(Topic ID: 189590)

Help / Advice on Troubleshooting Capcom Flipper Football


By harryhoudini

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 months ago by harryhoudini
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Banners_and_Alerts_and_Capcom_1996_Flipper_Football_Schematics_pdf (resized).jpg
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#1 3 years ago

Got this as a project. I don't know anything about Capcom but looking over the manual and the game it looks nicely organized in some respects, odd in some others. The game powers on in that the backbox light turns on, all of the fuse LED indicators turn on and the status LEDs on the CPU board (two of them) and on the soundboard (two of them) all turn on. There is 5v at the power connectors on the CPU board and on the control board. No playfield lights, no display, no sounds.

Took out CPU board, no visible damage or blown anything. Looking at the control board I don't see any issues either.

What I would love to know is how to diag the display. Or better yet, what should I expect from the game based on what is wrong. Assuming the power board is ok (I replaced it with another, looks good) then it would likely either be the CPU or Display, no? I assume if the CPU and display are both working then I'd get something on the display. Would I also get GI or does that require the control board to work? If the game made some sounds, had some playfield lights I'd know it's DMD almost 100% (or display driver board) but without any of those indicators I hate to blindly by parts.

Any help on what to look for as indicators?

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

What I would love to know is how to diag the display.

With any display you need Data and Power. Most of the time a portion of the power is not working. You will need to post a page of the manual that shows to power inputs to the display.

#3 3 years ago

grumpy here are the relevant board layouts. I have boards out but I'll put them back in and confirm. I assume if I test ground to 18v and 5v I should see those figures. Not sure why it is +5 versus just 5?

I'm fairly sure I checked voltage on all boards before I pulled them, but doesn't hurt confirming. I'd really like to rule out CPU if possible since I have the option to grab one and they aren't common. I am fairly sure the power supply board is good since all LEDs light up on the fuses. In fact the LEDs for the fuses light up on the sound board as well and the two LEDs on the CPU board light up.

Since power is there (presumably, will confirm) I am leaning towards CPU since the game is mostly just dead. No GI.. no sound, no display. But unsure how to confirm that.

Capcom_1996_Flipper_Football_Schematics_pdf (resized).jpg

Banners_and_Alerts_and_Capcom_1996_Flipper_Football_Schematics_pdf (resized).jpg

#4 3 years ago

The 5 and 18 are on J1 which is not powering the display. J2 is powering the display and you need to find out what VSN, VRW, VCM, VSP and VCC are. Then you can test these points the GND terminal on the display. I think that FF has a plasma display and there will need to be some high voltage this connector, but I am not a Capcom owner so you will need to help me help you.

#5 3 years ago

It has a large DMD, unique to the game but just a DMD still.

Schematics are here in a handy PDF: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/3945/Capcom_1996_Flipper_Football_Schematics.pdf

Sadly the manual online has a diagram of the board itself that I posted, no schematic.

I looked at a Pinball Magic manual (http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/3596/Capcom_1995_Pinball_Magic_Manual.pdf) and from what I see it does not have the same display power board as the FF, which makes sense since the FF display is unique.

I have a printed manual at home, I will look in it to confirm if it has the schematic.

Since we don't know the game itself, I am sort of surmising that I should be seeing more action out of the game when it first turns on, even if the DMD is dead. Would that make sense? The only other thought I have is that it might be waiting for a prompt but seems unlikely that the GI would be off at that point. I pushed all the buttons to see if possibly I could get it to "factory reset" like other games prompt for when no stored settings, in case it was just the DMD.

#6 3 years ago

I did find this little tidbit, so that might give something to go on when I measure voltages. I'll install the boards and measure when I get home and also look in the manual.

Capcom Dot Matrix Displays.
Williams and Gottlieb and DataEast/Sega/Stern 128x32 dot matrix displays will work in Capcom games. But for the record, the dot matrix display voltage differences between Capcom and Williams are (Williams in parends):

-110 volts (-125)
-98 volts (-113)
+68 volts (+62)
+5 volts (+5v)*
+12v volts (+12v)*
*Required for logic only, not High Voltage drive.
But the problem with the Capcom displays is this: the display power supply is often faulty. There are a few diodes that must be replaced, as the original diodes do not switch fast enough. A known good Williams or DataEast/Sega/Stern or Gottlieb 128x32 dot matrix display may not work in a Capcom game, unless the display power supply is modified.

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 95-017a
DATE: DECEMBER 26, 1995
TO: ALL DISTRIBUTORS GAME: PINBALL MAGIC
SUBJECT: HALF OF DOT DISPLAY GOES BLANK IN DIAGNOSTICS ONLY
AFFECTED GAMES: PM SERIAL NUMBER PB0001029 TO PB0001130

IF HALF OF THE DISPLAY GOES BLANK DURING DIAGNOSTICS MAKE THE FOLLOWING COMPONENT CHANGES ON THE DISPLAY POWER SUPPLY PCB (A0015502). THIS CONDITION IS IN DIAGNOSTIC MODE ONLY, AND DOES NOT EFFECT ATTRACT OR GAME MODES.

NOTE: ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO CHANGE THE COMPONENTS UNLESS THERE IS A PROBLEM, IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THESE CHANGES ARE MADE BEFORE A PROBLEM OCCURS.

CHANGE DIODES D4, D5 AND D6 FROM 1N4936 TO MUR160 (MOTOROLA). THESE ARE FAST RECTIFYING DIODES, AND WILL REDUCE THE POTENTIAL FOR THERMAL PROBLEMS WITH THE DRIVER.
REMOVE CAPACITOR C6 (6800pF 100V).
CHANGE RESISTOR R6 FROM 47KW 1/2 WATT TO 15KW 1 WATT.
PLEASE CONTACT FIELD SERVICE WITH ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU.

http://www.pinrepair.com/capcom/

But also to note that this display isn't 128x32, it's 256x64. So probably some difference in power but still might be a baseline.

#7 3 years ago

Oh boy.. where to start.

First, the manual is plain wrong. There is no "sub" power board for the display. There are only two connectors in use for the display, one is the ribbon cable and the other is the power. I have some pics and a video I am uploading.

Second thing is that the previous owner, at least according to my research of what I can find online, had some connectors in the wrong spots. The manual has them in one position and the online pics I found have them in another position. Either way, no difference in the result.

I tested power to the CPU, 5v is good. I tested power to the DMD, it should have 5v and 18v ... it has 5v and 22v or so. Not sure if that is an issue, I doubt it is.

From what I can see all of the boards are getting the low voltage power they should.

My logic is that the power board gets input from the transformer. It sends power to the various sub boards/elements. The CPU gets power and tells the driver board what to do (turn on GI, flash this light, signal this coil) and the driver board, in turn, tells the CPU what is going on (this switch got hit). The CPU tells the display what to show. So if the display is off and no lights are on but the power is correct to everything it seems to me it is more likely that the CPU is bad than anything else. But the CPU has the two LEDs on which makes me question that a bit. Maybe the DMD and the driver board are bad, I guess. There is a sub switch board but it's more of an interconnect, it looks like, and that wouldn't affect the DMD.

I found someone selling a FF and asked if they would take some pics and/or video. I assume if the game is working there are GI lights and sounds at first turn on, even if the batteries are dead (they are on the stupid memory chips). Would just like to see if everything is correctly plugged in (there are unused plugs in the cabinet, assuming for other games) and what the bootup looks like.

Here is my archive of photos. At the end are the most recent that I took for you. There is a video near the end as well with all of the boards as the are when the game is on.
https://goo.gl/photos/mG54iZLsjDCJVsBk9

Thanks!

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

But the CPU has the two LEDs on which makes me question that a bit.

Having power at the board doesn't mean the board booted correctly and is transmitting data. You need to find out how you can tell if the cpu has booted and is running code.

#9 3 years ago

Totally, that's the question I am asking.

I have to assume it is not. If it were at least SOMETHING would be happening... GI.. or DMD.. or sounds.. or something. To have all of those things not working seems a bit coincidental since I am fairly sure the power board is good now.

I think I'm just going to bite the bullet on the CPU and see what happens. At that point it can only be one or two other things and the value of the game still holds based on what I paid.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I think I'm just going to bite the bullet on the CPU and see what happens.

Not sure what you mean? Is there someone selling replacements?

#11 3 years ago

I have a line on one from another member, maybe I didn't mention that. I'm going to grab it and at least that gives one more datapoint.

2 years later
#12 5 months ago

Having reset issues on mine?
Any opinions?

#13 5 months ago

What are the symptoms? When did it start?

On B/W games resets are usually due to 5v line being low which points back to the power board. I know capcom is somewhat different but I think there is still a power board if I recall. So might want to trace down those circuits or test points and make sure the power is right.

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