New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 275008)

Help : Bally Fireball Classic 1 amp playfield fuse blowing on power up


By Atariforever

75 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 71 days ago by Atariforever
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 12 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

SEB_Centaur.gif
SEB_Fathom.gif
trans 1 (resized).JPG
SEB image j (resized).jpg
SEB new (resized).jpg
transformer module (resized).JPG
old SEB board and wiring placement (resized).JPG
new SEB wiring placement (resized).JPG
ground reattached (resized).JPG
no ground (resized).JPG
dangle ground (resized).JPG
Bally Fireball Classic sol ex board (resized).jpg

#1 75 days ago

This Fireball Classic machine had some issues when purchased and all have been solved except one..Problem is with the 1 amp SB fuse blowing on initial power up of game..
First of all the game boots up and plays fine. New Alltek Ultimate CPU board. New Alltek lamp board.
All scoring / targets/ displays/bumpers/ flippers/etc are working fine; the only issue is the under playfield 1 Amp SB fuse.

I may have it narrowed down the problem. But need a little help solving the issue.
This is the scenario of the problem
--When i unplug the solenoid expander board and power up the game; the 1amp SB playfield fuse does not blow- the game plays fine except for the spinner not working.
--When i plug in the solenoid expander board and power up the game;the playfield 1amp SB fuse blows - the game still plays fine; the spinner works fine but the pop bumpers/kickers work at a reduced power.
I have replaced the original solenoid expander board with a newer "Great lakes Modular" version with the same results.
I have repinned the connector to the solenoid expander board. All wires match up with the original with the same results
I even have switched the original Solenoid Driver Board with a new Alltek Solenoid Driver Board - still the same results

In a nutshell- To play the game you either have the spinner working and have half power on the playfield because of a blown fuse or replace the fuse and unplug the solenoid expander board and play the game at full playfield power with no spinner.

Have anyone got a suggestion
thanks

#2 75 days ago

One of the coils driven by the solenoid expander has a problem.

#3 75 days ago

On second thought, Fireball Classic doesn’t have a spinner or a solenoid expander Board

#4 75 days ago
Quoted from jj44114:

On second thought, Fireball Classic doesn’t have a spinner or a solenoid expander Board

I think he means the motorized "Spinning disc"

the "solenoid expander boards" are tiny boards that drive the flashing pop bumpers

I am not sure how they are related ..... is the connector keyed correctly on these tiny boards?

#5 75 days ago

Yes the "spinner" in my post is the spinning disc in the center of the playfield. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
The solenoid expander Board is the little board under the back of the playfield

#6 75 days ago

This suggests there should be a lamp socket near it and needs a good bulb http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index3.htm#expand

#7 74 days ago

Attached are two short video clips showing the solenoid expander board working in the attract mode and also during the lamp test mode. I have a newer version of the solenoid expander board installed and i was told that that the 555 bulb does not even need to be installed or working due to the improved design of the newer board. The board seems to working correctly- the blinking light /clicking/ spinner working without the 555 light on. Am i correct?
Maybe my issue is not in the solenoid expander board; but in a coil associated with the solenoid expander board.
Does the solenoid expander board in Fireball Classic control any of the secondary coils as well or is it just the "center spinning disc" ?
All coils seem to work fine in the solenoid test mode.

Attract mode :

Lamp test mode :

#8 73 days ago

Is the ground braid properly attached in the head?

The schematic shows the fuse for the spinning disc on the transformer assembly

Did you place the wire correctly into the connector after re-pinning , is the rejection key in the correct place ?

Bally Fireball Classic sol ex board (resized).jpg
#9 72 days ago

Thanks for the help ;I have looked at your ideas.

The ground braid was not attached in the head? Completely missed that one --see pictures for before and after . After I reattached the ground i tried a new fuse and it blew again- no difference.

The power module fuses in the bottom cabinet are all good. There is no 1 Amp SB fuse in that module. Unsure about that schematic posted. The only fuse affected is the under the playfield 1amp SB.

I have reexamined the wiring to the connector that was redone. I followed the same wire placement as the old connector had. Attached is a before picture and an after picture. They look the same to me .

dangle ground (resized).JPGno ground (resized).JPGground reattached (resized).JPGold SEB board and wiring placement (resized).JPGnew SEB wiring placement (resized).JPG
#10 72 days ago

Can you post a picture of the transformer module?
Would be interesting to see where the spinning motor power wires come from the transformer especially their wire colors.

Some solenoid expander boards (SEB) have the solenoid 43V connected to one of the switch legs on the relay with a wire link. Essentially this link wire connects pin 4 to pin 9 on the plugin connector. This causes havoc with some games when the link is installed when it shouldn't be.

Your original SEB shows that wire link is cut which should be right (you can see the cut jumper link between the diode and the relay on your old board).

Does your replacement SEB have any jumpers links?
Where the yellow-white and yellow-red wires for the spinning disk motor connect at pins 4 and 5 on the SEB, do you measure any continuity to other pins on the connector (other than potentially pin 7, there should be none).

#11 72 days ago

the transformer module

transformer module (resized).JPG
#12 72 days ago

The New SEB used

SEB new (resized).jpg
#13 72 days ago
Quoted from Atariforever:

the transformer module

The power wires for the spinning motor come off the transformer which we don't have full view of in that picture. I can see a yellow-red wire top right corner but can't see where they come from.
Can you post a pic showing less of the rectifier board and more of the transformer?

Is there any instructions with this SEB on how to jumper it?

#14 72 days ago

A closer look at the new SEB with the JMP 1
The transformer picture i will get shortly

SEB image j (resized).jpg
#15 72 days ago

is this picture any better

trans 1 (resized).JPG
#16 72 days ago
Quoted from Atariforever:

A closer look at the new SEB with the JMP 1

If you measure continuity between pin 4 and pin 9 on the connector then you need to cut that JMP 1 jumper. It's connecting solenoid DC power to the spinning disk motor solenoid AC power which is wrong for this game.

#17 72 days ago

See the previous post about the SEB.

In your second picture there is a floating two pin connector with yellow-black and yellow-red wires on one side, and yellow-red and thick red wires on the other side. That connects the transformer to the playfield spinning motor.
The thick red wire has a black cylindrical thing on it which actually contains the fuse for the spinning motor.

#18 72 days ago

unfortunately i'll have to check later- i have to go to work now.
i wish i had more time .....
.i will check that fuse as soon as i get back thanks for now

#19 72 days ago

Keep in mind the solenoid expander is not being used for that function in this game. Instead it's being used as a relay to turn the spinner motor on and off. To that end the jumper makes a difference. I packed away my schematics because I'm moving but if somebody would post the solenoid expander schematic we can see how the board jumper should be set.

#20 72 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

if somebody would post the solenoid expander schematic we can see how the board jumper should be set.

Hi BigAl56, the online Fireball Classic schematics are missing the SEB schematic - not sure if they're in the real paper schematics.

What I can tell from the pictures above:
The fused motor wire connects to the orange wire on the transformer which is solenoid 43 volts AC. This leads directly to the spinning disk motor as the yellow-black wire.
The yellow-red wire connects to the other transformer solenoid 43 volts AC wire which is green.
This yellow-red wire goes to the playfield at pin 4 of the solenoid expander which is the relays common switch arm.
Pin 5 of the solenoid expander is the relays N.O switch contact and connects to the motor as a yellow-white wire.
Pin 9 on the solenoid expander is 43 volts DC used to power the relay.

If pin 4 is jumpered to pin 9 on the SEB then this is shorting the 43 volts DC (after the bridge rectifier) to the 43 volts AC (before the bridge rectifier).
In my mind, that jumper on the SEB needs to be removed so the relay switch is isolated from the DC side of solenoid power.
The picture of the original SEB above shows that jumper is cut.

#21 72 days ago

-- I checked the fuse in the floating two pin connector in the cabinet next to the transformer and the fuse was fine. Not blown.
-- I checked for continuity between pin 4 and pin 9 on the connector and could not get any continuity.
-- I reread my old notes from a previous repair attempt late last year and it looks like the original SEB did have the jumper attached; and i cut it off to try the original SEB board in the machine without the jumper.

#22 72 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Where the yellow-white and yellow-red wires for the spinning disk motor connect at pins 4 and 5 on the SEB, do you measure any continuity to other pins on the connector (other than potentially pin 7, there should be none).

Have you checked this ^^^ with the SEB installed?

#23 71 days ago

i could not get any continuity on those pins noted . No continuity on pin 7 as well.
Continuity test- power off in machine-- diode setting on meter-- one lead on each area noted - correct ?

#24 71 days ago

Below is the solenoid expander schematics on Fathom and Centaur.
When the relay is Off, pin 4 is switched to pin 7.
When the relay is On, pin 4 is switched to pin 5.

The Fathom setup shows the purpose of the jumper is to connect pin 4 to pin 9 (which is 43V DC solenoid power). This setup switches solenoid 43VDC power between two banks of solenoids on the playfield.

You need to cut that jumper on the SEB for Fireball Classic. It's shorting 43VAC coming in on pin 4 to 43VDC which is coming in on pin 9 and is causing the playfield 43VDC solenoid fuse to blow.

Scroll down to barakandl's solenoid expander board on this link - you can see it specifically states to cut the jumper for Fireball Classic.
https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html

To check the continuity previously mentioned:
Machine OFF.
Set your meter to low ohms range.
Touch both meter leads together - the multi-meter should show near zero ohms indicating continuity.
Put one meter lead on pin 4.
The other meter lead on pin 7 should make the meter indicate near zero ohms for continuity.
Move that meter lead from pin 7 to pin 9 and you should again see the meter indicate near zero ohms (assuming you haven't cut the jumper yet).

SEB_Fathom.gif
SEB_Centaur.gif

#25 71 days ago

just checked the continuity from pin 4 to pin 7 -it did show show zero ohms
just checked the continuity from pin 7 to pin 9 -it did show show zero ohms

i will now go cut the jumper and see what happens

#26 71 days ago

I cut the jumper in the new SEB. Turned on game and the fuse did not blow......
Everything worked perfect. The spinner and full playfield power.
Thank you very much for the help in getting this game to 100%

#27 71 days ago
Quoted from Atariforever:

I cut the jumper in the new SEB. Turned on game and the fuse did not blow......
Everything worked perfect.

Cool.
And there were no instructions that came with the new solenoid expander board explaining the jumper?

#28 71 days ago

Nowhere on the instructions did it say to cut the jumper for a specific game.
One simple small cut..wow
thanks again

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 49.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 8.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
From: $ 14.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 119.95
Boards
Allteksystems
$ 9.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
From: $ 155.00
From: $ 140.00
$ 149.95
Boards
Allteksystems
From: $ 45.00
Displays
PinballSolutions.eu
From: $ 25.00
Boards
nvram.weebly.com
$ 149.00
4,200
Machine - For Sale
Denton, TX

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside