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(Topic ID: 220755)

Help identufying Capacitor, Diode on rollover leaf switch Flash Gordon


By Wisker

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by CactusJack
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

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_schematics (resized).jpg
Bally_1981_Flashcs (resized).png
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#1 2 years ago

Having issues with 3 rollover switches not working on a Flash Gordon and noticed they are all on the same string and one is missing the red capacitor thats in the picture so im thinking maybe that is causing my issue. Looks like it was taking off, says.05m on one side and 12v on other but i cant find a replacement? Could i get help identifying a replacement as well as the glass diode i would like to replace as well if i could find those as well.

On these rollover switches how should they be adjusted theres 3 tabs, should the small middle one be touching the bottom and then not touching either one when the ball rolls over the switch?

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#2 2 years ago

1N4148.

0.047 or 0.05ufd any voltage as the matrix is running at only 5VDC

Yes, one lug on the switch is just used as a solder joint to put the diode in series with the switch. Cap is across the switch contacts.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

1N4148.
0.047 or 0.05ufd any voltage as the matrix is running at only 5VDC
Yes, one lug on the switch is just used as a solder joint to put the diode in series with the switch. Cap is across the switch contacts.

Thanks for the verification, i have search for the 0.047ufd and cannot seem to find where to buy them from?

#4 2 years ago

Those switches are low voltage but are used in a square wave circuit so they are subject to a higher di/dt (high current change over small period of time). You want to use at least a 50V cap in this location to overcome this high current spike. I carry the 50V version but am considering changing to 100V versions.

You can find the 50V ceramic disc type here:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-50V

Can also use the multilayer style ceramic caps "chicklets" in that rating that would work equally well but I don't carry that size - yet.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Those switches are low voltage but are used in a square wave circuit so they are subject to a higher di/dt (high current change over small period of time). You want to use at least a 50V cap in this location to overcome this high current spike. I carry the 50V version but am considering changing to 100V versions.
You can find the 50V ceramic disc type here:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-50V
Can also use the multilayer style ceramic caps "chicklets" in that rating that would work equally well but I don't carry that size - yet.

Ok, i just put in a order.

#6 2 years ago

Is the cap on the stand up the same as these on the rollovers?

#7 2 years ago

Put the game in switch test and make sure the rollover switches are properly registering. A bad or missing cap or diode usually causes the switch not to work at all but if you have 3 switches on the same strobe not working it's probably a problem with the row or column in the matrix. Loose pn on the MPU is typically the culprate.
Exactly which switches are they?

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Put the game in switch test and make sure the rollover switches are properly registering. A bad or missing cap or diode usually causes the switch not to work at all but if you have 3 switches on the same strobe not working it's probably a problem with the row or column in the matrix. Loose pn on the MPU is typically the culprate.
Exactly which switches are they?

The top right three green #02 not working but the bottom #02 in the ball shooter lane works unless i might of mistakened it for the shooter lane roller working, and the 03 doesnt work. I originally was having a issue with the top target 05 not dropping at start of game and figured it was due to not detecting these switches being activated but not sure know. Looking at the wire diagram im not sure which order the switches are in. Im assuming the top single drop target should drop as soon as game is started so the ball doesnt hit the back side of it, i checked the coil jumoing it to another drop target and it is working fine so im guessing now to check the continuity to this solenoid from the board? Any help is much appreciated

20180708_134046 (resized).jpg

#9 2 years ago

So if i'm looking at the schematic right i have the troubled areas in red and the blue is working fine. THe yellow areas i need to verify

Bally_1981_Flashcs (resized).png_schematics (resized).jpg

#10 2 years ago

So those 3 shooter lane switches, #02, are all wired together and work as 1 switch Most likely only one cap and diode are present. with the game in switch test it should flash 02 when any of those 3 top rollovers are closed.
As for the square 02 box in the shooter lane. Square boxes designate coils and coil #2 is the knocker.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

So those 3 shooter lane switches, #02, are all wired together and work as 1 switch Most likely only one cap and diode are present. with the game in switch test it should flash 02 when any of those 3 top rollovers are closed.
As for the square 02 box in the shooter lane. Square boxes designate coils and coil #2 is the knocker.

Please help asap as I am over to a friends working on the pin, on the switches I have replaced all diodes and still not working, check continuity and was good. On the switches there are three leafs, the middle short one is touching the bottom and when the ball pushes the top one down it makes contact with the bottom leaf and the middle should not be touching either one right? The test still showing error, if the adjustment is wrong please advise.

20180714_134020 (resized).jpg
#12 2 years ago

Look closer. The third solder lug is isolated from all the blades. It is just used as a solder point. Third center blade is actually electrically connected to tge other blade (shorter) blade it should be laying against. It is used to stabilize the shorter point blade so it can maintain good pressure when the other blade comes in contact.

Make sure none of these in between blades are not crossing over to the opposing blade (switch always closed)

Otherwise, check for a broken wire at any other switch that shares those wire colors (even ones that ARE working)

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Look closer. The third solder lug is isolated from all the blades. It is just used as a solder point. Third center blade is actually electrically connected to tge other blade (shorter) blade it should be laying against. It is used to stabilize the shorter point blade so it can maintain good pressure when the other blade comes in contact.
Make sure none of these in between blades are not crossing over to the opposing blade (switch always closed)
Otherwise, check for a broken wire at any other switch that shares those wire colors (even ones that ARE working)

Ok so the switch should be open, too and bottom leaf not touching and the middle rested against the bottom for support and not touching the top one. I checked continuity from switch to switch was ok. So switches are open in test mode closed would cause the error

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Wisker:

Ok so the switch should be open, too and bottom leaf not touching and the middle rested against the bottom for support and not touching the top one. I checked continuity from switch to switch was ok. So switches are open in test mode closed would cause the error

Checked all switches made sure the bottom and middle was not touching too and still getting 01 on switch test, checked co trinity between all switches and to mph was good. What can be the issue the diodes I replaced 1n4148? How do i eliminate each switch from circuit to figure out what's going on?

#15 2 years ago

If you get 01 in switch test, one or more of those switches is stuck closed. Unsolder wires from one or all three until you have a zero in switch test (or blank?)

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

If you get 01 in switch test, one or more of those switches is stuck closed. Unsolder wires from one or all three until you have a zero in switch test (or blank?)

Which wires? There's two colors hooked up to top leaf and two on bottom leaf

#17 2 years ago

Both wires of the same color. One is the incoming and the other the outgoing as the wire chains its way down the playfield.

Unless you have something physically grounding out to a switch or wire, removing one like colored pair from each switch is enough to take it out of the circuit.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Both wires of the same color. One is the incoming and the other the outgoing as the wire chains its way down the playfield.
Unless you have something physically grounding out to a switch or wire, removing one like colored pair from each switch is enough to take it out of the circuit.

Ok i did as you stated and narrowed it down to 2 switches, i had changed the diode but not the capacitor so i changed them and the switches started working. How would the capacitors affect the switch to cause it to show as closed? I thought they were for holding power for fast switch activation?

Thanks for the tip cactusjack

#19 2 years ago

Those caps fail. They can short out.

When having weird switch issues, about the first thing to do was clip one lead of the cap right next to the lug.

If the problem went away, you found the bad cap, if not, you could always solder the clipped lead back on.

But now, due to their age, all should be replaced with new ones.

I use the leads full length and wrap them around a small allen wrench to form two shock absorber springs so the leads don't break off from vibration (another common problem back in the day).

#20 2 years ago

Looks like the switch in the one photo has been filed in the past. Needs to have its contacts replaced if so it will never be reliable in the future no matter how many caps and diodes you put on it.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Looks like the switch in the one photo has been filed in the past. Needs to have its contacts replaced if so it will never be reliable in the future no matter how many caps and diodes you put on it.

Good point! The minute someone takes anything but a business card or cotton swab to a gold flashed SS switch point, it is basically destroyed and will require constant attention.

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