(Topic ID: 58934)

HELP! Fish Tales GI issue

By chocky909

10 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by catboxer
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 years ago

I've had my FT for a few months now and some of you may know that I have to remove the head of a pinball to get in and out of my small London flat. Anyway, The seller kindly dismantled before pickup and labelled the connectors for me. Upon reassembly all was well apart from one problem. Half of the GI is on full power permanantly no matter what. I've uploaded a short video to demonstrate the areas affected. Obviously this doesn't affect gameplay much at all so I've just put off fixing it but I'm ready to try to get to the root of it. I have checked the connections and don't see anything too obvious but I'd appreciate some suggestions on what might be causing it.

The GI affected is most obvious at 0m48s when video mode starts and all PF and GI lights should go out.

#2 10 years ago

can't see the video (you have it set to private) but GI I believe is on J120 or J121, check those

#3 10 years ago

Oops. Set to public now.

I have checked those connectors already but they seem fine to me and wiggling doesn't affect it.

The previous owner swears there was no problem and he's a decent sort so I believe him.

#4 10 years ago

Are they burnt, or brown at all? Also check fuses F106 - F110

#5 10 years ago

If all seems good, then find transistor Q14 on your powerboard. It will be one of those mounted on a heatsink in the lower left side (the top most one of them), feel the heat sinks after the machine is been on for about ten minutes, see if it or any are extremely cool. If so see what # transistor it is on there.

#6 10 years ago

Cheers. I'll try all those but it's late now and I can't mess about with it until tomorrow unfortunately.

Did anyone watch the vid? The GI definately isn't supposed to do that is it?

#7 10 years ago

Hi - you are correct the GI lighting is suppose to turn off during the video mode. You said you checked J120, but also check J113. If good, then there is an issue with either the driver transistor or triac. Could also be an issue with the 74LS374 IC chip.

If working before, I would really suspect a connection first - I don't think they can be mixed up, so should be ok there. Double check to make sure they are on correctly and not 1 pin off to the side (done that before and is easily overlooked).

1 month later
#8 10 years ago

Bump

Apologies to those that gave me advice but I haven't got around to having a good look at it until now.

From what people have said, I am thinking that the GI connectors may have some misconnected wires. J120 and J121 are both replacement connectors and both had loose wires and browning. I think maybe when the backbox was removed one or more of the wires may have come out and been replaced in the wrong section. This is based on the assumption that the GI was working correctly for the previous owner.

I have a crimping tool so I can redo those sockets but I'm not sure how to identify which wire should go in where. I have the manual but I struggle to understand it. Maybe a photograph would help?

#9 10 years ago

Update

I'm slightly annoyed now as I found the right page in the manual and redid all the connections for J120 and J121. I was briefly excited to see the GI not come on full power immediately like it has been but then disappointed as I've realised now that GI isn't coming on at all. Also, the fish topper is off too.

I'm going to fiddle about with a few of the suggestions here but I'm getting frustrated. I'm realised I'm not a fan of fixing pinball myself. I like collecting, admiring, playing and watching other people fix them.

#10 10 years ago

Looking at the video, it looks like only the lower GI has the problem. I had a similar but opposite problem with the upper GI. It was a shorted closed Tri-AC transistor on the driver board. Yours might be shorted open. Everyone says these never go bad, but mine did. If none of your GI is on now, it's probably the fuse.

#11 10 years ago

Well it's none of the lower GI.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from DeathHimself:

Are they burnt, or brown at all? Also check fuses F106 - F110

They all seem fine when I use my multimeter on them.

Quoted from DeathHimself:

If all seems good, then find transistor Q14 on your powerboard. It will be one of those mounted on a heatsink in the lower left side (the top most one of them), feel the heat sinks after the machine is been on for about ten minutes, see if it or any are extremely cool. If so see what # transistor it is on there.

All looks fine although I'm not sure what I'm looking for. All the heatsinks seem equally hot though.

Quoted from LongJohns:

Hi - you are correct the GI lighting is suppose to turn off during the video mode. You said you checked J120, but also check J113. If good, then there is an issue with either the driver transistor or triac. Could also be an issue with the 74LS374 IC chip.
If working before, I would really suspect a connection first - I don't think they can be mixed up, so should be ok there. Double check to make sure they are on correctly and not 1 pin off to the side (done that before and is easily overlooked).

I checked J113 and I'm pretty sure it's connected OK. I disconnected and reconnected a few times. I'm not sure how to check the driver transistor or triac or the 74LS374 IC chip.

#13 10 years ago

All the triac heatsinks would be hot if it's shorted open (always on). I think you can swap 120 and 121 to see if it's a wiring issue.

#14 10 years ago

I had an issue (there is a thread) where my GI and pf lights etc would fade out. The boards (cpu/light driver) had to get sent out for repair. If you cannot get 100% confirmation this didn't happen before breakdown it may be a board issue...never know. Good luck.

#15 10 years ago

He swears there were no issues. There are a few other 'quirks' that might be connected. The lower half of the backbox lights used to be glitchy and would only come on if you wiggled them. Since I rewired the connectors they are all on but solidly. Also, the DMD doesn't always display all the dots, especially during boot up, almost like it needs to warm up first. Lastly, the fish topper doesn't light up any more. It used to light up and respond to the game but recently I noticed it had gone off but came back on if you pulled out the right side of J121. Since my rewiring it is off all the time.

Quoted from catboxer:

All the triac heatsinks would be hot if it's shorted open (always on). I think you can swap 120 and 121 to see if it's a wiring issue.

I did swap the J120 and J121 but nothing much seems to change.

I'm suspicious that when I attached new crimps to the wires I may have done one or more badly. I might have to go back and make sure they are contacting properly. Is there a way to do this without physically removing them and looking?

#16 10 years ago

My FT did some of that DMD thing as well. When it was "warmed" up it started working. May be the boards need repair. I sent mine to Clive @ coin op cauldron. Not too expensive, and it fixed all my issues with the game.

My issue...well one
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lights-fade-out

#17 10 years ago

I seem to remember a manual error on one of those connectors, I could be wrong. These pics are from my FT with original connectors, hope they help!!

101_6264.JPG101_6264.JPG 101_6265.JPG101_6265.JPG

#18 10 years ago

I would check the backside of the board and the male header pins. Maybe they are cracked from board flex after you've unplugged and replugged in the connectors a few times. This would explain the fish lights going on and off if you push on the connector or wiring.

#19 10 years ago

Update: Thanks to Pin_Crazed's pics I realised that I had connected the wires in J121 back to front due to not understanding which end was which. Unfortunately redoing it has only returned it to it's original state. So now I have the lower GI on permanently and on full with everything else working normally including the topper lights.

Bit stuck again after all that and back to square one. I should probably double check all my connections on J120 and J121 and perhaps redo some crimping..

I'm open to other suggestions still.

#20 10 years ago

When I bought mine I had to replace the connector because it had clearly seen some heat probably from being left on when it was routed. I'd definitely check the back of the board look for cracked solder on the pins. Still wouldn't explain why the lower GI stays on unless there's a grounding issue possibly on the connector.

#21 10 years ago

You definately need to take the board out and check the back. When that connector burns, it almost always ruins a pin or two. I would get a new header and fix it, it only takes 5 minutes to repair after removing if you can solder decently. It could be burnt to one of the adjacent pins or traces keeping it on...You should also replace the headers and connectors on the dmd controller as well, I would bet it's burnt also causing the "warmup" issue.

#22 10 years ago

Gotta say it again, shorted on Triac transistor.

#23 10 years ago

Here's how I would test the Triac. Go to Diags and see if you can turn off the GI, or dim it down really low. One of those big triac transistors will be much hotter because it's not switching off.

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