, there should be more covering for the place the body should be.

I still don't understand the right flipper, they must have planed something for it but I don't see what?
I hope there will be shots for it that will feel good.

But everything we say here isn't important. I am sure now that the JJP guys know excactly where they want to go with the hobbit. I would only wish they would communicate more about it. I was angry about the Expo reveal, and still don't understand why we only got what we got there. And after all the bad vibrations there and here I was angry about that there were no commends how complete the version there was from what we will get.
I am thankfull for the answers we got from Jack here today. That's what I liked about WOZ, there was so much communication between JJP and the customers. With the hobbit is to much silence about what will be in the game. And how complete that was what we saw at the expo.

My english is to bad to help or take more part in this communication but I like to read more.
I realy liked all the feedback Aurich gave them. Great stuff. He is someone that knows what we want and could bring it to words.

#32 4 years ago

There will be more fluff and function around Smaug, there will be a windlance with controllable diverters, book area enhancements, and overall more eye candy, etc etc. It should be a nice game when done

#33 4 years ago

Here's another take on the entire Smaug area that I posted in another Hobbit thread.

After reading Jacks comments I think that the entire toy will look more complete and interactive after other moldings are placed around the toy. Imagine seeing the Smaug head we see today but with a tail, some of the rest of his body and a more completed mountain landscape around him. At that point the divertor will truly seem like a tail and the divertor near his head will seem like he's stealing pinballs away from you.

Imagine MM with a small molding around the castle door and no other molding for the lock itself and no moving tower pieces for when the castles explodes. If that was the case the castle in MM would seem as interactive as Smaug does today.

Right now everyone see's incomplete areas around Smaug, a divertor between the two ramps and a divertor near Smaug's head that drops off. When the game is complete I think we will see one complete and very interactive toy.

-2
#34 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Here's another take on the entire Smaug area that I posted in another Hobbit thread.
After reading Jacks comments I think that the entire toy will look more complete and interactive after other moldings are placed around the toy. Imagine seeing the Smaug head we see today but with a tail, some of the rest of his body and a more completed mountain landscape around him. At that point the divertor will truly seem like a tail and the divertor near his head will seem like he's stealing pinballs away from you.
Imagine MM with a small molding around the castle door and no other molding for the lock itself and no moving tower pieces for when the castles explodes. If that was the case the castle in MM would seem as interactive as Smaug does today.
Right now everyone see's incomplete areas around Smaug, a divertor between the two ramps and a divertor near Smaug's head that drops off. When the game is complete I think we will see one complete and very interactive toy.

Really? Dressing up the Smaug area with some decorative mountains or something behind it will fix it? I don't think so. Not by a long shot. Smaug is and will continue to be a HUGE disappointment. He's not changing at this point (certainly not drastically as much as needed.)

It sure sounds like the book will be replaced by an lcd. Fine. But considering how disappointing and worthless the crystal ball is in WOZ, an lcd changes little there. It certainly won't interact with a ball directly. Will it have more than 4 or 5 videos like the cyrstal ball in WOZ? It better. Will it be another technical hiccup like the cyrstal ball in WOZ? Hope not (it will be in prime air ball territory.)

The elephant in the room to me is this ... JJP has had 2 years (or 22 months) to get this game to this point. Suddenly people are expecting miraculous changes in just a couple of months (and with Balcer gone to boot?) The game is what it is. An lcd won't save the pf design. They're relying on Keith and software almost entirely at this point I think.

#35 4 years ago

I see you disagree with me Panzer (holy cow you are on here nonstop) and Goronic. So I just want to ask ... if you get the lcd in place of the book, and you get a few decorative pieces surrounding Smaug, that is what you need to make you happy about this game and what you're paying for it? Honest question.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

There will be more fluff and function around Smaug, there will be a windlance with controllable diverters, book area enhancements, and overall more eye candy, etc etc. It should be a nice game when done

Simply making a molded tail that covers the ramp diverter and moves with the diverter would be a huge improvement if it was done right. Then Smaug could be considered to truly physically interact with the ball more than mere mouthing of words. The combination of Smaug talking and using the tail would be a noteworthy toy in my opinion.

The tail could be implemented by making a molded stationary pile of gold between the spinning Smaug head area and then at the diverter have the moving end of the tail feature which would appear to be poking out of the gold pile.

The drop targets will have purpose as there is no doubt Keith with his skill and vison will do some cool things with them.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Simply making a molded tail that covers the ramp diverter and moves with the diverter would be a huge improvement if it was done right. Then Smaug could be considered to truly physically interact with the ball more than mere mouthing of words.

I'm just trying to envision what you're describing and I'm confused how that will not look incredibly awkward when Smaug is turned and hidden by the rock? The tail and head of Smaug will just seem so disconnected like one has nothing to do with the other?

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from OldPinster:

Really? Dressing up the Smaug area with some decorative mountains or something behind it will fix it? I don't think so. Not by a long shot. Smaug is and will continue to be a HUGE disappointment. He's not changing at this point (certainly not drastically as much as needed.)
It sure sounds like the book will be replaced by an lcd. Fine. But considering how disappointing and worthless the crystal ball is in WOZ, an lcd changes little there. It certainly won't interact with a ball directly. Will it have more than 4 or 5 videos like the cyrstal ball in WOZ? It better. Will it be another technical hiccup like the cyrstal ball in WOZ? Hope not (it will be in prime air ball territory.)
The elephant in the room to me is this ... JJP has had 2 years (or 22 months) to get this game to this point. Suddenly people are expecting miraculous changes in just a couple of months (and with Balcer gone to boot?) The game is what it is. An lcd won't save the pf design. They're relying on Keith and software almost entirely at this point I think.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from OldPinster:

I see you disagree with me Panzer (holy cow you are on here nonstop) and Goronic. So I just want to ask ... if you get the lcd in place of the book, and you get a few decorative pieces surrounding Smaug, that is what you need to make you happy about this game and what you're paying for it? Honest question.

That would be a good start - I think there will be more. I am waiting till JJP's says here it is - final. Then I will choose. I am cautiously optimistic. It would say I am 50/50 on keeping my order, but I won't decide until I see final - and play it if all possible.

#40 4 years ago

I would also consider putting a door on the back of the mountain to dress it some. In the movie, finding the door was a big scene and adding it to the mountain would go a little ways in dressing up the playfield.

the-hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-wallpapers-hd-the-lonely-mountain-wallpaper-hd-21.jpg

smaug-2.jpeg

-1
#41 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

That would be a good start - I think there will be more. I am waiting till JJP's says here it is - final. Then I will choose. I am cautiously optimistic. It would say I am 50/50 on keeping my order, but I won't decide until I see final - and play it if all possible.

Well good luck! I hope it blows you away. It amazes me that just 35 years ago I could buy a brand new really nice car (pay for it in full) for $8000. But that kind of money was considered a small fortune and not something taken very lightly. Today, young people drop this kind of money before they even know what they're buying (on faith apparently). Inflation aside, it really is amazing how times change over a lifetime! It's no wonder our country has major debt issues.

#42 4 years ago

I doubt new toys are in the cards: but I think an Eagle toy would be good?

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from OldPinster:

I could buy a brand new really nice car (pay for it in full) for $8000.

That is a lot of cash for sure. Like I said, if I'm not 'feeling it' I won't buy.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Simply making a molded tail that covers the ramp diverter and moves with the diverter would be a huge improvement if it was done right. Then Smaug could be considered to truly physically interact with the ball more than mere mouthing of words. The combination of Smaug talking and using the tail would be a noteworthy toy in my opinion.
The tail could be implemented by making a molded stationary pile of gold between the spinning Smaug head area and then at the diverter have the moving end of the tail feature which would appear to be poking out of the gold pile.
The drop targets will have purpose as there is no doubt Keith with his skill and vison will do some cool things with them.

Something like this very rough/quick paint schematic:
303605.jpg

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I would also consider putting a door on the back of the mountain to dress it some. In the movie, finding the door was a big scene and adding it to the mountain would go a little ways in dressing up the playfield.

smaug-2.jpeg 95 KB

the-hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-w... 78 KB

Awesome idea. Seeing a path leading up to the door like in the film would add a nice touch as well!

#46 4 years ago

I agree with most of the suggestions and also add teeth to smaug. Instead of smaug the magnificent he looks like smaug the tame.

#47 4 years ago

Thank you for taking the time to mock something up that was nice. I see what you're saying now. But, I just do not see how they can possibly make that work visually. Smaug's head sticking through rock? Will look very awkward when his head is turned too? And just from a scale perspective ... based on the size of his head ... that tail should be 5 times further away. I'll be surprised to see what they come up with to make that visually work.

Do you guys understand how the drop targets might work in the game? I'm wondering how they differ from those unique drop target that Multimorphic has been showing in their P3 game for a couple of years now? I know the P3 targets look different, but they seem to have a very unique game-control to them as well, no?

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from OldPinster:

Thank you for taking the time to mock something up that was nice. I see what you're saying now. But, I just do not see how they can possibly make that work visually. Smaug's head sticking through rock? Will look very awkward when his head is turned too? And just from a scale perspective ... based on the size of his head ... that tail should be 5 times further away. I'll be surprised to see what they come up with to make that visually work.
Do you guys understand how the drop targets might work in the game? I'm wondering how they differ from those unique drop target that Multimorphic has been showing in their P3 game for a couple of years now? I know the P3 targets look different, but they seem to have a very unique game-control to them as well, no?

I would also consider making the whole rock/mountain as a pile of gold instead of rock but I am not privy to all the gameplay planned. Having the whole thing as gold would be like Bilbo has woken up Smaug when he turns around to show his face (like when Smaug emerged from under the pile of gold in the movie).

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Something like this very rough/quick paint schematic:

303605.jpg 47 KB

Add black paint to the rock portion around smaugs head and it wont look like his head is attached to a rock.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Add black paint to the rock portion around smaugs head and it wont look like his head is attached to a rock.

305652b.jpg

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