(Topic ID: 356472)

Eight Ball Deluxe Blues

By pinballgurus_com

11 days ago


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  • 39 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by barakandl
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#1 11 days ago

Having a few issues with my EBD… I think they could all be related? I have new Weebly boards installed for the CPU, Solenoid Driver, Light Board and Aux Light Board. I’ve rebuilt the power rectifier and the sound board was sent off for repair and worked at the shop. I’ve look thru the entire machine and cannot find what’s causing it.

Here are the issues:

1. Some of the G.I. lighting isn’t working as well as some of the controlled lights (10k, 30k, 50k, Extra Ball, 70k, etc.) on the playfield.

2. Sound board isn’t working. Green light flashes only once and no sound. I think this might have something to do with the lighting issue? TP1 is getting 25v, but I believe it’s supposed to only be 12v so I’m not sure what would cause that?

FYI… The power rectifier board has all the correct voltages on the test points.

3. Machine will tilt when right pop bumper is hit during a game but not during the solenoid test. I’ve tested all the diodes and replaced all the capacitors with new ones, but that didn’t help.

The switch test shows 0… when I engage the right pop bumper during the switch test it shows 7, which is the tilt. After turning on the machine, I’ve unplugged the door and the machine still tilts, and I’ve also disconnected the tilt under the playfield and it still tilts when the right bumper it’s engaged.

I’ve been trying to find this issue for a while now without any luck so I’m really hoping someone else has had a similar issue that can give me some advice/direction going forward.

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#2 11 days ago

Wow, lots of issues. When did all these issues happen? Was it working before you replaced the boards, etc? Have you repinned wire housings?

#3 11 days ago

Is that a playfield overlay or a hardtop? Were components removed from the bottom? Did you test the faulty lights by jumpering power from a working light to test? GI to GI, controlled to controlled?

#4 11 days ago

Just to be certain you are aware, the lights you are pointing to are NOT GI lights, they are controlled.
They may look like GI, but they do a strobe effect when you either hit the 8-ball or go up the left loop.

#5 11 days ago

Replace fuse holder asap.
I see some wires were cut as seen in picture. I would check that out. Check all the other items in the row of Pop and tilt.

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#6 11 days ago

Test each switch individually in switch test from lowest numbered to highest numbered, make sure they all register the *correct* switch number.

Since you have the weebly board, you can use some other software on it to have the switch test show you all the closed switches, williams style - big game v8 will do this, as will most of the bally -17 games. This way you can activate the pop switch and see all the switches the game thinks are closed which might give you a clue where the problem lies. Disconnect the under-playfield solenoid fuse so the chimes in those games don't activate if you use the -17 ones.

There is a test rom which I've sent barakandl but I don't think he's put it in his combo rom yet which also has the enhanced switch and also lamp tests in it.... It's on pinwiki if you can burn roms.

#7 11 days ago

Aren't there supposed to be 3 fuses (not 1) at that location under the playfield.
I am at work so I can't check mine at the moment, but I am pretty sure that there should be 3 fuses in that spot.

#8 11 days ago

I think I see an LED in the solenoid expander light holder. That's not going to work. But, I certainly could be wrong.

#9 11 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Aren't there supposed to be 3 fuses (not 1) at that location under the playfield.
I am at work so I can't check mine at the moment, but I am pretty sure that there should be 3 fuses in that spot.

The '81 version only has one fuse.... the LE and 84 editions might have more. What are the other 2 fuses for? Separate fusing for the drop bank and flippers or something?

#10 11 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Aren't there supposed to be 3 fuses (not 1) at that location under the playfield.
I am at work so I can't check mine at the moment, but I am pretty sure that there should be 3 fuses in that spot.

I know there are usually 3 for LE version and 1 for '81 version. Also the LE version has PCB light boards vs sockets. Must be playfield from an '81 is installed? Pretty sure the harness is a little different so that could be the issue.

#11 11 days ago
Quoted from pindel:

I know there are usually 3 for LE version and 1 for '81 version. Also the LE version has PCB light boards vs sockets. Must be playfield from an '81 is installed? Pretty sure the harness is a little different so that could be the issue.

Some (early) LE versions (like mine) have the sockets instead of the boards. It looks to me like this is an LE (from his 4th picture).

#12 11 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Test each switch individually in switch test from lowest numbered to highest numbered, make sure they all register the *correct* switch number.

This is what you need. ESPECIALLY making sure you test ALL of them and that they are ALL CORRECT... not just the switch that's a problem.

If I remember correctly the lamp voltage and lamp pcb's are both directly responsible for the sound board working properly. Additionally, original Sq+talk sound boards commonly have failed pots and caps that always need to be replaced. So there's two paths to investigate regarding the single flash on the sound PCB.

#13 11 days ago
Quoted from Seamlesswall:

I think I see an LED in the solenoid expander light holder. That's not going to work. But, I certainly could be wrong.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes the relay flutter. I've always assumed that lamp was for enough load to latch to SCR, if so the modified lamp driver board's extra load resistor should take care of it, but i would stick a normal lamp in there for good measure.

Good eye Pindel. Previous rework is always suspect.

It seems like the coin door and tilt switches are a common place for thins to go wrong. Make sure no coin or slam switch is mangled up and leaning on the grounded coin door. Make sure the roll ball isnt stuck back and closed. The tilt bob often has a bare wire to the bobber, make sure it can't touch the nearby bare ground strap wire.

Double check your manual, but I think the lamps that are not working are related to the aux lamp driver. Check the connectors to the aux board first. The ground pin can burn up and cracked solder joints on the male header pins are common.

The sound board uses the GI voltage to make -5vdc. If that is missing your sound board will not boot up all the way. Is the backbox GI lights on?

#14 11 days ago

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I really appreciate it. Today I went thru each switch in switch test mode and made sure they all registered to the proper switch number in the manual and they all do except the right pop bumper which gives me a 7 (tilt). I checked the wiring for that switch and it looks correct on the plug. I also used a switch tester and everything worked perfectly, so it’s definitely the playfield wiring.

I also removed entire tilt assembly on the door and noticed when I moved some of the tilt wiring around it would trigger the right pop bumper when I was touching ground and the tilt wiring. Wouldn’t this mean the issue is something to do with his tilt wire between the side cabinet tilt and the cabinet plug then?

PS… I also went thru and checked a bunch of other wiring and addressed other small issues I was waiting for parts for. It is a new playfield overlay I installed and it’s an old LE model and I believe it is an original playfield.

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#15 11 days ago

The switch matrix is sensitive enough your body can light up an entire return by touching the switch.

#16 11 days ago

Wire harness wire looks like it's been messed with. Can you get a few pictures showing backbox harness and connectors?

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#17 10 days ago
Quoted from pindel:

Wire harness wire looks like it's been messed with. Can you get a few pictures showing backbox harness and connectors?
[quoted image]

Yeah, the wiring harness isn’t great, but it’s mostly from me going thru wires looking for shorts. I’ll send some photos tomorrow. Thanks.

#18 10 days ago

Start a game and disconnect the cabinet harness from the mpu board. See if right pop still tilts. Hopefully to isolate the issue too the PF or the cab wiring.

#19 10 days ago
Quoted from Seamlesswall:

I think I see an LED in the solenoid expander light holder. That's not going to work. But, I certainly could be wrong.

Curious what you mean? This light circled?

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#20 10 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes the relay flutter. I've always assumed that lamp was for enough load to latch to SCR, if so the modified lamp driver board's extra load resistor should take care of it, but i would stick a normal lamp in there for good measure.
Good eye Pindel. Previous rework is always suspect.
It seems like the coin door and tilt switches are a common place for thins to go wrong. Make sure no coin or slam switch is mangled up and leaning on the grounded coin door. Make sure the roll ball isnt stuck back and closed. The tilt bob often has a bare wire to the bobber, make sure it can't touch the nearby bare ground strap wire.
Double check your manual, but I think the lamps that are not working are related to the aux lamp driver. Check the connectors to the aux board first. The ground pin can burn up and cracked solder joints on the male header pins are common.
The sound board uses the GI voltage to make -5vdc. If that is missing your sound board will not boot up all the way. Is the backbox GI lights on?

I have a Weebly AUX light board and it’s showing it is getting 5v on the indicator light.

Here’s the voltages I have on my soundboard.

SOUND BOARD
TP1 - 25v
TP2 - 5.13v
TP3 - 15.6v
TP4 - -4.91v
TP5 - 2.97v
TP6 - 2.83v
TP7 - 16.2v
TP8 - 2.56v
TP9 - 1.24v
TP10 - 2.09
TP11 - 1.35v
TP12 - 4.98

I’ll check the coin doors tomorrow and send more pictures of the back box.

Thanks

#21 10 days ago
Quoted from pinballgurus_com:

Curious what you mean? This light circled?
[quoted image]

Yes, replace that LED bulb with an incandescent one. That bulb is to provide an extra load on the line for the solenoid expander to function correctly.

It's not likely to be the source of your current issues, but it will probably fix others that you haven't noticed yet.

#22 10 days ago
Quoted from pinballgurus_com:

Wouldn’t this mean the issue is something to do with his tilt wire between the side cabinet tilt and the cabinet plug then?

Yes. The tilt assembly (or the RT. pop switch) could have a shorted disc capacitor.

#23 10 days ago

I'm thinking there is a issue with the right TUMPER bumper wiring. When you close that switch you are grounding I6 in the matrix and I would assume all the switches on that row are showing closed but you only see the lowest number which in this case is 7. Next thing to do is to closely examine the wiring at the right bumper looking for something shorting. Remove the capacitor if you have to. If you do not detect anything closely trace out I6 in the harness, a 65 wire per the schematic above, looking at the other switches it is wired to. Finally, examine the matrix column strobe 4 looking for a similar short.

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#24 10 days ago

Also, looking at the matrix,
If the ball was resting in the outhole and the bottom bumper switch was shorted, closing the right bumper switch would cause a tilt to be registered. (or similar situation with one of the inline targets)
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#25 10 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Also, looking at the matrix,
If the ball was resting in the outhole and the bottom bumper switch was shorted, closing the right bumper switch would cause a tilt to be registered. (or similar situation with one of the inline targets)
[quoted image]

I will check the bottom bumper now… thanks!

FYI…
I have noticed that when in solenoid test mode, when the Outhole kicker pulses it also triggers the 3-11 drop target to engage. Not sure if this could be related.

Does anyone have a good video on how the switch matrix operates? And/Or troubleshooting it?

Unfortunately, I don’t have a ROM burner…

How do the voltages on the sound board look? I cannot find anything solid to compare. Just thinking that may give me a clue as to the lighting issue as well.

#26 10 days ago

Double check all your solenoid expanded solenoids have three lugs and two diodes. They are required for those solenoids.
Dots and loops on YouTube (@soren) has a good video on the switch matrix. Not specifically this era but same theory.

#27 10 days ago
Quoted from pinballgurus_com:

I have noticed that when in solenoid test mode, when the Outhole kicker pulses it also triggers the 3-11 drop target to engage. Not sure if this could be related.

That sounds like a solenoid expander issue. Did you replace that LED bulb? If you do, there is a good chance it will solve that issue.

#28 10 days ago

Sounds like a double diode could be missing

#29 10 days ago

Replaced with a bulb. Thanks, I had no idea it was for another purpose.

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#30 10 days ago

Here’s some more photos.

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#31 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Start a game and disconnect the cabinet harness from the mpu board. See if right pop still tilts. Hopefully to isolate the issue too the PF or the cab wiring.

I pulled J3 after starting a game and the machine still tilts.

#32 10 days ago

You have a weebly use one of the enhanced roms with the switch tests that show all closed switches and see what switches close besides tilt with the right pop.

#33 10 days ago

Well I got the pop bumper working now, but now the knocker knocks once when you start a game. Not sure what it’s causing that yet? Now on to the lights and sound issue.

#34 10 days ago

Does it knock at low score some people use that as a form of free play

#35 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Does it knock at low score some people use that as a form of free play

It knocks on the first solenoid hit.

#36 10 days ago

I’m getting 35.5 volts on TP1 on the sound card now. Is it supposed to have 12v?

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#37 10 days ago

Ok. Good news. I got the lights working and the only thing left is the sound. Any sound experts? I’m getting one flash on the sound board.

#38 9 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Does it knock at low score some people use that as a form of free play

Looks like the knock was a Weebly setting… now I just gotta fix this sound.

#39 9 days ago

Your meter is shows 35.5mV which is 0.035v. Your sound board is missing 12v. Check for connector problems.

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