(Topic ID: 287265)

help a newbie identify parts for ordering

By Pin_Fandango

8 months ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Pin_Fandango
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#1 8 months ago

Hello everyone.
It is 1991 and it is the summer, I go to the arcades looking for something fun... Street fighter II had been the go to game for the last year or so and could not find anything... Terminator II had just come out and boom, with the limited money I had I said, well let's give a try and the rest is history. Terminator II got me into pinball at 11 years old.

Fast forward 30 years I got myself a T2 for my 40th birthday, I got this game 2 weeks ago exactly...
It is in great shape but I would like it to be better and electronically sound! I found some little flaws from previous owners or onsite techs (looks like the machine has not been on site for the last 4-5 years or more) regardless it is in very good shape.

If you are still here, thank you for you help. Without further due this is what I need guidance with:

1- In the board below, the white connector seems to not be making contact properly (I examined the board and the solder is not cracked)
Thing I will need here:
White connector. is this a molex connector or does the punch down type have a different name? Can this be replaced with the non punch down type?
Cables green and white (do not know what gauge) Are these cables a common size, I would like to get the right colours to preserve the factory look. Where do I buy the cable?
Heat shrink tubbing for said gauge

IMG_5352 (resized).jpeg

2- In the photo below, this connector has had a cable cut off and patched with the wrong gauge cable (brown)

What is the best way to fix this? The cable harness is quite long I think I can pull some from the bottom, it is quite a task to do that and wondering if it worth just properly soldering a properly color coded extension and recrimp with a new connector.
What approach should I use?

IMG_5394 (resized).jpeg

3- In the next photo below the connector seems to be different than the rest, different type of connector and also incorrect size (one pin has not been connected - even though it has not cable going to it but that is ok, it is all about consistency. I would like to make it proper.

Same as in the previous point, one cable has been patched with the incorrect color coded cable.
also the crimping is incorrectly done and the insulation is pulled down.

Is this connector type better than the push down type from the factory?

IMG_5397 (resized).jpeg

I have been watching videos on how to crimp and already looked at few POST here by GEP and looking at purchasing his crimper. I am a sucker for tools that set me up for success!
I am confident I can do the crimping, I worked in IT for years making connectors for networks so this is somewhat similar.

The part that worries me is how to work around the cables that have been patched and now being short I have either pull the harness up which means disassembling the hose or maybe I am better off just soldering an extension...?

I am in Canada and do not have a lot of good electronic stores around here. I sent an email to one store nearby yesterday and my email has been ignored..

so I think I am going to stick with what is recommended here, I looked at Marco but dont have good tools there. I am interested in getting myself a good kit of crimp and molex, connector and cables, so I am ready to tackle all of this.
I have also some soldering experience and I am good at it.

Looking forward to hearing your responses and recommendations!

#2 8 months ago

Try Ed at GPE.
He's a great resource for your IDC connectors, and others.
IDC = insulation displacement connector.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/

#3 8 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Try Ed at GPE.
He's a great resource for your IDC connectors, and others.
IDC = insulation displacement connector.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/

I am glad you mentioned it, I saw one of his posts yesterday and I sent him a message here, I am wondering if he checks those...

#4 8 months ago

From a Canadian perspective...

- digikey.ca has very fast & cheap shipping to Canada, you can get a lot of connectors and other electronic parts; you can get a KK-156 connector kit there
- ratcheting open barrel crimper works very well: amazon.com link »
- I like this wire stripper: amazon.com link »
- look for hookup wire kits in 18GA and 22GA stranded (amazon.ca sells the Remington brand like amazon.com link »)
- with oil-based paint pens and a drill, you can make whatever striped wire you need

That Molex connector in your picture should probably be redone. The pin should grab the insulation of the wire.

You can buy striped wire from http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=WIR

#5 8 months ago

There’s an IDC tool to punch the wires into their spot, I’d grab one although I do find them frustrating sometimes.

Photo 1- I would dump the wire nuts and redo those connections.

#2 concerned about what’s under that black tape. If u can re punch that brown wire I wouldn’t worry about replacing the whole thing personally.

#3 yeah, def. redo all of those with a better crimp - on the wire insulation. Those connectors aren’t terrible, not sure if they have they ‘locking’ tabs though.

The crimper linked above is great, I use and love it.

#6 8 months ago

IDC connectors should have never been invented. Insulation Displacement is a WAY wrong way to describe them. They CUT into the small strands of copper wire and you never end up with a complete connection. Molex connectors on the other hand fully encompass the pins therefor insuring a complete connection. As far as the wires are concerned, what I have done many times is find the exact color match or as close as possible and splice a piece of wire long enough and even too long (easy to cut excess) and use it. Trying to borrow slack from the loom will result in everything ending up in a bind. I use solder and shrink tubing to make the splice look as good as possible. Those are general illumination wires and they are inadequate for the amount of bulbs that are on each line. If you put LEDs in the game, that problem will go away. I always redo the GI connectors and the headers too if there is any kind of heat damage. There are threads on this site you can buy wire from. Even if you dont put the exact same color, its better than wrong sized wire and poorly addressed problems.

#7 8 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

From a Canadian perspective...
- digikey.ca has very fast & cheap shipping to Canada, you can get a lot of connectors and other electronic parts
- ratcheting open barrel crimper works very well: amazon.com link »
- I like this wire stripper: amazon.com link »
- look for hookup wire kits in 18GA and 22GA stranded (amazon.ca sells the Remington brand like amazon.com link »)
- with oil-based paint pens and a drill, you can make whatever striped wire you need
That Molex connector in your picture should probably be redone. The pin should grab the insulation of the wire.
You can buy striped wire from http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=WIR

perfect, I am going to order those tools

I have questions for you, please. I am also in Ottawa btw!
So 18 and 22 gauge is all I need for pinball? is that crimp rated for all gauges? I see it says AWG 10-20 does that make sense?

Also, can I replace all this push down type connectors with the other type molex?

What size connectors do I need for pinball? I know the spacing is .156 but is there any other detail I need to know?
I am thinking that the connector for 18 gauge and 22 are different? I am talking when making the connection with the crimper...

I am trying to reduce the amount of error I will be introducing in my orders.

You are also mentioned paint and a drill, you are saying to wind the cable and paint at the same time? did I get that right? good idea! maybe I will do that next time, I think I will get the wire already made first from the other link you sent....

#8 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

perfect, I am going to order those tools
I have questions for you, please. I am also in Ottawa btw!
So 18 and 22 gauge is all I need for pinball? is that crimp rated for all gauges? I see it says AWG 10-20 does that make sense?
You are also mentioned paint and a drill, you are saying to wind the cable and paint at the same time? did I get that right? good idea! maybe I will do that next time, I think I will get the wire already made first from the other link you sent....

Quoted from pinballshack:

IDC connectors should have never been invented. Insulation Displacement is a WAY wrong way to describe them. They CUT into the small strands of copper wire and you never end up with a complete connection. Molex connectors on the other hand fully encompass the pins therefor insuring a complete connection. As far as the wires are concerned, what I have done many times is find the exact color match or as close as possible and splice a piece of wire long enough and even too long (easy to cut excess) and use it. Trying to borrow slack from the loom will result in everything ending up in a bind. I use solder and shrink tubing to make the splice look as good as possible. Those are general illumination wires and they are inadequate for the amount of bulbs that are on each line. If you put LEDs in the game, that problem will go away. I always redo the GI connectors and the headers too if there is any kind of heat damage. There are threads on this site you can buy wire from. Even if you dont put the exact same color, its better than wrong sized wire and poorly addressed problems.

Good advice, agreed on borrowing from the slack of wire not ideal unless it is done right...it will be too labour intensive, I am leaning towards splicing and extending the wires if anything.
I think I will buy the wire, make the connectors with about 6" of wire and then do some surgery and solder these to the original wires, cover with shrink tubing.... That is a better plan I think.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

perfect, I am going to order those tools
I have questions for you, please. I am also in Ottawa btw!
So 18 and 22 gauge is all I need for pinball? is that crimp rated for all gauges? I see it says AWG 10-20 does that make sense?
Also, can I replace all this push down type connectors with the other type molex?
What size connectors do I need for pinball? I know the spacing is .156 but is there any other detail I need to know?
I am thinking that the connector for 18 gauge and 22 are different? I am talking when making the connection with the crimper...
I am trying to reduce the amount of error I will be introducing in my orders.
You are also mentioned paint and a drill, you are saying to wind the cable and paint at the same time? did I get that right? good idea! maybe I will do that next time, I think I will get the wire already made first from the other link you sent....

I'm not an expert, but for a WPC machine like T2 all you need is 18GA and 22GA.
Good eye on the crimp die, unfortunately I don't see the other crimpers on amazon.ca; I did buy one but that was a few years ago. You should be able to find one on amazon.com. The ratcheting crimpers allow you to do a crimp with one squeeze.

I have a dowel with a hole drilled in it. I pull some wire, twist it with the drill, run the paint pen down and then untwist.

#10 8 months ago

great idea, where do you buy the paint pens?

Quoted from dr_nybble:

I'm not an expert, but for a WPC machine like T2 all you need is 18GA and 22GA.
Good eye on the crimp die, unfortunately I don't see the other crimpers on amazon.ca; I did buy one but that was a few years ago. You should be able to find one on amazon.com. The ratcheting crimpers allow you to do a crimp with one squeeze.
I have a dowel with a hole drilled in it. I pull some wire, twist it with the drill, run the paint pen down and then untwist.

#11 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

great idea, where do you buy the paint pens?

You may have to use silver instead of grey, depends on what colours the pens come with. I spin the wire so it has a twist about every 1-2", pull it pretty taut (other end is in a vise) and then run the pen down before reversing the drill.

I use acrylic pens but for some reason, certain colours don't go on well to the wire jacket. Thinking oil-based ones will do better.

amazon.com link »

#12 8 months ago

Congratulation on our machine!

Nearly everything in this post is subjective and the IDC vs crimp battle always continues.

I can only speak about what I know to be facts.

The assumed fact that someone replaces an IDC connector in a 25 year old machine and never has an issue means these connectors are far superior. But the reality is they fail to account for the fact that they have a machine in home environment where the machine is rarely if ever moved where as the original machine was likely a location machine that was packed up and bounced down all kinds of roads countless times in its lifetime. Not the mention we are completely ignoring any maintenance that this machine had in its entire lifetime, BOTH IDC and Molex crimp connectors have a lifecycle of 25 actions before the plating on the connectors breaks down, that's 12.5 times a connector can be removed and replaced ... no one ever mentions this. When a connector fails its ALWAYS the header to socket connection that burns, I've rarely ever seen a failure at the wire to connector side of an IDC...I have seen crimp connectors burn at the wire to crimp though in high vibration areas.

The crimp connections are only as good as the tools and person making the crimp, looking at your picture you can see the oval shaped crimp on a round wire
pasted_image (resized).png
the person that did this crimp not only cut strands of wire but used a substandard squeeze type multi-purpose crimper that is NOT designed for this type of pin and will likely loosen over time.

Here's a simple fact that is hard to ignore. I have a STTNG that I restored by myself in 2015, it has 100% IDC connectors all but two are original to the machine. I have had zero connector issues on this machine since its restoration. In my book that makes IDC connectors flawless as most of them have been in operation for over 25 years.

The original connectors were manufactured by Pancon and were MAS-CON type connectors; these are extremely hard to find nowadays and nearly every connector used in a pinball machine were 22AWG connectors regardless of the wire size shoved into them. The one in your picture below is a Pancon MAS-CON CE156F22-9 connector. Connector End type size .156 for 22AWG wire with 9 connections.
pasted_image (resized).png

That's my 2 cents into this subject whatever that's worth.

#13 8 months ago

Get one of these tools. Then you will be able to properly push the wires back in those connectors.

https://www.pinballlife.com/0156-396mm-idc-wire-insertion-tool.html

#14 8 months ago

I wouldn't reuse connectors.

#15 8 months ago
Quoted from Karetaker:

Get one of these tools. Then you will be able to proper push the wires back in those connectors.

Or this one:
https://www.pinballlife.com/pancon-156-idc-termination-tool.html

That one is no kidding the best tool for the job;
These were also MUCH less expensive (by half) 5 years ago when I purchased mine.

I learned long ago to purchase things I may need when I see them as you may never find it again when you actually need it.

On the flip side, I have an overabundance of obsolete pinball parts I will likely never use.

#16 8 months ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

I wouldn't reuse connectors.<

I wouldn't reuse connectors.

Gpe I sent you a message. Can you give me a hand with the connectors I need?

#17 8 months ago

I hate IDC’s. First thing I do is replace every single one.

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#18 8 months ago
Quoted from Travish:

I hate IDC’s. First thing I do is replace every single one.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That is exactly what I want to do.

Could someone give me some pointers confirm what size connectors I need?

I have been checking the forum and I know I need both 18g and 22g wire.

But are all molex connectors the same size for either wire (.156) or do I need smaller too (.100)

I just want to make sure I am ordering everything I need on the first go, I hate placing an order to learn the next day I forgot a 5 dollar item that is vital to complete my work.

I am also looking at getting wire from
Amazon and hookup wire pricing varies.
What does copper thinned mean?

I dont want cheap wire in my game, I’ll be spending a lot of energy and time rebuilding connectors last thing I want is to do it with cheap components.

Any tips from your experiences are welcome.

#19 8 months ago

You want tinned, stranded wire: https://sciencing.com/tinned-copper-wire-5879934.html

If you get it from Planetary Pinball it will be the same wire used by Williams.

There are some 0.100 connectors I think like for the switches.

I wouldn't think of replacing all connectors, especially if I'd never repinned before. Do the problem ones.

#20 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I dont want cheap wire in my game, I’ll be spending a lot of energy and time rebuilding connectors last thing I want is to do it with cheap components.

This is good wire: PVC coated - Tinned copper
22 AWG - UL1007 Stranded Wire (7/30)
https://www.remingtonindustries.com/hook-up-wire/hook-up-wire-22-awg-stranded-or-solid-10-colors-7-sizes-available/

18AWG - UL1007 Stranded Wire (16/30)
https://www.remingtonindustries.com/hook-up-wire/hook-up-wire-18-awg-stranded-solid-10-colors-7-sizes-available/

This is the best wire (military/aircraft grade): PTFE coated - silver plated copper
22AWG - MIL-W-16878/4 Type E Stranded Wire (19/34)
https://www.remingtonindustries.com/hook-up-wire/hook-up-wire-22-awg-ptfe-stranded-10-colors-7-sizes-available/

18AWG - MIL-W-16878/4 Type E Stranded Wire (19/30)
https://www.remingtonindustries.com/hook-up-wire/hook-up-wire-18-awg-ptfe-stranded-10-colors-7-sizes-available/

#21 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Or this one:
https://www.pinballlife.com/pancon-156-idc-termination-tool.html
That one is no kidding the best tool for the job;
These were also MUCH less expensive (by half) 5 years ago when I purchased mine.
I learned long ago to purchase things I may need when I see them as you may never find it again when you actually need it.
On the flip side, I have an overabundance of obsolete pinball parts I will likely never use.

I never used one of those but it does look like it would make life a little easier. Quite a price tag on it though.

#22 8 months ago

Its worth every penny; a Pancon connector fits in it perfectly and the spring tentioner locks it in place to aligning it perfectly for punching in the wires...this is what the small ridges on these connectors are for and all it takes is a small push on the edge of the connector to lock it in place for the next wire. I used this and its .100 counterpart countless times to manufacture wiring harnesses.

#23 8 months ago

Any tips to distinguish .100 connectors from .156

I am going to contadt GPE with a list of things I need but I dont know what is what...

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Any tips to distinguish .100 connectors from .156

The physical size of the connector is a dead giveaway. A .100 connector has pins spaced 0.1" (2.54mm) apart and a .156 connector/header has pins spaced 0.156" (3.96mm) apart. If you look at your CPU board, the power connector on the right edge of the board is a .156 and the signal connectors on the bottom of the board are all .100s.

This will be listed as the connector or headers pitch and can be in mm or inches.

Picking the right pins headers and connectors can be a little tricky as they all may or may not be compatible with each other. Some connector pins may not lock properly into a different manufatures connectors and give you all kinds of issues ... there are compatibility and selection charts available but some of them may as well be written in Sanskrit if you don't know what you are looking at. To help with this, some websites may have a a link to compatable parts when you choose one of these items.

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

The physical size of the connector is a dead giveaway. A .100 connector has pins spaced 0.1" (2.54mm) apart and a .156 connector/header has pins spaced 0.156" (3.96mm) apart. If you look at your CPU board, the power connector on the right edge of the board is a .156 and the signal connectors on the bottom of the board are all .100s.
This will be listed as the connector or headers pitch and can be in mm or inches.
Picking the right pins headers and connectors can be a little tricky as they all may or may not be compatible with each other. Some connector pins may not lock properly into a different manufatures connectors and give you all kinds of issues ... there are compatibility and selection charts available but some of them may as well be written in Sanskrit if you don't know what you are looking at. To help with this, some websites may have a a link to compatable parts when you choose one of these items.

Oh this is not good news. So you are saying that I can get connectors and might not connect properly to the pins...

That isnt great news for sure.

My boards, both driver and cpu are rottendog

#26 8 months ago

Make sure to get some keying pins as well to avoid the risk of misaligning the connectors.

They go in the pin position where the missing pin is on the header.

#27 8 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Make sure to get some keying pins as well to avoid the risk of misaligning the connectors.
They go in the pin position where the missing pin is on the header.

Yeah getting those for sure.
I have also found another problematic connector today.
Damm I hate when people do hack jobs, I happy that none of these are permanent.

I will contact GPE in the US tomorrowand get the connectors there, been reading good reviews and he has all the good connectors for pinball, to hopefully avoid incompatibility.

#28 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I will contact GPE in the US tomorrowand get the connectors there, been reading good reviews and he has all the good connectors for pinball, to hopefully avoid incompatibility.

Sounds like a solid plan G-P-E will know what parts you need.

#29 8 months ago

Skimmed and didn't see anyone posted this..sorry if someone beat me to it. 3rd pic - J121 looks to be misaligned. Looks like you have a pin dangling on the right of the connector not connected. Is it seated / put on properly?

#30 8 months ago
Quoted from tommyp:

Skimmed and didn't see anyone posted this..sorry if someone beat me to it. 3rd pic - J121 looks to be misaligned. Looks like you have a pin dangling on the right of the connector not connected. Is it seated / put on properly?

it is the incorrect size connector... somebody did that repair in a hurry with a smaller/shorter connector, that one has to go for many reasons including that one.

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